Nobody worships guns like America does

[Matthew Jabour]

If I had to cite the biggest area of friction between me and my relatives, it would be gun laws. I hold the opinion that maybe it would be nice if people stopped shooting each other for a few minutes, while they hold that they have a right and a need for guns - which is true. However, they have also convinced me of one other thing; that in America, we worship guns like nobody else does.

Now, I concede that in some situations, a small handgun is the best option for self-defense, maybe with a laser sight if you don't trust your accuracy. But for the love of god, why would you need an assault rifle? Or a shotgun? Or multiple quantities of each one? Have you pissed off any Terminators lately and need to be absolutely sure you're safe?

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a Facebook post praising the latest model assault rifle, or a comment about 'Gone to get a new pump-action shotgun!" or some new accessory like glow in the dark bullets or something else that's completely arbitrary. It's ludicrous how crazy people get over guns here.

Why do people in this country love guns so much? Because they feel threatened? No. Because there's some left-wing conspiracy to 'take our guns away'? Not that, either; if the government announced a ban on traffic cones, would everyone start hoarding those? Because they want to kill someone? Probably not (although, if your son takes one of your guns and shoots up a school, that mission is accomplished regardless.) So the only reason I can see is: because they're cool. People spend hundreds of dollars to purchase these high-performance killing machines for the sole purpose of hanging them on their wall and admiring them. Some people have gun collections, like stamps, only hundreds of times more wasteful. That is their constitutional right.

But I ask you, are we not better than that? Does it really behoove us, as a nation, to adore and worship the same devices that are being used to kill hundreds of men and women every day? (Yes, I know, guns don't kill people. When's the last time you heard of a crazed man with a machete massacre?) Couldn't we all just invest in a pastime that is just as cool, a lot more fun, and way less violence? Like videogames, for example.

Bonus: Imagine a Hoarders episode where they visited someone whose gun collection had gotten out of control. Now imagine the sheer magnitude of backlash that would come out of that.

 

[Barbas]

I suppose there's just a switch inside some people's heads that gets flicked when they look at weapons. I have an interest in the history and design of more outlandish models, though I would balk at the idea of actually firing one at a life. There just seems to be something oddly compelling and satisfying about the machinery involved, similar to what you get with motorbikes or cars. There is of course also a social element involved, because you can take them to ranges or on hunts with your companions. It's something that you can practice and become proficient at and proud of, like the piano.

Sure, people could turn to books, art or video games instead, but I doubt they'd get the same satisfying level of feedback that comes from stripping, re-assembling, cleaning and loading a rifle, then taking careful aim and hitting a small, distant target. I don't think it would be as entertaining.

Because humans are stupid

You seem strangely familiar.

 

[senordesol]

Basically: Americans value a sense of independence. When the only person you have to rely on to protect you *is* you, that's a very attractive notion indeed.

And, I'm sorry, but a shotgun is way better than a hand gun in a home defense situation. A hand gun only fires one tiny bullet at a time along a very narrow axis, a shotgun can get anywhere from 6 to 12 in a spread; highly increasing your chance of a hit.

 

[Euryalus]

Basically: Americans value a sense of independence. When the only person you have to rely on to protect you *is* you, that's a very attractive notion indeed.

And, I'm sorry, but a shotgun is way better than a hand gun in a home defense situation. A hand gun only fires one tiny bullet at a time along a very narrow axis, a shotgun can get anywhere from 6 to 12 in a spread; highly increasing your chance of a hit.

The judge is a pretty effective handgun for the same reason as far home defense goes.

OT:

People spend hundreds of dollars to purchase these high-performance killing machines for the sole purpose of hanging them on their wall and admiring them. Some people have gun collections, like stamps, only hundreds of times more wasteful. That is their constitutional right.

But I ask you, are we not better than that? Does it really behoove us, as a nation, to adore and worship the same devices that are being used to kill hundreds of men and women every day? (Yes, I know, guns don't kill people. When's the last time you heard of a crazed man with a machete massacre?) Couldn't we all just invest in a pastime that is just as cool, a lot more fun, and way less violence? Like videogames, for example.

Let's ignore whether or not "guns liberty but what about safety blah blah" for a second here.

