"No sex please, I'm Gaming!"
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With Mass effect I find it odd (granted Ive played ME 1, and mass effectwikied the other 2). Then again they are all steryoptypes on one end or the other.
2 of the characters are military so there should be some tough rules about that kind of a relationship. i can see the
Screw it we're going to die, lets do it" part, but it seems a little quick. Granted the game from beginning to end might be months of a year in game time, so maybe that's enough to work to that level, but that's a guess.
Its also odd the only Bi/Gay option is girl on girl. Yes the one partner is mono gendered but the other isn't. Bonus points for it being with the nieve nerdy teenage "blue space babe equivalent) girl.
The bi/gay option only with girls again in ME 2.
And while you have a bi option for a male on male, and gay options (one for each gender), there is still 3 more girl on girl options.
SO Mass Effect Developers train of thought: Rule of sexy for the WINNNNNNNN!!!!!!
2 of the characters are military so there should be some tough rules about that kind of a relationship. i can see the
Screw it we're going to die, lets do it" part, but it seems a little quick. Granted the game from beginning to end might be months of a year in game time, so maybe that's enough to work to that level, but that's a guess.
Its also odd the only Bi/Gay option is girl on girl. Yes the one partner is mono gendered but the other isn't. Bonus points for it being with the nieve nerdy teenage "blue space babe equivalent) girl.
The bi/gay option only with girls again in ME 2.
And while you have a bi option for a male on male, and gay options (one for each gender), there is still 3 more girl on girl options.
SO Mass Effect Developers train of thought: Rule of sexy for the WINNNNNNNN!!!!!!
I purposely add/mod in full nude character models/skins to lots of games. And I purposely added/moded in fully animated sex & prostitution mods to Skyrim and New Vegas which I've spent more than 1000+ hours playing with.
What does that tell you about my opinion on sex in games?
What does that tell you about my opinion on sex in games?
To be perfectly honest, I am not sure how you can call the Witcher a good game romance wise, and then be angry at Bioware games.dyre said:
In Bioware games, you are given the OPTION to be with several people, but if you choose one person you are locked in with that person, (Until the sequel), for example, In Mass Effect 1, you can be with Ashley or Liara (Or Kaiden or Liara, depending on Gender).
If you choose Kaiden/Ashley you are locked out from Liara. Yes, Liara is attracted to you, and Ashley/Kaiden are attracted to you, but that is EXTREMELY realistic, throughout a normal person's life you may have dozen of people attracted to you, for some celebrities, millions or billions are. And, further if you don't talk to Ashley/Kaiden or Liara they will not show any interest and you will have no chance with them IIRC.
Come forward to Mass Effect 2, For Male Shepard, you can Romance, Miranda, Jack and Tali, Miranda will give you once chance during a dialogue option, Tali will give you one chance, however Jack (The person who is free with her sexuality) will hold a grudge against even talking to you if you are with Miranda or Tali.
For Female Shepard, you can Romance, Thane, Jacob and Garrus, I will admit I have never played Fem shep in ME2, so I am not sure how it works, I assume about the same as Male Shep, one chance to show you are interested during dialogue, and if you are they respond favorably to it.
For both, you can Romance Kelly Chambers, and Samara Or Morinth (Samara's Daughter), Kelly shows interest in Shepard from the start, Samara sees you as a faithful and good companion, Morinth is a sexual deviant who bonds with nearly anyone. (Which also kills them because she is some kind of Genetic mess up for the Asari)
In ME3, I am not as sure, from my experience if you import a save you can have continue relationships, but as I have never started a fresh ME3 game, I don't know. I know you can romance Steve Cortez if you are male Shepard and that relationship is really.. bad. Not because it is a homosexual relationship, its just horrible how it goes. I suppose Cortez is a little vulnerable about losing his husband, it just feels like he rebounded to fast,
For Fem Shep, I know you can romance Samantha Traynor, again I don't know much about Fem Shep Playthroughs, but I haven't heard nearly as much about Samantha's romancing as I have about Steve Cortez's.
