No Real Gay Characters in Bioware?

[Saelune]

But bisexuality is not a choice either.
I would prefer more proper transgendered characters.
Be nice when jokes about transgendered people are something beyond "guy in dress...lol"

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Of course there aren't, the characters are fictional.

But seriously, I don't know, I only know one gay person.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Name me a mentally disabled character in any game ever that's not played for sympathy (and gets better) or laughs.

And there's quite a few of them in the real world.

 

[nobodysoldier25]

I think that everyone is looking at this from the wrong point of view.

It's not that Bioware is saying that sexuality is a choice, and it isn't that Bioware games are about having lots of options, because if that were the case every character in all of their games would be bisexual. We know that not to be true. They have more straight characters than bisexual characters. Someone's obviously getting the short end of the stick on this matter.

The point about Bioware games isn't about them as a company, but about the game industry as a whole. People just don't want gay characters in their games. This thread has proved that. Everyone keeps saying that sexuality doesn't matter to a character or that it isn't important, but then why are almost all of the characters in existence heterosexual. Obviously it mattered enough to make them straight. Why would it matter to make them gay? People are made uncomfortable by what they don't understand, and at least with bisexual characters everyone can identify with as least half, if not all, of the character. When you have a gay character the player might not relate.

Bioware, and companies in general, know this. They know what people want and what people don't want. It's as simple as that. However, that doesn't make it right. Obviously the main character of the Bioware games would be bisexual to give players a choice, but that in no way means that the non-player characters have to be. I'm not saying that having straight or bisexual characters is wrong in any way, but what is wrong with having an exclusively gay character. Gay people have to deal with having people they can't romance. Why can straight people deal with it too? But that is just in the context of role-playing games. And not only that, but having a gay character can make his story different and, thus, more interesting. People don't realize this, but a romance story is completely different if it involves two people of the same sex.

And, I hate to say it, but yes Bioware is basically copping out by making all of their characters bisexual and relatively shallowly so, as opposed to giving them character and integrating their sexuality into that. Being bisexual can have just as much back story as being straight or gay. Let's take Anders for instance from Dragon Age: Awakenings. From almost every possible view point imaginable Anders should have been an exclusively gay character. For heaven's sake his first mission is about saving his boyfriend from the Templars, and, as far as my knowledge goes, there is nothing about ever liking or mentioning women in his story. Would it have been so bad for Anders to have just been gay? Would it have made his character a little more interesting if he had just been gay? Doesn't it make total sense for Anders to be exclusively gay?

The point it, having an exclusively gay character is no different than having an exclusively straight character, and it would be nice if any company could just see that and try to do something new. Taking a chance and doing new thing are what the game industry is all about, or at least what it used to be all about.

I almost forgot...
TL;DR - No there aren't any real gay characters in Bioware games, and that is pretty sad considering the fact that they have bisexual characters. And the gay community shouldn't so much be angry as they should be disappointed that people are so unwilling to have gay characters in there games to the point where they would rather drop sexuality altogether than just have a character be gay.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Rutger Hauer had that blind swordsman role early on, and Daredevil didn't do so bad
A wheelchair bound warrior, that's just one step away from Robot Wars, and most dungeons don't have stairs, it's ramps all the way

Also, WOW rogues with tourette's would be funny, and I know you shouldn't laugh at disability, but it IS funny sometimes.
*stealth* closer...closer "FUCKSTICKS!" - *Aggroes entire enemy army - "oh nooo!"
(In fact, maybe we should all laugh more at disability, so long as we're not mocking the people, only the symptoms and their effects. There's a few disabled 'stand ups' (not doing the obvious gag there) who deal with it well.)

In all sirrusness, I think we SHOULD laugh at disability more. Humor is the best way of coming to terms with something, not treating people special or differernt. Other than a very few TOTAL douchebags* I've known people with any disability just wanna be treated normally this INCLUDES taking the piss occasionally. Doing otherwise is bound to make them feel excluded or differernt. It might just be me but if I meet a new group of people and theyre comfortable enough to take the piss outta me (to my face) I feel accepted.

Little story, I work in a hospital and was talking to someone who'd just had both legs amputated. Without thinking I jsut said "Do you wanna walk to the toilet now?" *awkward silence where we both looked at his stumps then we both burst out laughing*. It was a total accident but it served as a brilliant moment to get rid of any potential awkwardness between us.

*I did once meet some olympic wheelchair racer and she was so far up her own arse it was untrue. Think she was in fact annoyed that I treated her with the same irrevrence I do everyone. Douche.

If you bring up the lack of Jokermance on the Bioware forums there are loads of posts with ''hes a cripple, you would shatter his pelvis lolol'' etc. So terrible. As if people who disabled don't have families and suchlike. The attitude of some people is shocking.

