Nobel laureate forced out of studies after making joke about women

[Fallow]

He shouldn't get sacked. The man's science cred should be more valuable than his lack of tact.

He's a scientist! In academia!
His tact shouldn't even be on the damn scale. He's a Nobel laureate and a brilliant scientist; his penchant for in-jokes has no effect on his ability to further human civilization and combat cancer.

I would say I hope all those who rabbleroused to get him fired suffer the very cancer he might have helped prevent, but it's not worth all the unlucky bastards who had nothing to do with this suffering as well.

Remember, getting shot in the head for wanting to attend school isn't important. Colorful shirts and attempted light humor, that's something we all have to fight every day.

I think an apology and maybe a day or so off from work would of sufficed. Being threatened to leave his job or else is way over the top.
Sure his joke was cruddy, but the man probably faced bad experiences with women when it comes to dating. As someone else said, if a woman was to joke about men- there'd be 0 issues and most would laugh. But on no, a guy said it so therefore, it's "sexist" am I right?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.

What? He's an emeritus, you can't block him from work for a day.
His in-joke was not only cute (for everyone that has been working in a wetlab), but also not very controversial (the very thing he mentioned happens frequently[footnote]not all women etc[/footnote]).

His experiences when it comes to women in science were very positive. Guess where he met his wife?

Also, #KillAllMen.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

So if the guy/girl who cures cancer goes out to celebrate and gets pissed, says or does something a bit stupid will now more likely get the sack. Some great world we live in.

Should they get the sack? No. They should still be held accountable for their actions though. There is a quote I like from Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire from Stannis Baratheon: "A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad the good".

While that's true, applying it here makes it seem like we've already decided that there is bad to wash out; that what he said is somehow worth punishment or even an apology.

For all the people quibbling over whether or not it was a joke or an honest statement, I have to wonder why the two are considered mutually exclusive. It seems pretty obvious that he was expressing an honest opinion (multiple sexes in the lab can cause problems) in a rather jovial way. It was a rather stupid way to express this, but I don't believe it represents anything he needs to be held accountable for.

Personally I think it is worth an apology. He pretty much generalized and grouped all female scientists into one category. Having and saying an honest opinion is fine but how one says it is important. If he said some women or a few women I believe this wouldn't be as big of an issue. I don't think it would be an issue at all. I have worked with many women before and I have never dealt with what he was speaking about. This FYI isn't just aimed at you it's aimed at everyone. I'm not an SJW so please don't generalize me as one just because I disagree with what Hunt said. The main reason I take issue with what he said is because he used a generalization. I hate generalizations.

I don't necessarily agree with what he said, I just feel there needs to be a higher threshold of action before an apology is required. While I despise the "never back down, never relent" crowd, I equally despise the way that it seems lately there's an increasing trend of people who expect others to apologise for any belief they don't like.

 

[Kathinka]

Jesus Christ, when did people become such little bitches that so grossly overreact to anything that isn't absolutely PC. Get a grip. How are real issues supposed to be taken seriously when such a major stink gets raised over menial shit like this.

I would expect most people to be intelligent enough to separate real issues from small issues. It isn't really that difficult.

I would like to think so too. But every time I'm half convinced some assbackwards fuckheaded drama queens get their nickers in a twist over a scientist wearing a shirt they don't like and treat it as the second coming of Hitler, or some similar retarded event.

 

[Bat Vader]

Jesus Christ, when did people become such little bitches that so grossly overreact to anything that isn't absolutely PC. Get a grip. How are real issues supposed to be taken seriously when such a major stink gets raised over menial shit like this.

I would expect most people to be intelligent enough to separate real issues from small issues. It isn't really that difficult.

I would like to think so too. But every time I'm half convinced some assbackwards fuckheaded drama queens get their nickers in a twist over a scientist wearing a shirt they don't like and treat it as the second coming of Hitler, or some similar retarded event.

I was one of those people that didn't agree with the shirt. I didn't view the shirt as sexist or anything along those lines I just don't agree with dressing casually to such an important event. I didn't make a big deal out of it like some other people did. I said my piece and was then done with it. Also, while I understand it feels good to insult those people some of those very people are on this forum and they could flag your post for insulting them. Just a helpful FYI.

 

[Kathinka]

Jesus Christ, when did people become such little bitches that so grossly overreact to anything that isn't absolutely PC. Get a grip. How are real issues supposed to be taken seriously when such a major stink gets raised over menial shit like this.

I would expect most people to be intelligent enough to separate real issues from small issues. It isn't really that difficult.

I would like to think so too. But every time I'm half convinced some assbackwards fuckheaded drama queens get their nickers in a twist over a scientist wearing a shirt they don't like and treat it as the second coming of Hitler, or some similar retarded event.

I was one of those people that didn't agree with the shirt. I didn't view the shirt as sexist or anything along those lines I just don't agree with dressing casually to such an important event. I didn't make a big deal out of it like some other people did. I said my piece and was then done with it. Also, while I understand it feels good to insult those people some of those very people are on this forum and they could flag your post for insulting them. Just a helpful FYI.