All in all, I wouldn't call Bioware relationships bad, they aren't great, but you do have to consistently talk to people, show that you are interested, and it assumes that THEY have some interest in Shepard because he is a charismatic leader. No you can't give them gifts, but you do get to know them, their backstory, what they want to accomplish, not something out of the realm of possiblities for real life.
You like someone, you talk to them, ask them out, if they say yes, you keep talking to them, if they like you back maybe you agree to go out. The problem with Bioware games is that not long after you reach the agree to go out point, a suicide mission (Ilos, Collector base, etc) is the moment where you have relations with your partner, but I would argue that is normal too, staying with your partner, and comforting them, or relaxing with them right before something stressful, or something that might kill one or both of you, well. Just look at real life, and tell me how many kids have birthdays 9 months after a major event or disaster.
Really hated how they handled fshep in 3 giving her nothing but lesbian options (granted Liara was in it from ME) unless you imported Garrus or Kaiden from either of the past games they deliberately wrote out Jacob for no reason if they kept him as the only male LI for fshep he would've been the most popular he had ever been for only that reason. The problem in ME3s handling was they shafted fshep no new male options and cut out any past ones for retry cuz the lame excuse of budget was invoked.
Personally though I like having a romance option if the series is established the first game as well just kiss and go to black like in Jade Empire that can be just as well and meaningful as going all ME tasteful sex either way it confirms to the viewer your character + this character are in a relationship beyond just being really friendly to each other in normal dialogue.
The conversational aspect of the building up and hopefully that continuation afterwards is the best part making players feel like the world is more alive then what it is and they have a vested interest in preserving the world beyond lots of faceless people are going to die. They can care that their npc friends are in that world and can die but when you give the player an LI or they can pick one for themselves for their hero they have an even bigger reason to save that world because their hero + this person are going to make a future in that world sex scene or not it builds a larger view and a personal stake in the game's outcome.
I agree with this.Casual Shinji said:
The relationships in Persona 4 got to me a lot more than the romances in Mass Effect.
Hell, my favourite character will still always be Garrus, not my love interest.
Hey, atleast for Bioware, the fangirls seem to love 'em, and they turn out some decent fanfic over it. Seems like all I've heard from the Tumblr-based Dragon Age community is "Okay, yeah, gameplay and screenshots are great, but WHO CAN WE ROMANCE BIOWARE?"
And now Cullen's voice actor leaked that Cullen's romancable, and they won't shut up about that. So... I mean, hey, you want more girls in gaming? Because apparently this is what they like.
...Now I am most certainly NOT going to go read fluffy Dragon Age fanfic. Nope. Nuh-uh. Not me. *Cough*
And now Cullen's voice actor leaked that Cullen's romancable, and they won't shut up about that. So... I mean, hey, you want more girls in gaming? Because apparently this is what they like.
Uh... wasn't Jacob, like, the least romanced character out of all the possible options? I seem to recall hearing some statistics on who got romanced the most, and Jacob was at the very bottom. He was a pretty bland character to begin with, and I've heard what romance he did have was awful anyway - worse than usual for Bioware games. I don't think slapping him into the third game would've improved his popularity much.white_wolf said:
...Now I am most certainly NOT going to go read fluffy Dragon Age fanfic. Nope. Nuh-uh. Not me. *Cough*
Those were brilliant, weren't they? I still remember the first time I played the game, I didn't actually realise all the conversations I was having with Jaheira were part of a romance storyline until I learned as much from a faq. It just progresses so much more naturally than romances in most games because you're not constantly initiating the conversation and you don't automatically get new dialogue options between each quest. Hell, on that first playthrough I never actually finished the romance quest and just chalked it up to my character and Jaheira becoming really close friends.dyre said:
Damn it, I want to replay it now.
As somebody in Mass Effect's key demographic, I have to say I like the romance options. My favorite thing about Bioware games is the conversations with your crew. You get to know them as people, and that gives your actions more meaning. You're not just fighting for your team, you're fighting for your love. It's such a popular trope for a reason.