I have a friend who is in a wheelchair who is the worst womanizer I know lol. (Disclaimer: I totally don't condone his actions! )

 

[Wutaiflea]

Looking from an in-game point of view, if you were a male character, and your successfully pull another male character, how would you know how he would react to your character if you were female?

If you're roleplaying gay, why not assume the characters who respond to your advances are also gay? Your character wouldn't have the opportunity to know otherwise in most games with such a choice- fill in the blanks yourself, rather than over-thinking it.

Also, as has been said many times over the last few days, this whole sexuality thing in games is getting ridiculous. I say yay for choice- it's a positive thing- let's leave it at that.

 

[nobodysoldier25]

Looking from an in-game point of view, if you were a male character, and your successfully pull another male character, how would you know how he would react to your character if you were female?

If you're roleplaying gay, why not assume the characters who respond to your advances are also gay? Your character wouldn't have the opportunity to know otherwise in most games with such a choice- fill in the blanks yourself, rather than over-thinking it.

Also, as has been said many times over the last few days, this whole sexuality thing in games is getting ridiculous. I say yay for choice- it's a positive thing- let's leave it at that.

That's the problem though. We shouldn't leave it at that. Leaving it at that is exactly what we shouldn't do. We should make deep characters that matter and not try to please the biggest portion of the fan base all of the time.

Don't call it over thinking. There shouldn't be maybes and filling in the blanks. There should be definite characters with definite characteristics. And, if this continues, what it's saying is it's okay for a character to be heterosexual and bisexual but not homosexual. That isn't fair in the slightest. I know it's kind of an extreme thing to say, but it is true.

 

[The Gnome King]

I've played a lot of Bioware games. Probably all but the very earliest few. One thing I've always enjoyed about them is the romance options are always pretty varied, and keep things interesting. Recently, you've probably noticed a lot of people jumping on either side of the "fire the writers for gay stereotypes" argument, but I'm why people chose to be mad about that when I can't think of any actual "gay" characters in Bioware games. Sure, there are characters who will sleep with an avatar of the same sex, but they'll also sleep with an avatar of the opposite sex; which makes them bi-sexual according to my understanding. Has there ever been a male/female character that will ONLY sleep with a player-character of the same sex in a Bioware game? What are your thoughts on this? Should the gay community be upset about this since it seems to imply that sexuality is completely a choice? What are your thoughts, fellow Escapists?

I'm pleased that they allow Bisexual characters, in all honesty. I'm a bisexual male so it's nice to be represented. That having been said, I would love to see well-written gay or lesbian characters in games.

I don't think it "implies" that sexuality is a choice. For me, I certainly don't have a choice to be bisexual - I have a choice to act on my desires (and I choose to act on them with both men and women) but even if I decided to only sleep with my wife for the rest of my life I'd still be bisexual, which simply means a romantic and sexual attraction to both men and women is part of my soul, if you will.

 

[Wutaiflea]

Looking from an in-game point of view, if you were a male character, and your successfully pull another male character, how would you know how he would react to your character if you were female?

If you're roleplaying gay, why not assume the characters who respond to your advances are also gay? Your character wouldn't have the opportunity to know otherwise in most games with such a choice- fill in the blanks yourself, rather than over-thinking it.

Also, as has been said many times over the last few days, this whole sexuality thing in games is getting ridiculous. I say yay for choice- it's a positive thing- let's leave it at that.

That's the problem though. We shouldn't leave it at that. Leaving it at that is exactly what we shouldn't do. We should make deep characters that matter and not try to please the biggest portion of the fan base all of the time.

Don't call it over thinking. There shouldn't be maybes and filling in the blanks. There should be definite characters with definite characteristics. And, if this continues, what it's saying is it's okay for a character to be heterosexual and bisexual but not homosexual. That isn't fair in the slightest. I know it's kind of an extreme thing to say, but it is true.

I understand that might be true other other types of games- I really do- but the thread, and many of the recent "sexuality in games" threads, are about Bioware games.

Bioware tend not to have a set main character- you might have some building blocks, but essentially, no-one's Jedi, Shepard, Hero of Fereldan or Hawke will be the same.
Because of that, I believe the flexibility and ambiguity needs to be there- the universe needs to adapt to how you've chosen to play the main character. Since the character is open to interpretation, a lot of the character interaction needs to be as well. I believe what they're doing is the best option for everyone involved, and from a roleplaying aspect, you should be able to read it how you like.

In general, yes, maybe more games should have better defined characters representing different races and sexualities, but I don't feel that is necessarily relevant to Bioware and the type of games they create.

 

[Trolldor]

Looking from an in-game point of view, if you were a male character, and your successfully pull another male character, how would you know how he would react to your character if you were female?

