"No sex please, I'm Gaming!"

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I've never seen a good romance system in a game and Mass Effect is no different. All it would take to be decent would be massive branching dialogue trees that explore possibilities other than having sex and being given the cold shoulder. You can't just hang around squadmates. Once you've exhausted their dialogue it's like "Well, that's enough of that" and the character ceases to be interesting at all. Naturally, the dialogue has to stop somewhere, but how about the dialogue is streamlined more into the game so you're getting it throughout a playthrough and the natural thing is to do another playthrough to explore more dialogue rather than talking to everyone all the time?

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Sex in gaming is stupid. You can never build a proper relationship etc in a game.Its just say whatever is nice and then sleep with character. Its meaningless. Though i like that Bioware tries and i hope they build on to this more. I think games build friendship better than sexual relationships. Friendship is fighting through problems and sharing issues. Falling in love etc is more difficult to make in a game. We have all played games and feel connected to a character and you dont want them to die. You want to protect them, like with the Lara game. But with love, no that just cant happen, its difficult to make a gamer love a character.

You know, it's embarrassing as hell to admit this, but I'm going to go ahead: I cried when

Spoiler

Alistair dumped me after the Landsmeet because I was a) a mage and b) an elf and that just wasn't going to be A-OK with his new role as King. Even though he said he still loved me and all of that - he did it in front of all of our friends in that horrible little room and I just felt awful about it because I really was attached to my character being with him through this whole ordeal and it came out of no where for me because I played completely unspoiled and it was my first game.

I ran to the Internet to try to find a way to make the outcome different. I ranted and I was so upset about this being my first game and how far into it I was that I was committed to the outcome I was stuck with. My fiancé thought I was nuts lol but it really got to me because those feelings - no, I wasn't personally in love with that character - I'm in love with my fiancé obviously not some digital pixel thing, but my character was totally in love with that other character and I felt for her -on her behalf I was upset and I was upset that, as her overlord/director/whatever you consider it - I couldn't make a better outcome for the situation.

And for the record, not that I personally think this is a factor but I can anticipate the comments having been around here awhile now, I was a grown adult 29 year old woman at that time. It just got right to the feels for me. Partly because I let it - I mean, as an interactive medium, games only have the power we endow them with to impact our thinking and feeling - and partly because it was just really an odd twist that you wouldn't expect, even though it fit with the world pretty perfectly and had a full sense of legitimacy.

I freaked out again, in that same game when

Spoiler

Alistar up and died for me because I rejected having him sleep with Morigan (If I couldn't be with him the night before we left to die I sure the hell wasn't going to send her to sleep with him) to make the Dark Baby thing and he was all "I love you" right before he went off to deliver the final blow. I was like - no, let me go die I have nothing to live for anyway oh my various gods you're supposed to be King why the hell have we been miserable up to now if you were going to do this?!" lol @ myself a bit

 

[RevRaptor]

It's also bad writing, as human relationships are more complicated then "you can shoot things good, so we should bone." Saints Row 4's parody of this was brilliant.

100% brilliant!

You: "Hey Kinzie, wanna fuck?"

Kinzie: "Let's do this!"

The sheer ridiculousness of SR4's relationship system couldn't have been more perfect for that game.

Makes me laugh every time. I liked the Asha one the best the expression on your characters face when she agrees is priceless.
Saints Row 4's parody of everything was spot on the stabby murder box had me laughing so hard I had to pause

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

It certainly doesn't help that Mass Effect's "romances" are absolutely cringe-inducing shit. It is possible to do a no "romance" run though. You just have to be a bit careful around the potential "romance" partners. Be careful what you say, and you should be okay.

As far as sex goes, I think it depends on how it's handled. I'm currently playing Fallout 2, and sex is a big trait for my character. His backstory obviously has him living in a boring, backwater village his whole life. So now he's eventually out and exploring the world, and the many joys it contains. He's drinking, maybe trying a drug here and there and, of course, fucking. Back in that village of his, he probably never got any. Now, he can, if he has the cash. Not only has it added a gameplay challenge, due to it being an expensive habit in the early game, but it's added to his ignorant character who is getting slowly caught up in things that are over his head. He is now a sex addict, fucking and drinking all night whenever he finds himself in New Reno (since he gets pussy for free) and can find himself in trouble if a good looking woman so much as flirts with him. This isn't shallow at all, but actual character growing and, as said, an addition to gameplay due to funding the habit (though once you're a gangster, it becomes far less costly).