Personally, when I played Mass Effect 1, I thought Tali was the hottest. Shy, insecure alien girl? Sign me up! I ended up with Liara instead, but to be honest I wanted my Shepard with the Quarian.
Imagine how happy I was when I got to romance her in 2. I smiled like a dork at their next post-sex conversation. So that being said, it worked.
I totally get not wanting shallow portrayals of sex in games though. I hate romance in movies. Talk about shallow. I really have no interest in watching a fiction of somebody's sex life.
It's fun escapism in games though, so I see why it's there. I play video games to feel like a bad ass. Why shouldn't my avatar be the object of every woman's desire.
Personally, when I played Mass Effect 1, I thought Tali was the hottest. Shy, insecure alien girl? Sign me up! I ended up with Liara instead, but to be honest I wanted my Shepard with the Quarian.
Imagine how happy I was when I got to romance her in 2. I smiled like a dork at their next post-sex conversation. So that being said, it worked.
I totally get not wanting shallow portrayals of sex in games though. I hate romance in movies. Talk about shallow. I really have no interest in watching a fiction of somebody's sex life.
It's fun escapism in games though, so I see why it's there. I play video games to feel like a bad ass. Why shouldn't my avatar be the object of every woman's desire.
the forced romance is the only problem i had with Beyond: Two Souls... if they left that late-game YOU MUST BE IN LOVE WITH THIS GUY!! bs at the end i would have completely loved the game... even my husband was with me while i was beating the game and yelling with me 'WHY THE FUCK YOU LIKE THIS GUY?!' and this is a man who fails to realize when people are hitting on him, so if its THAT blunt, its THAT bad .-.
Bioware seems to be professionals with this romance thing, if you play one of their games, there's 'romance', though i will say it did seem rather 'forced' in Mass Effect 3 by the end for some odd reason... though Liara does seem like the default love-interest XD she'll be after you no matter what apparently *rolls over laughing* cough... anyway... yea, less 'option' as 'sledgehammer to the face' :3
i don't mind romance in games, as one author i used to read told me once 'all stories are love stories' because really, underneath whatever overarching plot you're reading there's a 'love story' somewhere in it... but i suppose that's also the appeal, its not the MAIN thing, its not SHOVED IN YOUR FACE or shackled to you forcing your character to be in this romance... it was more fun when it was cute and suggested and you could think what you will on the possibilities when you turn the game off, nowadays it does seem like someone's got a bug up their arse to take away what made it good, the subtext, and make it blatant neon lights you're REQUIRED to look at -.- really guys? really? this is NOT how you write a story!!
gods, you people have millions of fans that would write better... well maybe not 'millions', a good maybe hundered or so that could write 'good' alternatives to these forced romance scripts, but even still, the 'millions' could write a bit more subtlety then when i've been seeing, and that's not even the 'good' stuff...
romance is a driving force in life as it is in all stories, yes, this makes sense, but godbedamned what happened to doing it bloody right! if you're not going to do it right, don't do it at all -.-
suppose what i mean is... yea, they've kinda been fucking up the romance in games lately... too obvious,forced, or just making not a lick of sense, that its just insanity... go back to the good ol' games that did this shenanigans right and take notes...
on a funny sidenote, my Shep 'technically' didn't end up with anyone either, though for her it ended up she was apparently a very dumb hopeless romantic (i wasn't 'trying' to romance anyone just going with the flow) and she'd basically get to the point of nearly sleeping with everyone only to say something at apparently turned them off too bad (like punching Garrus XD) while all epic failures, i found this hilarious, and by the end of ME3 where Liara's basically default-LI i was like "aww... poor Liara, having to take Shep that no one wanted" XD to each their own i suppose~
Bioware seems to be professionals with this romance thing, if you play one of their games, there's 'romance', though i will say it did seem rather 'forced' in Mass Effect 3 by the end for some odd reason... though Liara does seem like the default love-interest XD she'll be after you no matter what apparently *rolls over laughing* cough... anyway... yea, less 'option' as 'sledgehammer to the face' :3
i don't mind romance in games, as one author i used to read told me once 'all stories are love stories' because really, underneath whatever overarching plot you're reading there's a 'love story' somewhere in it... but i suppose that's also the appeal, its not the MAIN thing, its not SHOVED IN YOUR FACE or shackled to you forcing your character to be in this romance... it was more fun when it was cute and suggested and you could think what you will on the possibilities when you turn the game off, nowadays it does seem like someone's got a bug up their arse to take away what made it good, the subtext, and make it blatant neon lights you're REQUIRED to look at -.- really guys? really? this is NOT how you write a story!!