If you're roleplaying gay, why not assume the characters who respond to your advances are also gay? Your character wouldn't have the opportunity to know otherwise in most games with such a choice- fill in the blanks yourself, rather than over-thinking it.

Also, as has been said many times over the last few days, this whole sexuality thing in games is getting ridiculous. I say yay for choice- it's a positive thing- let's leave it at that.

That's the problem though. We shouldn't leave it at that. Leaving it at that is exactly what we shouldn't do. We should make deep characters that matter and not try to please the biggest portion of the fan base all of the time.

Don't call it over thinking. There shouldn't be maybes and filling in the blanks. There should be definite characters with definite characteristics. And, if this continues, what it's saying is it's okay for a character to be heterosexual and bisexual but not homosexual. That isn't fair in the slightest. I know it's kind of an extreme thing to say, but it is true.

I understand that might be true other other types of games- I really do- but the thread, and many of the recent "sexuality in games" threads, are about Bioware games.

Bioware tend not to have a set main character- you might have some building blocks, but essentially, no-one's Jedi, Shepard, Hero of Fereldan or Hawke will be the same.
Because of that, I believe the flexibility and ambiguity needs to be there- the universe needs to adapt to how you've chosen to play the main character. Since the character is open to interpretation, a lot of the character interaction needs to be as well. I believe what they're doing is the best option for everyone involved, and from a roleplaying aspect, you should be able to read it how you like.

In general, yes, maybe more games should have better defined characters representing different races and sexualities, but I don't feel that is necessarily relevant to Bioware and the type of games they create.

Actually, a lot of Shepards and a lot of Hawkes will be exactly the same because of the Dialogue wheel.

 

[Wutaiflea]

Looking from an in-game point of view, if you were a male character, and your successfully pull another male character, how would you know how he would react to your character if you were female?

If you're roleplaying gay, why not assume the characters who respond to your advances are also gay? Your character wouldn't have the opportunity to know otherwise in most games with such a choice- fill in the blanks yourself, rather than over-thinking it.

Also, as has been said many times over the last few days, this whole sexuality thing in games is getting ridiculous. I say yay for choice- it's a positive thing- let's leave it at that.

That's the problem though. We shouldn't leave it at that. Leaving it at that is exactly what we shouldn't do. We should make deep characters that matter and not try to please the biggest portion of the fan base all of the time.

Don't call it over thinking. There shouldn't be maybes and filling in the blanks. There should be definite characters with definite characteristics. And, if this continues, what it's saying is it's okay for a character to be heterosexual and bisexual but not homosexual. That isn't fair in the slightest. I know it's kind of an extreme thing to say, but it is true.

I understand that might be true other other types of games- I really do- but the thread, and many of the recent "sexuality in games" threads, are about Bioware games.

Bioware tend not to have a set main character- you might have some building blocks, but essentially, no-one's Jedi, Shepard, Hero of Fereldan or Hawke will be the same.
Because of that, I believe the flexibility and ambiguity needs to be there- the universe needs to adapt to how you've chosen to play the main character. Since the character is open to interpretation, a lot of the character interaction needs to be as well. I believe what they're doing is the best option for everyone involved, and from a roleplaying aspect, you should be able to read it how you like.

In general, yes, maybe more games should have better defined characters representing different races and sexualities, but I don't feel that is necessarily relevant to Bioware and the type of games they create.

Actually, a lot of Shepards and a lot of Hawkes will be exactly the same because of the Dialogue wheel.

Well yeah, there's only so many options dude. I think it's still clear what I'm getting at.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

...It's a romance in a video game. You people are giving it way to much thought.

 

[nobodysoldier25]

Looking from an in-game point of view, if you were a male character, and your successfully pull another male character, how would you know how he would react to your character if you were female?

If you're roleplaying gay, why not assume the characters who respond to your advances are also gay? Your character wouldn't have the opportunity to know otherwise in most games with such a choice- fill in the blanks yourself, rather than over-thinking it.

Also, as has been said many times over the last few days, this whole sexuality thing in games is getting ridiculous. I say yay for choice- it's a positive thing- let's leave it at that.

That's the problem though. We shouldn't leave it at that. Leaving it at that is exactly what we shouldn't do. We should make deep characters that matter and not try to please the biggest portion of the fan base all of the time.

Don't call it over thinking. There shouldn't be maybes and filling in the blanks. There should be definite characters with definite characteristics. And, if this continues, what it's saying is it's okay for a character to be heterosexual and bisexual but not homosexual. That isn't fair in the slightest. I know it's kind of an extreme thing to say, but it is true.

I understand that might be true other other types of games- I really do- but the thread, and many of the recent "sexuality in games" threads, are about Bioware games.