Imagine we have the right own guns (As an actual natural human right. Let's just pretend ok? Please? Don't hurt me.)

Are you honestly going to sit here and complain about people's past times? People like collecting things. It's a thing people do. Some people collect stamps, some collect baseball cards, and some people collect weapons like guns or swords.

That it's expensive or that other people use those things to do nasty things doesn't make our hobby better. That's stupid.

And I'm going to answer your rhetorical question with a "Just a few months ago." There was a guy in China who hurt a bunch of school children with a machete or kitchen knife.

It was awful, and it happened because China (and a lot of other places not pointing fingers here) have absolutely crap mental healthcare and/or attitudes towards mental health care.

Believe it or not gun ownership doesn't affect crime like that as much as you'd think. One way or the other. It's oddly counter intuitive.

 

[The Madman]

I remember watching a comedian's routine, wish I could remember which right now, where he compared guns in America to Barbie Dolls for men because of how obsessive some people get about collecting all their favourites and buying all the accessories for them.

I'm not American but that's always struck me as a fun comparison. People like collecting things and in many parts of America the only thing not seen as nerdy or weird to obsess over is guns, thus they collect lots and lots of guns.

But again I'm not American so beats me how much truth there is to that. I don't really know anyone that has any sort of gun collection here.

 

[senordesol]

Basically: Americans value a sense of independence. When the only person you have to rely on to protect you *is* you, that's a very attractive notion indeed.

And, I'm sorry, but a shotgun is way better than a hand gun in a home defense situation. A hand gun only fires one tiny bullet at a time along a very narrow axis, a shotgun can get anywhere from 6 to 12 in a spread; highly increasing your chance of a hit.

For basic home defense, sure. But it's hard to concealed carry a shotgun. The Second Amendment doesn't stop existing when you walk outside your front door.

Obviously, however the OP was questioning the need for a shotgun. That post was meant to address that querry.

 

[omega 616]

Yes, I know, guns don't kill people. When's the last time you heard of a crazed man with a machete massacre?

You would be surprised, I believe it's happened twice in Asia in the past 5 or so years.

I would love to go to America and see the touristy stuff, grand canyon, white house, all those monuments, times square ... weirdly, that building that always seems to be in spiderman (The Flatiron Building?). If America can do one thing it's landmarks! But I would NEVER go to America with it's current gun laws!

I know, the vast, vast majority of Americans are probably the nicest people you will ever meet but if 1% of Americans are crazy, that means 3,170,000 nut jobs are allowed to carry guns!

Personally, I think owning a snub nose revolver would be over kill (unless you live in certain locations, like a bear is a common sight) but a shotgun to defend yourself with? If you need a shotgun for self defense, try being less of a dick! Tazer, pepper spray or some self defense classes is a form of self defense, a gun is an offensive weapon.

Yeah, weapon! It's designed to kill and nothing else, yeah, you can use it for sport but come on ... the inventor wasn't like "this will be great for fucking up paper!" or "I wish I could shoot clay out the air" it was designed to supersede the bow and arrow, to be a more accurate and deadly way to kill somebody at range.

I think Americans get a bit scary around guns when the issue of restrictions comes up, like if somebody says "what do you think about limiting the capacity of rounds in magazine (lets not get into the whole technical jargon)?" and all the gun toting 'muricans would shout "SECOND AMENDMENT! SECOND AMENDMENT! SECOND AMENDMENT! LALA, CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER MY SECOND AMENDMENT!" ... take it down a notch guy!

 

[senordesol]

Yes, I know, guns don't kill people. When's the last time you heard of a crazed man with a machete massacre?

You would be surprised, I believe it's happened twice in Asia in the past 5 or so years.

I would love to go to America and see the touristy stuff, grand canyon, white house, all those monuments, times square ... weirdly, that building that always seems to be in spiderman (The Flatiron Building?). If America can do one thing it's landmarks! But I would NEVER go to America with it's current gun laws!

I know, the vast, vast majority of Americans are probably the nicest people you will ever meet but if 1% of Americans are crazy, that means 3,170,000 nut jobs are allowed to carry guns!