gods, you people have millions of fans that would write better... well maybe not 'millions', a good maybe hundered or so that could write 'good' alternatives to these forced romance scripts, but even still, the 'millions' could write a bit more subtlety then when i've been seeing, and that's not even the 'good' stuff...
romance is a driving force in life as it is in all stories, yes, this makes sense, but godbedamned what happened to doing it bloody right! if you're not going to do it right, don't do it at all -.-
suppose what i mean is... yea, they've kinda been fucking up the romance in games lately... too obvious,forced, or just making not a lick of sense, that its just insanity... go back to the good ol' games that did this shenanigans right and take notes...
on a funny sidenote, my Shep 'technically' didn't end up with anyone either, though for her it ended up she was apparently a very dumb hopeless romantic (i wasn't 'trying' to romance anyone just going with the flow) and she'd basically get to the point of nearly sleeping with everyone only to say something at apparently turned them off too bad (like punching Garrus XD) while all epic failures, i found this hilarious, and by the end of ME3 where Liara's basically default-LI i was like "aww... poor Liara, having to take Shep that no one wanted" XD to each their own i suppose~
Hey look, I loved Mass Effect as much as the next fan. Just yesterday I listed the series as one of a small handful of games that I truly felt privileged to have experienced in my lifetime. But the "romance" aspect is just silly escapist fantasy the same way harem animes are.Cecilo said:
You're a ship commander and just about every member of your crew of the appropriate sexual orientation just happens to be romantically interested in you? Good God, even a hypothetical situation involving Captain Kirk on a ship entirely staffed by females wouldn't get those percentages.
And yet, that's not what turned me off with the romances. What annoyed me the most was how so painfully mechanical the romances were, especially compared to excellent romances found in Baldur's Gate 2 and to a lesser extent KOTOR (and before you accuse me of nostalgia, I thought Mass Effect was an overall superior game to KOTOR). They're so clearly going through the motions that everything about the romance options seems like a giant checklist. Male romances, female romances, gay romances, bi romances, check check check check. Between every mission, go talk to each party member and run through their conversations, check check check. Each character has a loyalty quest, check check check. Each characters' conversation progression has identical stages: you meet them, have them spill their life stories, check check. Then you have the option of indicating that you want a romance, check. Hell, if you don't do it, Joker or Traynor will tell you that the person is waiting below deck to speak with you...are they glued to their part of the spaceship or something? Run through a few more conversations and you've earned your sex scene! It's like they wrote all their characters to the same damn template.
It also doesn't help that there's not a single casual conversation to be found in the whole game (other than ones involving Joker). Surely Bioware understands that friends, whether platonic or romantic, generally revolve most of their conversations around friendly, unimportant banter? Not every conversation has to be directly relevant to the advancement of a potential romance ("so, why don't you tell me half of your tragic backstory now, and then tell me the other half after we do this next mission? We will have no other conversation in the meantime.").
I did like how they handled Liara throughout the series though.
Oh, and The Witcher is an awful game romance-wise. But at least it doesn't really take itself seriously. The Witcher 2 is the one I like.
