North Korea? Don't make me laugh.

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

For fucks sake, a game is a game, not real bloody life. Not every single detail about a story needs to be ironed out so that you can't poke holes in it. Homefront is set in the future, not today and I don't know enough about Red Dawn to argue that. Can we just play a game where we put ourselves in that world instead of trying to put that world in ours?

You just wanted to wave your knowledge about N. Korea and the USA in everyone's face, didn't you? Don't feel bad if it's true, I do it all the time to people, it's not a bad thing.

 

[Westaway]

Except America is a 3rd world nation when it happens and it's South Korea, North Korea and Japan in a unified nation, with the biggest economie in the world. How the hell THAT happens deserves a rant.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

"North Korea could never invade or attack the United States."

That's what people said about the Japanese in the 1940's. Such naivety cost thousands of American soldiers and sailors their lives at Pearl Harbor.

Never underestimate an enemy, or potential enemy. They will make you regret it.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Oke, a few things. One don't underestimate North Korea, they have the fourth largest fighting force in the world, every north-korean man spends at least 10 years in the army (and can be deployed when not in the army anymore) and are way harder and better trained. They have 2 to 9 nuclear weapons, the largest chemical weapons stockpile, the largest special forces brand (believe me, those guys spend every second they live training and are probably better than most green beret/SAS units). Their only disadvantage is their slightly aging equipment. Two, even though the US will probably not be invaded nor attacked by anything, but terrorists. You aren't superior.
And... It's a alternative timeline is probably has been pointed out already.

A few things.

1. NK troops do NOT have superior training when compared to US combat troops.
2. The NK Military is not designed for long range deployment. They do not have the logistical support channels that the US army has built in to every Brigade Combat Team.
3. The NK Military doesn't just have old Military hardware: they have ANCIENT military hardware. They lack the little toys that actually make a huge difference: Digital tank packages, GPS targeting, a Navy that could beat even one American Super Carrier group.
4. You are comparing Black Ops military branches to the US Special Forces. Their missions are vastly different. Don't worry, it's a mistake many people make, such as comparing the SAS to Special Forces (Delta Force is a better comparison, but even though they are technically Special Forces, their mission is vastly different, which is why they go by their own name).
5. Because of the logistics problem, North Korea has virtually no ability to project force. The US military does, at the expense of combat troops (The US has a very small proportion of combat troops compared to other Militaries, trading brute strength for the ability to strike anywhere we damn well please).

 

[Nickolai77]

I wish someone would have the balls to make a game about internal strife and seeing the US deteriorate into something you'd see in third world nation. You could even tweak the "Homefront" story as you said.

-US Government collapses, resorts to martial law to maintain order (just like in the game)

-paranoia, fear and anger grips US society.

-internal strife breaks out, anti-government militias/state police/military-government groups rebel, and seize the opportunity by break away from the union. Begin to enforce "constitutional" law as they interpret it in the areas under their control, may start fighting other militias for control.

-religious terrorism and zealotry by Evangelicals/protestants starts, claiming that the "end times are upon us". Political and ethnic tensions between communities throws what's left of stability and normalcy into further chaos.

- The weak, federal government begins to abuse its power as the situation gets worse and conducts a desperate (albeit "dirty") war against domestic para-military forces to regain control and citizens rights are curtailed in a feeble attempt to provide security.


Just my two cents of course, not that anyone would have the courage to produce such a game: after all we are stupid, mindless consumers who can't handle controversial material.

I'd quite like a game like this: A nice twist would be that the German, Russian and British armies (America's favorite bad-guys)swoop in and save the day.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Oh christ, this again...

Yeah, time for the parade of fanboys who apparently have never been told there's such a thing as bad speculative fiction and have no standards for what they'll accept as a "realistic" story. Tiresome, isn't it?

(EDIT: Though I'll give the Homefront team credit for this, at least: I've never seen so many people become fanboys of a franchise weeks before it tanked on release, purely out of a desire to defend its silly backstory. There obviously really was a market thirsting for a new "Red Dawn"-style story... thirsting badly enough to accept and defend almost anything. Shame they seem to have fumbled the actual game.)

Oh, I'm a fanboy, now? Interesting, because I haven't actually mentioned Homefront.