Something like that, I find is a good way to handle sex. If it adds something to the character or the gameplay. Mass Effect tries to make them emotional, loving relationships and that doesn't work if the ultimate goal is to get laid. At least in the Fallout games, and in the Witcher, there is no pretension and emotional failures. We all know full well what is going on. It separates the relationships (with Triss or Shani) from the more casual sexual encounters, and doesn't try to shoehorn everything into all lovey-dovey "romance". While some dislike it, I think it's handled quite well. But then, I have a very calm and laid back attitude when it comes to sex and sexuality, so maybe it's just me.

 

[Brennan]

IMO one of the complications with Mass Effect series is how the text of the dialog prompts doesn't match the actual dialog you get when you pick them. The writers tried to make the prompts sort of paraphrased micro-summaries of the dialog, but the way they word them often leaves way too much open to interpretation in terms of emphasis. You can pick a dialog option that looks to you like the calm response, for example, only to have Shep surprise you by delivering an angry rant.

I think this creates an odd situation where how natural the dialog feels depends not on the literal text, but on whether or not the player's own personality just happens to be similar enough to the devs' in arbitrary ways so that they will intuitively project the same emphasis into a given phrasing.

For someone who's personality doesn't synch with the devs', the tone of the prompt texts are completely unreliable. If it weren't for the fact prompts are always grouped in the same places around the wheel according to paragon/renegade and severity, the dialogs in Mass Effect would often be unnavigable without save scumming for many people. This in turn both limits the range of possible emphasis (the slot for a given emphasis has to be exclusively consistent, and there are only so many slots on the wheel), and obviates the actual utility of prompt texts outside of question/investigation responses (they could be color-coded dots or symbols, or even just plain hash marks, and it would serve the same function with less confusion).

Basically it's the same sort of thing as the old "sarcasm/humor is hard to convey on the internet" problem, but in a video game.

Contrast Deus Ex:HR, which uses the exact same dialog system, but each prompt text is literally the first sentence of the actual dialog, which is much clearer and more reliable (and allows the Devs to be more flexible in how they place/group things on the wheel, which in turn allows them to do responses that are more varied than just 2-4 universal attitude categories).

While I'm on the side of "Mass Effect's romances are clunky, forced, and fakey", I suspect the above may have a hand in why some people do find them more natural, or at least more forgivable. I hypothesize that how intuitively reliable the prompts are for a given player may either enhance or soften how clunky the conversations feel.

 

[EyeReaper]

I'm sorry, but I noticed Persona getting mentioned a few times and wanted to chip in there. I, myself, haven't played them, mind, but I have watched videos of 3: FES and 4 Golden. What jumps out at me in particular in Golden, specifically, is that whoever you ultimately go with never factors into the main story. I mean the options in your party for the record, as the ones like Ai are even worse but that's for another time. Take that festival incident with Teddie for example. Say you romanced Chie, for example, wouldn't she opt to go with the mc rather than the pretty boy who spends most of his time in a fucking bear costume? And this stuff just keeps happening. Yes there are those date moments in the main story but they are just filler with zero relevance to the actual plot with the murders and shit and you don't need to do them with anyone. I mean Christ in Golden's True Ending, I would have thought the person you went with would be ecstatic at the player character's return to Inaba, but again, nothing. I'm not asking for much, just some kind of acknowledgement in the main plot that you romanced another character. Keep in mind, this isn't just a problem with Persona as every game I've seen with romance options falls into this trap.

I think I'll cut it here because I've run out of things to say.

To be fair to Persona, after the story mandated scenes, there are usually scenes that follow up them that are romance specific. To use your festival example, on the first day Chie will get roped in to spending the day with Teddie, but the next day of the festival will net the MC and Chie together on a date. Besides, no one can turn down Teddie's charm, man or woman.

But anyways, OT: I never really cared about the relationship values in most games, especially in games like the Bioware ones because, really, well, they aren't a core mechanic, they're a footnote. Extra fluff that, if missing, no one would care too much.
Unless of course we're talking about Dating Sims, in which case the character's writing/relationship is the most essential thing, being the point of the game and all. And I would say that, overall, they handle it much better than the stuff of Bioware... usually.