Bioware tend not to have a set main character- you might have some building blocks, but essentially, no-one's Jedi, Shepard, Hero of Fereldan or Hawke will be the same.
Because of that, I believe the flexibility and ambiguity needs to be there- the universe needs to adapt to how you've chosen to play the main character. Since the character is open to interpretation, a lot of the character interaction needs to be as well. I believe what they're doing is the best option for everyone involved, and from a roleplaying aspect, you should be able to read it how you like.

In general, yes, maybe more games should have better defined characters representing different races and sexualities, but I don't feel that is necessarily relevant to Bioware and the type of games they create.

Unfortunately, Bioware doesn't get to be the exception just because they're Bioware. I agree that, without a doubt, all of the Hawkes and Shephards should be bisexual. That's just common sense. But just because he's bisexual that doesn't mean the characters he interacts with should be.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that Bioware has at least gotten more in favor of the same sex relationships with Dragon Age 2, but making every character bisexual is just ridiculous and a little bit unbelievable. Bioware is supposed to be all about story and character development, so they should just try a little harder when they make a character. Having straight, gay, and bi characters isn't restricting the role-playing experience, it's making the characters seem somewhat more believable and real thus enhancing the role-playing experience. Tacking bisexuality on to all of the characters just makes it seem gimmicky and cheap.

 

[Gralian]

You know what you're saying with this statement, right? You're giving ammunition to the 'enraged straight gamer' that was in the news a while back saying that the 'hetereosexual male gamer had not been fully represented' because everyone was pretty much bisexual, among other things. If you're going to say that homosexuals are being misrepresented because everyone is bisexual instead of exclusively sleeping with the same gender, then they fully have the right to complain for the same reason and say that there are no more 'exclusive heterosexual characters' and you end up with a ridiculous bitching competition between straights and gays for no real reason.

Saying you demand Bioware make characters 'exclusively gay' comes across as incredibly petulant. What's the point? So you can say "HAH, now s/he's OURS and you straights CAN'T HAVE HIM/HER! HOW'S THAT FEEL?!"

If you're saying that homosexuality influences the personality of an individual, especially if it's a difference noticeable even when compared to bisexuality, then i think you have some serious issues regarding stereotyping people based on what should be insignificant private details that are only incidental to their character rather than a focal part of their personality and who they are. People should NOT be defined by orientation. I find your stance to be just as bad as the homophobic perspective, because you are placing people into caricature roles based on orientation instead of treating who they choose to have sex with as being a relatively minor detail about their person.

Not to mention video games are and should be about choice. Why should a gay or straight player be locked out of a romance with a particular party member? Maybe they like that party member best of all. I think all the characters should be made to be bisexual, or at least have the option of a romance available with or without the silly sex scene at the end as a reward. The point isn't to say 'woah look everybody in the world is bi!', but the give players that freedom to really connect with their party members on a meaningful and emotional level. Video games aren't produced to be social commentary; it's simply the audience reading far too deeply into something that isn't there or shouldn't even be an issue to begin with.

 

[nobodysoldier25]

...It's a romance in a video game. You people are giving it way to much thought.

It's not just romance in a video game. That kind of thinking that it's just a video game gets us nowhere. It's representing a group of people in a game. When you are a minority and you enjoy a certain medium it's nice to see that the medium you enjoy doesn't alienate and avoid discussing you.

Also don't go to a topic discussing a video game and say that it's just a game. That's kind of counter productive, no offense intended.

 

[Ask a Bi Guy]

Should the gay community be upset about this since it seems to imply that sexuality is completely a choice? What are your thoughts, fellow Escapists?

So you are saying that bisexuality is a choice?

 

[Asuka Soryu]

...It's a romance in a video game. You people are giving it way to much thought.

It's not just romance in a video game. That kind of thinking that it's just a video game gets us nowhere. It's representing a group of people in a game. When you are a minority and you enjoy a certain medium it's nice to see that the medium you enjoy doesn't alienate and avoid discussing you.

Also don't go to a topic discussing a video game and say that it's just a game. That's kind of counter productive, no offense intended.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but to me, it's just two piles of code issuing pre-written text to one another with no real emotional or physical connection. Never capable of accepting or returning ones love, as they are merely code and an A.I. programed to simulate but not to be, life.

 

[Trolldor]

The character's aren't Bisexual in DA2.

Fem Hawke doesn't exist if Male Hawke does.

Admittedly, Anders very much likes the ladies in Awakening, so he's excused, and Isabella openly is...

But that's not the point!

The point of DA2's romances was to allow anyone, playing as either male or female Hawke, to experience the romance of their choice.
There's nothing wrong with that, it's a design sacrifice.
The problem is that the writing is just plain shit.