Personally, I think owning a snub nose revolver would be over kill (unless you live in certain locations, like a bear is a common sight) but a shotgun to defend yourself with? If you need a shotgun for self defense, try being less of a dick! Tazer, pepper spray or some self defense classes is a form of self defense, a gun is an offensive weapon.

I think Americans get a bit scary around guns when the issue of restrictions comes up, like if somebody says "what do you think about limiting the capacity of rounds in magazine (lets not get into the whole technical jargon)?" and all the gun toting 'muricans would shout "SECOND AMENDMENT! SECOND AMENDMENT! SECOND AMENDMENT! LALA, CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER MY SECOND AMENDMENT!" ... take it down a notch guy!

If 1% of Americans are as nuts as you say, then the need for heavy ordinance should be obvious whether you're a dick or not.

 

[MysticSlayer]

in many parts of America the only thing not seen as nerdy or weird to obsess over is guns, thus they collect lots and lots of guns.

But again I'm not American so beats me how much truth there is to that. I don't really know anyone that has any sort of gun collection here.

Well, I can tell you that the bold statement is a baseless stereotype. The "barbie doll" comparison is sort of humorous, but that comparison can be made about anything anyone obsesses over, not just guns.

OT:

I don't fully get the obsession with guns. Being around one tends to frighten me a bit, just like if I'm around swords or knives. Granted, I'm getting better with knives since my brother started collecting them, and the same may happen with guns if I were around them more often. Still, no matter how much I'm around any weapon, outside of a bow and arrow, I'm just uncomfortable with them.

Still, I can at least think of numerous reasons why someone would like them. Some of them are visually appealing. Some of them have historical significance. They offer a great way to spend time with friends and family on the weekend, and any hunter will certainly enjoy having a nice gun to go out with. Some people may just like the engineering aspect of a gun, or perhaps one was featured in a book or movie they like and it reminds them of that.

Ultimately, none of those are bad reasons, and I'd say most of them are a good way to turn your hobby with guns into something productive. Of course, people like me who don't get involved in that may find it hard to fully understand, but I think saying that these people are acting "immature" or "lower" or "worse" than what they should is just being completely unfair to them.

 

[omega 616]

If 1% of Americans are as nuts as you say, then the need for heavy ordinance should be obvious whether you're a dick or not.

Noppers. If the gun laws were as strict as say Aus or the UK, then nobody would really have guns and the "bad eggs" would find it much harder to get a gun.

Gun crime would drop like a stone 'cos there are less guns ... such as the kid who tried to rape his mum and then shot and killed her with a .22. Cops would be much less twitchy 'cos they don't have to worry about people owning guns ... like the teen who was shot for having WII-mote. Like Aus, school shootings would drop right off 'cos again, like of guns.

I know USA wont be like Aus if they did give up guns 'cos Mexico is right there and that place can be pretty lawless from what I hear.

I also know that America will never give up guns, it just loves them too much.

 

[MysticSlayer]

If America can do one thing it's landmarks! But I would NEVER go to America with it's current gun laws!

I know, the vast, vast majority of Americans are probably the nicest people you will ever meet but if 1% of Americans are crazy, that means 3,170,000 nut jobs are allowed to carry guns!

Yes, sort of makes you wonder how so many of us are still living and capable of walking around without having to worry about being shot by one of those potentially 3.2 million psychos.

 

[senordesol]

If 1% of Americans are as nuts as you say, then the need for heavy ordinance should be obvious whether you're a dick or not.

Noppers. If the gun laws were as strict as say Aus or the UK, then nobody would really have guns and the "bad eggs" would find it much harder to get a gun.

Gun crime would drop like a stone 'cos there are less guns ... such as the kid who tried to rape his mum and then shot and killed her with a .22. Cops would be much less twitchy 'cos they don't have to worry about people owning guns ... like the teen who was shot for having WII-mote. Like Aus, school shootings would drop right off 'cos again, like of guns.

I know USA wont be like Aus if they did give up guns 'cos Mexico is right there and that place can be pretty lawless from what I hear.

I also know that America will never give up guns, it just loves them too much.

Ah hmm...that was meant as a joke but if you're really going to press me...

Do you honestly believe that if 1% of the population (of any country) was violently unstable that there would be less of a need to defend one's self (regardless of means)?