 

[scorptatious]

This is what I hated about Persona 3. You were basically forced to cheat on your love interest if you wanted to expericane the entire game and unlock everything. Then the game would try to make you feel bad about it. It's like "wait a minute, you mean there are players who may NOT want to cheat on their girlfriend?" It made me mad, since I basically missed out on finishing every female social link except for Yukari.

Yeah, kinda glad they allowed you to pursue multiple social links and choose not to cheat in Persona 4.

Plus from what I've read, in P3P, you can play as a female protagonist, and you don't have to worry about cheating on potential love interests as her.

snip

As much as I do enjoy the romance sub-plots in P4G, I do agree that it would have been nice if they acknowledged your relationship in the main story.

Although technically they do for one in the golden epilogue:

Spoiler

If you romanced Marie, she announces her love for you over the Weather Channel.

Of course, I've always liked to think that the MC and the girl you go out with kept their relationship a secret from their friends. I mean, if you chose to date multiple girls, they don't find out until Valentine's Day or (from what I've read, as I've never experienced these scenes. So don't quote me on this) you get caught by them on one of your Sunday dates.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Really hated how they handled fshep in 3 giving her nothing but lesbian options (granted Liara was in it from ME) unless you imported Garrus or Kaiden from either of the past games they deliberately wrote out Jacob for no reason if they kept him as the only male LI for fshep he would've been the most popular he had ever been for only that reason. The problem in ME3s handling was they shafted fshep no new male options and cut out any past ones for retry cuz the lame excuse of budget was invoked.

I agree; I mean I played Space!Lesbian Shep but that's because A) I basically fell in love with Liara at first sight in ME1 and B) I'm that kind of juvenile gamer.


But Fem!Shep got the fucking shaft like nothing else in ME3. You had have liked Kaiden (a big ask in and of itself); or romanced Garrus to get anything meaningful. Thane fans knew what they were getting into and at least his death and the scenes referencing are appropriately done, but they could have easily made Jacob not cheat on you (so fucking weak) and that little mission could have been a beautiful little spot for Shep. Shit I can even think of halfway decent dialogue for the whole thing

-Paragon Interrupt-Shepard hugs Jacob in the medbay

Shepard: "I missed you"

Jacob: "Me too, but you're pressing on my bullet wound"

Dr. Cole: "Jacob told me the woman he loved was worth waiting for, I see what he meant now"

Their Citadel date could have been them both helping out with kids and playing arcade games together:

Shepard: "So, you want one of these in our house?"

Jacob: "Hell yeah. We share a lot of scars; the Collectors, the Reapers. But this - nothing but smiles, and I want things like that around"


And they could have made Vega the new hetero romance option, especially since he was (surprisingly) well crafted and managed to play himself off as a rather charming rogue that Shep could get one over on.

 

[Phasmal]

Hey, atleast for Bioware, the fangirls seem to love 'em, and they turn out some decent fanfic over it. Seems like all I've heard from the Tumblr-based Dragon Age community is "Okay, yeah, gameplay and screenshots are great, but WHO CAN WE ROMANCE BIOWARE?"

And now Cullen's voice actor leaked that Cullen's romancable, and they won't shut up about that. So... I mean, hey, you want more girls in gaming? Because apparently this is what they like.

Damn straight. I want me some more sexy elf boys. Bring on the girl-pocalypse of gaming.
I do love the Bioware romances (ok, ok, the Dragon Age ones. The ME ones were dull- why can't I romance Joker?!).
It's pretty much something only Bioware does in their little Bioware way, so I enjoy it. Other games occasionally have romances but they don't have the same feel to it.

I also enjoy cracking skulls open, but I already have a ton of games in which I can do that.

 

[Sack of Cheese]

I don't know what to feel about this, but... complaints about having an OPTION in a game?!

Holy creamy cow! Seriously, everyone should know that not every game has to cater to their very specific taste, right? If people enjoy a specific gameplay, great! Let them. If it means getting more people into the game industry, double great! Different people enjoy different things.

Why are some people so against "love"? What's wrong with having a little affection here and there in a game? You care more about the characters, then you'd care more about the world they're living in. That'd be much more immersive.