I appreciate the tip, but I take my chances. I firmly believe anyone should be allowed to dress however the hell they please as long as they cover the naughty bits, and people trying to do others harm because they don't like their clothing severely rub me the wrong way.
Also the irony of staunchy feminists saying that he was asking for it because of the way he was dressing is not lost on me. But that's a different topic entirely. Back to the self entitled bunch that only wants to stir up drama for dramas sake over a harmless joke!

 

[Terminal Blue]

I suspect some people aren't getting how immensely unprofessional that comment is.

University posts are extremely sensitive because they're essentially treated as public service positions, even when they are (partially) privately funded. Public service professionals are expected to.. you know, serve the public. All of the public. Without discrimination. If your conduct does not give the impression that you are doing that, then that constitutes a serious lapse of professionalism.

His institution could have stood by him, and some might say should have done. In the past, academic institutions have supported their staff in far worse situations. At the same time, it is their reputation on the line and thus their call to make. Academic institutions live and die partly on the quality of their reputations, and (while this might be a bit off topic I think it's necessary context) right now in the UK they are dying. People are losing their jobs over far less than this, assuming they even have jobs to begin with and not just an endless cycle of sub-minimum-wage fractional work.

Frankly, Tim Hunt's generation.. and I've met many people of that generation, have gotten used to a degree of job security which noone in academia is ever going to have again. His insistence that he's been terribly hard done by here is a bit strange in the context that the "young scientists" he's supposedly helping into the profession don't have a icecube's chance in hell of ever having the opportunities he had, and if they did I suspect they would be a bit more careful about how they used them.

Looking back on what I just wrote, I realize it's fucking cynical. I want to say we should all expect more and that it's important to have solidarity and that turning on each other is just feeding the neoliberal agenda which is slowly poisoning the university system, but I can't, because I'm actually quite sick of listening to established researchers whining about what they feel they deserve.

 

[Emanuele Ciriachi]

Fuck this shit, we really must be the most whiney, sensitive, thin-skinned, easily offended society in the history of the world.

This really reminds me of this article:
I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me [http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid]

All over the western world we've become so intimidated into watching every word and thought in case it might offend somebody?s precious self-esteem. It's as if the free world has forgotten to inhale.

I for one am absolutely disgusted by all of this.

 

[lord canti]

He said something incredibly unprofessional in front of the group of people he was insulting. He deserved to be reprimanded about this regardless of what credentials he has, but he didn't deserve to be fired.

 

[Superbeast]

I am really disappointed that a number of people who criticise others for "listening and believing" are completely ignoring some important facts in this situation:

Sir Tim Hunt, who is a Royal Society fellow, reportedly told a conference in South Korea women in labs "cry" when you criticise them and "fall in love" with their male counterparts.

He told the BBC he "did mean" the remarks but was "really sorry"....adding it was "a very stupid thing to do in the presence of all those journalists".

"I did mean the part about having trouble with girls," he said. "It is true that people - I have fallen in love with people in the lab and people in the lab have fallen in love with me and it's very disruptive to the science because it's terribly important that in a lab people are on a level playing field.

"I found that these emotional entanglements made life very difficult.

"I'm really, really sorry I caused any offence, that's awful. I certainly didn't mean that. I just meant to be honest, actually."

"It's terribly important that you can criticise people's ideas without criticising them and if they burst into tears, it means that you tend to hold back from getting at the absolute truth.

"Science is about nothing but getting at the truth and anything that gets in the way of that diminishes, in my experience, the science."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33077107

It should be noted that it was not even a quick quip as some present it either:

Connie St Louis, a lecturer in science journalism at City University, was in the 100-strong audience in South Korea..."The Korean female scientists who hosted us looked aghast and he just ploughed on for about five to seven minutes."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33077107

His defence that it was a joke simply cannot stand either, given that he stands by his comments.

The British biochemist, who was knighted in 2006, said the remarks were "intended as a light-hearted, ironic comment" but had been "interpreted deadly seriously by my audience".

He went on to say he stood by some of the remarks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33077107

The fact he is being supported by the likes of Brian Cox and Boris Johnson is a shame - particularly since the latter is not really making things any better:

But Mr Johnson said the response was an "overreaction" and it was not wrong to point out "gender differences"...said it was scientific fact that women cried more than men...did not deserve to be "pilloried" for pointing out "a natural phenomenon", he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33137497

That is not the context of the comments, Mr. Johnson.

It is unfortunate that he had to lose his job over this, but as a Noble Laureate you are essentially a scientific ambassador to the wider world (never mind your duties as a representative of your university as a professor; nor that whilst speaking in a professional capacity you are expected to be professional) and comments such as his can be argued to harm the perception of science and deter bright minds who would otherwise be interested in following scientific careers.

 

[Bat Vader]

Fuck this shit, we really must be the most whiney, sensitive, thin-skinned, easily offended society in the history of the world.

This really reminds me of this article:
I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me [http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid]

All over the western world we've become so intimidated into watching every word and thought in case it might offend somebody?s precious self-esteem. It's as if the free world has forgotten to inhale.

I for one am absolutely disgusted by all of this.