Even with no guns at all, a psychopath's a psychopath and if 3.1m people in a given area are psychopaths; then I wouldn't call that exactly safe regardless of what tools are or are not allowed.

However that's a moot point (thus the joke), as less than .01% of people in the US ever kill anybody (legally or otherwise) with a firearm, kind of making the whole '1%' think a tad ridiculous in its evident paranoia.

 

[omega 616]

If America can do one thing it's landmarks! But I would NEVER go to America with it's current gun laws!

I know, the vast, vast majority of Americans are probably the nicest people you will ever meet but if 1% of Americans are crazy, that means 3,170,000 nut jobs are allowed to carry guns!

Yes, sort of makes you wonder how so many of us are still living and capable of walking around without having to worry about being shot by one of those potentially 3.2 million psychos.

Grew up and got used to the idea of so many gun toting crazies walking around ... we have crazies in the uk, they will just have a harder time killing us as quickly.

Hell a school massacre in the UK would be a short lived low causality affair, in America it seems to be a quite common occurrence with a serious kill count on each go.

 

[omega 616]

snip

To be honest, I just picked a low ball percentage that was mathematically simple to work out (I SUCK at maths).

I believe that guns make it easy to mow down a whole heap of people in 30 seconds, take away that ability and a person going crazy with the next deadliest weapon will kill maybe 5 and injure a few more 'cos they will scatter and run away from the sword wielding psycho! Bullets run faster than people.

Making it harder to kill loads of people can only be a good thing, sure you can kill loads of people with a bomb but it's harder to make a bomb than to buy a gun.

 

[Cerebrawl]

Now, I concede that in some situations, a small handgun is the best option for self-defense, maybe with a laser sight if you don't trust your accuracy. But for the love of god, why would you need an assault rifle? Or a shotgun? Or multiple quantities of each one? Have you pissed off any Terminators lately and need to be absolutely sure you're safe?

Ever seen a riot or natural disaster situation with looting? The guys sitting on their roofs with AR-15s in their laps didn't have their houses looted.

Likewise home defense isn't always against just one perpetrator, and few people have perfect accuracy when the adrenaline is pumping, do you want to run out of ammo and need to reload while fighting off half a dozen gangmembers? Maybe with your family cowering in the bedroom?

 

[Cerebrawl]

If America can do one thing it's landmarks! But I would NEVER go to America with it's current gun laws!

I know, the vast, vast majority of Americans are probably the nicest people you will ever meet but if 1% of Americans are crazy, that means 3,170,000 nut jobs are allowed to carry guns!

Yes, sort of makes you wonder how so many of us are still living and capable of walking around without having to worry about being shot by one of those potentially 3.2 million psychos.

Grew up and got used to the idea of so many gun toting crazies walking around ... we have crazies in the uk, they will just have a harder time killing us as quickly.

Hell a school massacre in the UK would be a short lived low causality affair, in America it seems to be a quite common occurrence with a serious kill count on each go.

There was a train station massacre recently in China with knives. 33 dead and over 160 wounded.

10 attackers. But hey there's been single crazies going to town with crowbars, axes, knives, metal pipes, etc and getting upwards of 10 kills on their own.

Of course if some crazy wants to take out a lot of people, there's not much stopping them from making a big petrol or fertilizer based firebomb.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Personally, I think owning a snub nose revolver would be over kill (unless you live in certain locations, like a bear is a common sight) but a shotgun to defend yourself with? If you need a shotgun for self defense, try being less of a dick! Tazer, pepper spray or some self defense classes is a form of self defense, a gun is an offensive weapon.

Handguns are generally made for killing humans. If you shoot a bear with small arms not specifically designed to take out large game, you might kill it...a week down the line if the wound gets infected. But for the immediate point in time when you do shoot it, it will probably disembowel you in rage. Or run away. But if it runs, it probably could have been chased off by a number of other methods. The most probable outcome is that it plain kills you.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

Yes, I know, guns don't kill people. When's the last time you heard of a crazed man with a machete massacre?

You would be surprised, I believe it's happened twice in Asia in the past 5 or so years.

Twice in 5 years? If we had that kind of track record, it would be laudable! We have a mass school shooting every couple of months here in America.