Not really. In Mass Effect 2, if you are consistently paragon, you will end up with all the women on your ship trying to get kinky with you. That is because, in Mass Effect, being nice to someone automatically meant looking for sex... During my full paragon playthrough, I was able to pick and choose who I was going to have sex with minutes before the Omega relay, because they were all pretty much available and one option away from romancing. If I would save spam, I could literally end up with every single romantic interest simply because I always chose paragon...sanquin said:
At least in Dragon Age, you had to vary the answers to be friendly with everyone, and being too friendly with some people would rule you out as a romantic interest with
ugh... they lost the opportunity for that with me... he shoulda been romancable for female-mage in DA:O -.-Saetha said:
and sure you're not...
but as for the other bits about F!Shep's romances... yea, they kinda lame in comparison to M!Shep... kinda see why ME3 had basically all lezzy-options, only by then it was too late, not like F!Shep could romance Jack or Tali, only some new chick, some other new chick, Vega (i think?), possibly Garrus, and of course Liara... slim pickin's .-.
ME2 kinda set it in stone F!Shep had it bad off... Garrus (Not bad but a Turian/non-same-genetically-compatible-sci-fi-mumbo-jumbo... rashes apparently are involved), Thane (apparently there's a mention if you read some of the stuff that Drell secrete a poisonous substance on their skin, like those hallucinogen toads... yay?) and Jacob... seriously he's like the culmination of all bad human sterotypes in one (Black guy with daddy issues... really?? just really?) hell i was HOPPING to go for Mordin as he seemed the least worst option, but nope, can't, like can't romance Wrex in ME1 -.-
what does M!Shep get? hot-chick, homicidal-hot-chick, and Tali... all perfectly viable options with no biological issues whatsoever (except maybe Tali but even then its more on her end and not 'his' -.-)
is it bad i was HAPPY to have Liara back for all of a second thanks to DLC in ME2... there's a reason my Shep was a hopeless romantic XD
and you couldn't fully romance Samara (i tried) just kinda rebuffs you and perma-friendzones you... and her daughter would KILL YOU if you tried for a happy ending... so yea... F!Shep romances sucked~
and don't get me started on ME1, save Liara in her adorable, androgynous, alien-picking-ness, those two sucked...
I think romance in general is handled poorly in just about every medium, not just games. I HATE love-triangles (the only one I actually think works great is Phantom of the Opera), "romance" novels tend to just be written porn, and Hollywood films and pop songs (from the entire past century, not just recently) use pop-fantasy portrayals of relationships rather than real ones.
I love Mass Effect, and didn't terribly mind the romancing thing, but when I actually went through the whole trilogy from start to finish (once I got 3 w/EC I started the entire series all over with my Shephard), I did so without any romance. I've been wanting to go back and do it again with a romance with Liara (Shephard's a lesbian in my mind, largely reinforced by the dialogue with Ashley in the third game), but haven't found time, yet.
I WILL point out, however, that I did play from the first game up to the halfway point of the second game with male Shephard (or Shepman as I call him). When I played the first game, I romanced Ashley. In the second game,
I thought that was very well-handled, all things considered.
To be honest, it's kind of why I'm interested in trying out Catherine. Yeah, I understand Vincent in that game is an insufferable coward of a character, but the setup at least sounds interesting, at least compared to what we generally get in games, primarily insofar as real life relationships actually require effort to maintain.
...and now I really have to play Baldur's Gate... and Planescape: Torment, come to think of it.
I love Mass Effect, and didn't terribly mind the romancing thing, but when I actually went through the whole trilogy from start to finish (once I got 3 w/EC I started the entire series all over with my Shephard), I did so without any romance. I've been wanting to go back and do it again with a romance with Liara (Shephard's a lesbian in my mind, largely reinforced by the dialogue with Ashley in the third game), but haven't found time, yet.
I WILL point out, however, that I did play from the first game up to the halfway point of the second game with male Shephard (or Shepman as I call him). When I played the first game, I romanced Ashley. In the second game,
she basically breaks up with you after 1. thinking you were dead for 2 years and suddenly you're back and 2. you're working with what amounts to a terrorist group. When the dialogue option appeared to explain how it went to Joker, even though my character was primarily paragon, I chose the lower options because he was understandably upset.
To be honest, it's kind of why I'm interested in trying out Catherine. Yeah, I understand Vincent in that game is an insufferable coward of a character, but the setup at least sounds interesting, at least compared to what we generally get in games, primarily insofar as real life relationships actually require effort to maintain.