I agree. People need to stop whinging and need to start fighting. If someone is offended by what someone else is saying they should just haul off and slug the person as hard as they can. It's like the Westboro baptist people. Those idiots deserve to have their jaws broken.

 

[Emanuele Ciriachi]

I agree. People need to stop whinging and need to start fighting. If someone is offended by what someone else is saying they should just haul off and slug the person as hard as they can. It's like the Westboro baptist people. Those idiots deserve to have their jaws broken.

On the other hand, that reaction could get you in trouble really quickly.
As a general rule, manning up and accepting that some people's world vision offends us and that's absolutely fine would be preferreable.

 

[iLikeHippos]

It's a pretty standard affair, this. Staff-member does public bad. Public criticizes the staff-member. Organization of said staff-member cuts the member off.
And that's the end of that. You'll see this from any respectable business, organization or school, to name a few. If I were the Headmaster in control of this decision, to call for his resignation, I would had done the same; as would had 99% of people in the same position done.

It really sucks for him and his wife, (who got reprimanded as well...?) but this is the professional life. Never do the public mad, or your head comes to the chopping block, no questions asked.

 

[Kathinka]

I agree. People need to stop whinging and need to start fighting. If someone is offended by what someone else is saying they should just haul off and slug the person as hard as they can. It's like the Westboro baptist people. Those idiots deserve to have their jaws broken.

On the other hand, that reaction could get you in trouble really quickly.
As a general rule, manning up and accepting that some people's world vision offends us and that's absolutely fine would be preferreable.

This. So much this.

Somehow, the whole Social Justice Jihad has changed perception to a state where "your rights end where my rights being to" "your rights end where I am offended!". And that just shouldn't be the case. I don't want to live in a world where I have to walk on eggshells out of fear that I will be punished, either by a deranged mob or by actual institutions, that I hurt someones feelings with a harmless joke.

 

[Fallow]

Ha, perhaps that is what we're seeing.

It was bad enough when corporations became legal entities. Now we're seeing feelings become a legal entity that can be harmed in abstract ways.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I'm not sure what the problem is. If I applied to a job and started spouting off nonsense like that, and it could potentially affect the image of the company I was working for, I'd expect to be fired also. Why exactly do the rules change for a scientist and not a teacher, or a lawyer, or a salesperson?

Double standards aren't cool. Either both genders can't do it or freedom of speech is FREEDOM of speech. Jesus christ people.

How exactly is this a 'freedom of speech' issue? Is it a 'freedom of speech' complaint if someone runs their mouth and someone tells them they don't want to employ them anymore?

He lost his job, it's not like they're throwing him in jail. It was a joke in bad taste, and the reaction might be over or above what would normally be expected. But if you piss off your employer, you piss off your employer. Which is why most of us learn the lesson pretty darn quickly that running your mouth can get you in trouble. That's neither 'freedom of speech' concern, that's just common sense.

Guess what, I lost a job for saying less to a customer when I was slumming it in a restaurant during uni. Is that a freedom of expression issue?

 

[Terminal Blue]

I don't want to live in a world where I have to walk on eggshells out of fear that I will be punished, either by a deranged mob or by actual institutions, that I hurt someones feelings with a harmless joke.

Well, you do.

In the real world, people have responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is not to embarrass the people who are decent enough to pay you a salary. You don't have a "right" to a salary or to limitless job security just because you work in academia. You have to earn it like the rest of us.

I have a friend, an early career researcher and university lecturer and quite typical of my friends in academia, except she's also one of the best academics I know and I can see her work having real impact. If she told a "joke" like that in front of her students (or if I, as a GTA, did in front of mine for that matter) it wouldn't even make it to tumblr, we'd simply vanish and replaced with someone else. My friend is not 72, she's 30, and that would probably be the end of her career because you genuinely can't afford a missing reference as an early career researcher. What I'm saying here is that this is something we all learn now because it's life and death, you don't embarrass your institution if you want to keep your job.

In the past, maybe you could slide through, get tenure and then sit there fucking your students and wanking off your ego for the rest of your life while your institution was powerless to curb you, and maybe in a way that was good for free speech, but those days are gone.. And actually, I don't think I'm as sad as I should be about that, because why the fuck should someone get paid a salary to fly to Korea and tell women how they can't stop crying when the rest of us are begging for metaphorical scraps and can't afford a train ticket to get to conferences?

Goddamn it, I sound really right-wing don't I? But seriously, answer me that question.. why should someone be paid an extremely comfortable salary on the basis of having "paid their dues" and then expect to be able to fly around the world making an ass of themselves when the next generation of researchers can't even find jobs?

 

[Norithics]

Y'all act like Tumblr got him fired or somethin'.
He was fired by his superiors. If they didn't think it was worth firing him over, he'd still be working there. If I said something that ridiculous at my job, I'd be fired too! That's how that works. Welcome to the real world, as they say.

Furthermore, the article's slant is hilarious. It says they "didn't even get his side of the story," but his side was the very first side that got to be heard- he was the one who said it! Then he reinforced it. Then he started getting scared and tried to put up a front of it being a joke. Yeah, sorry, don't buy it.

But then, it's not as if an out of touch academic ever got backlash for misjudging Gamers, right?
Oh.
Oh right.