In all seriousness, in the majority of AAA games, the only "physical" interaction with NPCs seem to be to attack them.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

Different developers/games seem to have different approaches

Bioware: Here are a bunch of unsubtle, oversimplified, mediocre romances. Just routinely stop by between each mission to say things your partner wants to hear and perhaps shower him/her with gifts, and eventually you'll be rewarded with a hilariously awkward PG-13 sex scene!
...
Does anyone remember how wonderfully well-written and touching the Baldur's Gate 2 romances were? No isometric sex scenes necessary, just good character development and a natural (sometimes even rocky) progression in a relationship. What happened, Bioware?

Bethesda: Do a quest for the NPC, then ask them to marry. Now you have a useless NPC sitting around your house, ready to interrupt you every time you run into your house to drop off loot / pick up supplies!

CD Projekt: Witcher 1: Fuck everyone you see, but hey, at least the sex is slightly less awkward.
Witcher 2: You're friends with benefits with Triss. Don't like it? Well, give her a rose and you can be lovers
To be honest, I liked Witcher 2's take on romance. You're in an established relationship and are too busy to be going after other women. None of that "the world is your harem" attitude found in so many other RPGs. Plus, I like Triss' character and had no problem getting into a roleplaying state of mind in which I very much wanted to rescue her and kick Letho's ass.

Peter Molyneux: Haven't played the Fable series so I don't know how it works in that game. Can anyone fill me in?
edit: I've been suitably informed. Thanks all!

Overall I agree with you. Bioware romances are meh, an amusing sideshow at best. I don't know why Bethesda even bothers. I like the Witcher 2 as it deemphasizes the "chase" and concentrates more on the friendship/relationship.

I really couldn't agree more with you there.

I really enjoyed Witcher 2's take on romance as well and I prefer it way more than the clishee romances that Bioware tends to have in their RPG's.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Play Saya no Uta. Romance of the century.

 

[Saetha]

Hey, atleast for Bioware, the fangirls seem to love 'em, and they turn out some decent fanfic over it. Seems like all I've heard from the Tumblr-based Dragon Age community is "Okay, yeah, gameplay and screenshots are great, but WHO CAN WE ROMANCE BIOWARE?"

And now Cullen's voice actor leaked that Cullen's romancable, and they won't shut up about that. So... I mean, hey, you want more girls in gaming? Because apparently this is what they like.

Damn straight. I want me some more sexy elf boys. Bring on the girl-pocalypse of gaming.
I do love the Bioware romances (ok, ok, the Dragon Age ones. The ME ones were dull- why can't I romance Joker?!).
It's pretty much something only Bioware does in their little Bioware way, so I enjoy it. Other games occasionally have romances but they don't have the same feel to it.

I also enjoy cracking skulls open, but I already have a ton of games in which I can do that.

Bleh. Sexy elf boys. As in plural. As in Zevran. Bleeeeeh.

I never liked Zevran - those types of hedonist characters that sleep around just never really appeal to me. I dislike Isabela for the same reason. Alistair, though... mmm. That boy's damn fine. Fenris is alright, too. I think I would've liked him better if he were in a different game. Being in DA 2, he just seemed like he was there to be a mouthpiece for why mages are evil. It made him come off as shallow to me. If he'd been an Origins companion... well, I'd still probably go with Alistair, but I'd be leagues more conflicted about it.

And yeah, the romances in ME are... bad. I go with Kaidan mostly because I'm too lazy to do a replay of the first game, so I always import the file where he was romanced (That and, as stated previously, fanfic turns him into a sexy badass so that may skew my perceptions a little). But I tried out the others in ME2 and they all felt so bare-boned. The DA romances may not be the pinnacle of fine literature, but atleast they felt a little more involved. Which is a shame - I really feel like Thane's could've been great if, well, if Mass Effect was less about killing space Cthulhu and more about fawning over hunky guys.

Bah, look at me getting all dewey-eyed over boys. I think I need to go bash some templar skulls in.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Does anyone remember how wonderfully well-written and touching the Baldur's Gate 2 romances were? No isometric sex scenes necessary, just good character development and a natural (sometimes even rocky) progression in a relationship. What happened, Bioware?