...and now I really have to play Baldur's Gate... and Planescape: Torment, come to think of it.
He was only the least popular because like I said fshep ruined it via her come hither lines she was aggressive since the second conversation you can literately talk to him once normally then she's off! He wasn't bland though he was the only normal guy in the whole game even with his daddy issues he didn't care if you didn't helped him didn't need shep to solve anything and he already had the backstory similar to sheps saved the council and did secret missions and all that. Players wanted to know him but fsheps horrid lines turned them off fast.Saetha said:
I'm just saying they wrote hm out they shoehorned in a baby mommy for him for no reason if you romanced him his baby mommy came in and you couldn't be upset you had to be like, cool I thought we might still get together after my 6 months in jail but you moved on and I'm good with that. If they would've kept him busy saving people but still able to romance her, kept her cougar out of it, he probably would've been popular if for nothing else he was at least your import LI or the only male in the game to be romanced not the best situation but him, Garrus, Kaiden all had nothing but budget as to why they the could've been options w/o adding anyone new.
Yeah, Jaheira's conversation progression is especially excellent. I too had no idea that my character's conversation with her would eventually lead to a romance; honestly I liked her husband Khalid (who was in BG1 with Jaheira but died at the intro of BG2) so if she started hitting on me Mass-Effect style I probably would have ignored that romance option altogether. But the game does a great job of presenting the romance as the natural progression of a lengthy friendship and it just felt right to enter a relationship with her by the time it was available (which was quite late in the game). I also like how a number of conversations you have with her are totally irrelevant to having a romance (for example there are a few conversations about her philosophy of moral "balance" or neutrality), and are rather simply an exchange of thoughts between friends.Anachronism said:
By the way, if you ever do replay BG2, make sure you download some player-made conversation mods; BG2 does a handful of party NPCs really, really well, but they sort of slack off with other NPCs, who have much fewer conversations, so the mods correct that.
I like a nice simple romance in a video game because it's escapism, we all have our own ideas on what a perfect romance is and chances are that vision for most people is completely impossible in real life.
Full on sex scenes in movies makes me feel awkward, and a few games have managed that level of awkwardness, so it's not like i'm actively trying to get the love making on with other characters in games, but a simple easy love interest fills a gap which real life can't match. If you made a realistic romance in a game it would be awful.
Full on sex scenes in movies makes me feel awkward, and a few games have managed that level of awkwardness, so it's not like i'm actively trying to get the love making on with other characters in games, but a simple easy love interest fills a gap which real life can't match. If you made a realistic romance in a game it would be awful.
I kinda liked Kaidan, to be honest, granted that may be because of all that fluffy fanfic I most certainly do NOT read. A lot of fanfic turns him into a sexy badass. Or so I heard. From a friend. A distant one.Ikasury said:
Other than that... meh, I think all the Mass Effect romances were kinda... bad. I feel like MShep's romances were also a lot more shallow, even if MShep had a greater oppurtunity to, uh... sow his oats. And that's saying something - I mean, FemShep's romances aren't exactly Jane Austen. But at least there was a liiiitle more depth than "See this hot chick? You get to bang her. Done."
yes... :3 FF games have always had a 'subplot' of romance, and as cheesy/silly as Tidus and Yuna's bumbling romance is, i feel it is when FF finally got it right... then they seemed to forget afterwards but, whatever...FootloosePhoenix said:
that was my only 'problem' with P3 as well... just the fact that at some point you're suddenly 'boyfriend' with no choice in the matter... and it didn't exactly make sense for some of the females (Mitsuru?) personality wise, so it was just kinda weird that BAM!! you're boyfriend and once you've finished social link... no one seems to remember that relationship? P4 did make this better with there being a rather blunt 'choice' option, if still a bit silly/ham-fisted SMT way of going about the social link stuff :3 at least the referred back to it with the christmas event XDFootloosePhoenix said:
suppose if there was something to stand opposite bioware's take on romance in games, SMT/Persona would be it XD