But whatever. I'm not saying Homefront has a good story. I'm saying, with the timeline they've created (helpfully linked by Sassafrass) it is certainly with the realm of speculative fiction, ah, speculation. If, at the end of World War One, someone said Germany would suddenly invade and conquer a gigantic portion of Europe, only to be held off by tenacious defense of a few nations while everyone else wrung their hands nervously and wondered what to do, they'd be laughed at. By everyone.

And yet, a strong leader emerges, uniting his people and strengthening his military... oh, looks like I'm describing the plot of Homefront now, aren't I?

Oh christ, this again...

Why has no one ever heard of speculative fiction?

Or indeed, Homefront's timeline, which sheds some light on how the Koreans somehow managed to invade America? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homefront_(video_game)#Timeline]

That said, it's still far fetched. But then again, so is any storyline in gaming today, especially in FPSes.

Yeah, it is kinda crazy, but honestly who else would they have? China and Russia don't have much of a motive, Iran is too politically charged, and everyone else is even more unrealistic.

 

[Wicky_42]

Is North Korean really a viable threat to the Yankees, even in fiction?

fiction

Key word. It's a story.

Never use "it's a story" as an excuse for bad writing. Of course it's a story, that's utterly irrelevant to whether it's a well-done story.

I don't really see where the bad writing is in a background timeline [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homefront_(video_game)#Timeline].

Sure, you might disagree with the 'plausability' of some of the points [key one being the Korean reunification], but that doesn't make it bad. That's speculative fiction, it's a 'what if?' scenario, I couldn't care less if you don't like it but it doesn't make it bad writing just because of your opinion.

Show me where it's 'badly written' in a way that makes it any worse than other games and I'll maybe start taking you seriously, but you're still in the "waaa, America's great" crowd as far as I can see.

 

[Caligulove]

I actually read that the remake of Red Dawn is a still a Go where the Chinese AND the Russians invade the US. Just gotta add those ruskies in to make it a realistic invasion, proper.

Fucking cold war animosities.

 

[Thespian]

Except of course if you're selling the fucking story as realistic. Guess what THQ was doing?

(EDIT: Ah, I see you addressed this further on. Sorry. That was hasty. The point that they sacrificed plausibility in the setup so that the setting would be familiar might be correct. Unfortunately it doesn't get around the fact that the setting needed a plausible setup, and they went to great lengths to advertise their setup as plausible.)

Thank god you edited that. I was about to punch a small child's face. Not because it's a particularly bad thing but I have had a long day and I was just like "BUT I TOTALLY ADDRESSED THAT IN A CALM AND ATTENTIVE TONE O.<".
That aside, it's my impression that they weren't advertising their setup as all that plausible, at least not as one of their main selling points. I certainly don't think they oversold it, because it's not that implausible if you ask me, considering, as I said, because it's the setup to a Game, and the majority of a game's narrative is in the gameplay, and if it was a movie I'm sure plenty more work would be put into the setup but it's not, and they need something concise and succinct to put in the opening cinematic.

This is my impression, because, well... It's what I got from all the advertising, and I think that some people expected that it had to be the holy grail of the FPS genre that would forever redefine it and introduce new, more intelligent story-lines and if it failed at that, it would amount to nothing. I think some middle ground is needed if a successful new IP is to get in.

I worry about other promising IPs such as Brink coming out in mid May and that they will be overly-criticized too, considering the fact that if you impose the same scrutiny on homefront to Brink's story, it's in trouble. It's as if a shooter's storyline is subject to worse critique if it isn't lifted from actual historical events.

 

[JochemDude]

Oke, a few things. One don't underestimate North Korea, they have the fourth largest fighting force in the world, every north-korean man spends at least 10 years in the army (and can be deployed when not in the army anymore) and are way harder and better trained. They have 2 to 9 nuclear weapons, the largest chemical weapons stockpile, the largest special forces brand (believe me, those guys spend every second they live training and are probably better than most green beret/SAS units). Their only disadvantage is their slightly aging equipment. Two, even though the US will probably not be invaded nor attacked by anything, but terrorists. You aren't superior.
And... It's a alternative timeline is probably has been pointed out already.

A few things.