I actually really liked both Viconia's and Jaheria's. In the case of the latter, it honestly seemed like the natural progression of the protagonist's relationship with her following the death of her husband. The first time I went through it, I wasn't even aware I was on the romance path until a few dozen talks on the subject and most of my responses were chosen on the basis of friendship rather than trying to get into her pants. Viconia's on the other hand was one you actively had to work at and the relationship itself always seemed incredibly strained but was written in a fairly believable sort of way. She wanted to despise you and look down upon you simply because you were male but eventually she actually grows to respect you and even like you and she ends up hating herself for the weakness.

I guess what I liked about those two in particular is that they were fairly nuanced and rocky and like normal human relationships were not simply a linear progression to sexy times. Hell, more than once you end up in fairly vicious arguments with Viconia and Jaheria constantly tries to pick fights with you during most of the relationship.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I really enjoyed Witcher 2's take on romance as well and I prefer it way more than the clishee romances that Bioware tends to have in their RPG's.

I actually thought it was even sillier than Bioware's to be honest as, in most cases at least, it was literally just a reward for services rendered. In one case it happens because you treat a female warrior like a warrior rather than simply a woman. In others you literally just pay a small price in gold. In still others it is literally your reward for completing a small quest. Most of the sex in the game is trivialized to the point that it is simply used as a commodity.

Unless you were referring to the actual romances rather than just the instances that lead to sex. If we're just discussing those then yeah, they were pretty great.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Well, there's the problem... These "romances" are not about romance, but about getting to the money shot. That moment where all that talk finally pays off, and you get into his/her pants/panties.

Bioware is ofcourse the king with this. Even going as far as having a character who is allergic to everything, take off her helmet so you can make out with her. A kiss could put her in the hospital, but fuck it, let's do it anyway. We can't create a relationship without consummation, right?

The best relationships in games are the ones that are not romantic, because then it'll be specifically designed to build up to the sex scene.

Despite that I really like Tali and she's the one I always went for in ME ... I can't lie. It is immersion breaking.

For example, that line with the kiss sending her to the hospital made me very cautious with Tali. When I said it was to dangerous and she can't engage with me... she got extremely butthurt (though she did handle it maturely). Not understanding why we couldn't continue our relationship, I decided to risk it.

Then came sex. Out of nowhere. What could of been touching with Shepard just hugging Tali without her gloves on or even without the helmet- suddenly she plunges at me and makes out, with the obvious sex-fading out black screen. Only to find out that all she got was a flu, but handled it without worry.

.... I'm sorry, what?

... Are you telling me that you got me so worked up and worried about killing you off by touching you, that I tried everything to make sure you wouldn't be harmed but it turns out I could stick my wood inside and you'd just get a small flu?
Why would a kiss send you into the hospital over love making? Heck, STD's are mostly caused by sex and if Shepard god dang had em, would you be fine regardless? (over the top example is over the top).

But yeah, it could of been dealt with better, and had way more impact if they took it really slow by Shepard holding Tali's hands without the gloves or something. I agree with the OP that Liara really tries to be with you even when you friendzone her in ME3.

Tali's the only one I ever romance. :x

Though Tali did lots of prepping. Immunoboosters, antibiotics, the works. She's all hopped up on dem drugs, if I recall correctly. Shepard, on the other hand...I can't say, for him. He's in the same getup you put him in before all of this happens, so it's hard to say whether he took precautions as well. I'd like to say he did but the game doesn't make it seem like he did. I half agree with you that it makes no sense.

Honestly, I don't like how most of the romances even happen in the Mass Effect series. I like talking to my companions between missions. I did it in Dragon Age: Origins, I did it in Dragon Age II and I did it in Mass Effect 1/2/3. Then they all decide they want a slice of Shepard pie and the way Shepard declines always makes me feel like a total asshole. Like, I can't say I'm not interested. I have to be an asshole about it.

Personally, I think Steve Cortez was the best handled romance option. When it comes time to choose whether to activate the romance with him or not, you get the option of being friends or being more. You can choose to make a move and start a relationship, or choose not to make a move he understands. He doesn't give whiny dialogue if you decide not to romance him, he doesn't get all upset about it, he doesn't go on making me feel like an absolute asshole for not being interested. Actually, I think he's just a really well done character; easily one of my favorites in Mass Effect 3.

 

[white_wolf]

Really hated how they handled fshep in 3 giving her nothing but lesbian options (granted Liara was in it from ME) unless you imported Garrus or Kaiden from either of the past games they deliberately wrote out Jacob for no reason if they kept him as the only male LI for fshep he would've been the most popular he had ever been for only that reason. The problem in ME3s handling was they shafted fshep no new male options and cut out any past ones for retry cuz the lame excuse of budget was invoked.

I agree; I mean I played Space!Lesbian Shep but that's because A) I basically fell in love with Liara at first sight in ME1 and B) I'm that kind of juvenile gamer.


But Fem!Shep got the fucking shaft like nothing else in ME3. You had have liked Kaiden (a big ask in and of itself); or romanced Garrus to get anything meaningful. Thane fans knew what they were getting into and at least his death and the scenes referencing are appropriately done, but they could have easily made Jacob not cheat on you (so fucking weak) and that little mission could have been a beautiful little spot for Shep. Shit I can even think of halfway decent dialogue for the whole thing

-Paragon Interrupt-Shepard hugs Jacob in the medbay

Shepard: "I missed you"

Jacob: "Me too, but you're pressing on my bullet wound"

Dr. Cole: "Jacob told me the woman he loved was worth waiting for, I see what he meant now"

Their Citadel date could have been them both helping out with kids and playing arcade games together:

Shepard: "So, you want one of these in our house?"

Jacob: "Hell yeah. We share a lot of scars; the Collectors, the Reapers. But this - nothing but smiles, and I want things like that around"


And they could have made Vega the new hetero romance option, especially since he was (surprisingly) well crafted and managed to play himself off as a rather charming rogue that Shep could get one over on.

See that would've been right on with Jacob as a date allowed him not to be a walking stereotype, it also would've been one of the LIs to reinforce the shep would make a great mom hints they gave out at the end and probably let people who couldn't get past fshep's dialogue from ME2 actually want to presue him for 3 but it was obvious they wrote out anything to do with his arc I mean others got nothing but his just stops, same with Vega though I hated him his flirts where just one reason for me to airlock him but it also lined him up for a romance that also stopped. BW just handled it poorly if you can't finish a series you planed to have 18 LIs in then just do 4 the whole trilogy and call it a day its just one of many things game designers are suppose to pre-plan.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I really enjoyed Witcher 2's take on romance as well and I prefer it way more than the clishee romances that Bioware tends to have in their RPG's.

I actually thought it was even sillier than Bioware's to be honest as, in most cases at least, it was literally just a reward for services rendered. In one case it happens because you treat a female warrior like a warrior rather than simply a woman. In others you literally just pay a small price in gold. In still others it is literally your reward for completing a small quest. Most of the sex in the game is trivialized to the point that it is simply used as a commodity.

Unless you were referring to the actual romances rather than just the instances that lead to sex. If we're just discussing those then yeah, they were pretty great.

Of course I'm referring to those not the prostitutes scenes or random encounters that you get in to.

I'm specifically talking about the Triss romance path.

I found it very well done so that even after finishing the game multiple times to get more saved games ready for Witcher 3 I always took that path in Chapter 3 (those who played it know what I'm talking about and what happens then).

 

[Arean]

I really enjoyed Witcher 2's take on romance as well and I prefer it way more than the clishee romances that Bioware tends to have in their RPG's.

I actually thought it was even sillier than Bioware's to be honest as, in most cases at least, it was literally just a reward for services rendered. In one case it happens because you treat a female warrior like a warrior rather than simply a woman. In others you literally just pay a small price in gold. In still others it is literally your reward for completing a small quest. Most of the sex in the game is trivialized to the point that it is simply used as a commodity.

Unless you were referring to the actual romances rather than just the instances that lead to sex. If we're just discussing those then yeah, they were pretty great.

TL;DR: I see it as an attitude thing. Eastern European culture sees sex as a whole less "Sacred" than the West does, and it is reflected in the Witcher games, as well as Sapkowskis writings in the original Witcher stories.

There are a total of 5 possible sexual encounters in TW2, you sure you're not thinking of TW1?

Anyhow, The Witcher series takes a very different approach to sex than you see in western games, and I actually like it a lot more. Most Western RPGS that attempt sex and romance fall flat, as they are seldomly well written. The Witcher Games, especially the first one, takes a very Eastern European approach to the subject of sexuality, where the general attitude towards sex is a lot more laid back.

Random sexual encounters, just for fun and enjoyment, are far more acceptable in eastern european culture than in the more "prudish" west. I think Mottle from TW2 sums up the attitude quite well, she has nothing to give you in return for saving her life, so why not a spot of relaxation and enjoyment?

OT: Art imitates life, and any medium that can be seen as art, should be able/allowed to try to imitate/integrate any facet of life, this of course includes sexuality. The problem is that sex in games often feels shoehorned and pandering, many have mentioned Mass Effect, which I agree with, but I think Bioware gets a bit more smack in this area than they deserve. I found the romances in the Dragon Age games in particular to feel more real, and also have some actual effects/links with the story, instead of seemingly happening in a separate dimension.

*Spoilers for DA:O and DA2 follows*

The Dark Ritual: It comes up really late in the game, and can often put a player in a difficult spot. If you've romanced Leliana the whole game, do you refuse, and risk the lives of either you or Alistair? Do you force Alistair to lose his virginity to a person he despises? Is survival worth risking an admittedly shifty character getting a hold of godlike powers?

Succesion of the Throne: This can be very easy in some circumstances, but in others it can be a tough choice. If you are and Elf, Alistair himself will try to break up with you if he's to take the Throne, as the public would never accept an Elven queen. Are you okay with him marrying Anorra for the sake of the Kingdom? Can you live with being his mistress while he takes the political marriage?

Point being, while it is in no way perfect, I feel that DA:O does a good enough job of integrating the inter-character relations/romance options into the story, and if you are emotionally invested in your character (which I at least always am), it can have an actual impact.

DA2 gets a lot of deserved flak for some very bad design choices, but people tend to forget the things it got right, one of which was companion characters and character interactions. I found the friendship/rivalry thing well implemented, the long-spanning sidequests and large amount of optional dialogue cutscenes gave the characters a lot of life, and again, the romance options can actually make an impact.

Case in point; Isabella. She is introduced as carefree and out for herself, as well as extremely promiscuous. Romancing her during the game visibly changes her personality, and change the outcome of her arc. When s*** hits the fan, she legs it to cover her own ass, which is very in line with her character, but if you're currently romancing her, she'll change her mind and come back, deciding that you're actually worth sticking with.

TL;DR: Sex and Romance in games can work, if they are well executed. Except for the obvious "Write it so it's believable", I think it's important to make it have an impact on either the overarcing story or at least some of the characters Arcs. Romance in games falls completely flat if it is treated as a seperate entity from the rest of the plot, as an actual romance/relationship is (almost) never a "side-thing", but a very important, integral part of your life.

 

[cojo965]

I'm sorry, but I noticed Persona getting mentioned a few times and wanted to chip in there. I, myself, haven't played them, mind, but I have watched videos of 3: FES and 4 Golden. What jumps out at me in particular in Golden, specifically, is that whoever you ultimately go with never factors into the main story. I mean the options in your party for the record, as the ones like Ai are even worse but that's for another time. Take that festival incident with Teddie for example. Say you romanced Chie, for example, wouldn't she opt to go with the mc rather than the pretty boy who spends most of his time in a fucking bear costume? And this stuff just keeps happening. Yes there are those date moments in the main story but they are just filler with zero relevance to the actual plot with the murders and shit and you don't need to do them with anyone. I mean Christ in Golden's True Ending, I would have thought the person you went with would be ecstatic at the player character's return to Inaba, but again, nothing. I'm not asking for much, just some kind of acknowledgement in the main plot that you romanced another character. Keep in mind, this isn't just a problem with Persona as every game I've seen with romance options falls into this trap.

I think I'll cut it here because I've run out of things to say.

To be fair to Persona, after the story mandated scenes, there are usually scenes that follow up them that are romance specific. To use your festival example, on the first day Chie will get roped in to spending the day with Teddie, but the next day of the festival will net the MC and Chie together on a date. Besides, no one can turn down Teddie's charm, man or woman.

Like I said, seems to be filler, and unrelated to the plot at large. Yes it was a nice thing to have, but it never factored into the stuff about the murders or Social Links because they were maxed out by they came, usually anyway. Following this train of thought, another guy on this thread suggested that the MC and his squeeze were in a secret relationship. If that's the case, another question arises, why? I would understand if the player is cheating, but if not, what's the big deal? Like I said I'm not asking for much just like a line of dialogue or two that is different if you romanced a character, to just reinforce that you did.