1. NK troops do NOT have superior training when compared to US combat troops.
2. The NK Military is not designed for long range deployment. They do not have the logistical support channels that the US army has built in to every Brigade Combat Team.
3. The NK Military doesn't just have old Military hardware: they have ANCIENT military hardware. They lack the little toys that actually make a huge difference: Digital tank packages, GPS targeting, a Navy that could beat even one American Super Carrier group.
4. You are comparing Black Ops military branches to the US Special Forces. Their missions are vastly different. Don't worry, it's a mistake many people make, such as comparing the SAS to Special Forces (Delta Force is a better comparison, but even though they are technically Special Forces, their mission is vastly different, which is why they go by their own name).
5. Because of the logistics problem, North Korea has virtually no ability to project force. The US military does, at the expense of combat troops (The US has a very small proportion of combat troops compared to other Militaries, trading brute strength for the ability to strike anywhere we damn well please).

I no expert on all branches of the US, Nor their objectives. I can't see how years of hard, cruel training could not deliver better soldier than just normal training (hard, but not that hard). Still, never the less I'm not American and may or may not share all that patriotic nonsense and just don't believe in the glorious propaganda of USA Superiority.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

"North Korea could never invade or attack the United States."

That's what people said about the Japanese in the 1940's.

And Japan did not invade the United States. They managed a surprise attack on Pearl Harbour and were thereafter steadily crushed by American military might.

The disparities between today's US army and North Korea well outstrips that mismatch. The fact that China is no longer a war-torn basket case or a Maoist hermit-state but a rising power in its own right, closely linked to the US economy and markets, also bears some thinking about.

My point still stands. The Japanese did exactly what people keep saying they couldn't do. It was only luck that our aircraft carriers weren't in port at the time of the attack. If they had been there, well we'd wouldn't be having this debate now would we?

 

[Mcupobob]

Let´s face it.
We are living in a world running RAPIDLY out of nations that can be
a) taken seriously as a threat
and
b) are evil.

All the really powerful guys turned out to be pretty nice or at least someone you can do buisness with and what´s left couldn´t even invade the Antarctis without getting beaten by the Royal Penguin Squadron.

So yes, the North Koreans are idiotic enemies. But it´s not like there is much to go around in terms of choice of villains.

To be fair, the royal Penguin Squadron is pretty badass.

OT: Pretty much what this guy said. Though I would like to see other invasion stories set in different countries. After reading Tomorrow: Series and that one book about England getting occupied I think it could be pretty interesting. Better than the American story, because the developers will always have you just romp through a suburbs all with perfect lawns and maybe a play set in the backyard or through a bunch of malls and fast food joints. Also a white house level.

 

[Kortney]

It would have been more interesting (considering the Communists have been done to death) if a US ally invaded them. Maybe the EU? They could do a turn of events that made the US lose heaps of approval and a few bad foreign policy mistakes. Their economy could crumble and the EU could rise as a threat to US supremacy.

This would also be an awesome idea because it could make the USA and its enemy morally grey.

But the public would probably hate it.

 

[Kortney]

"North Korea could never invade or attack the United States."

That's what people said about the Japanese in the 1940's.

And Japan did not invade the United States. They managed a surprise attack on Pearl Harbour and were thereafter steadily crushed by American military might.

The disparities between today's US army and North Korea well outstrips that mismatch. The fact that China is no longer a war-torn basket case or a Maoist hermit-state but a rising power in its own right, closely linked to the US economy and markets, also bears some thinking about.

My point still stands. The Japanese did exactly what people keep saying they couldn't do. It was only luck that our aircraft carriers weren't in port at the time of the attack. If they had been there, well we'd wouldn't be having this debate now would we?

Ah yes, you would. The Japanese were entirely incapable of defeating the Allies in the 1940s. If Pearl Harbor was a success, the war would of lasted longer - but the Allies still would have crushed them.

Do some research on the Japanese homefront. They literally had no hope to begin with.

 

[Patton662]

North Korea is a country with technology so far behind everyone else it's not even funny, they have a widespread famine that kills thousands every year. They relay on army vehicles from the 60s. In no way would they be able to take on the USA.
What I find really funny is the fact that everyone is afraid to portray China as a villain because they produce everything, including some American army equipment. Looks like commies won the Cold war after all because without them the USA would fall apart.

 

[Fox242]

While North Korea couldn't invade the U.S. without a set of highly unlikely circumstances, its army is a forced to not be taken lightly. It boasts the largest artillery force in the world and every fourth round for said artillery force has a chemical tip (I've heard this from more than a few forces). They have a massive army confined in a small space which would be difficult to deal with, notwithstanding their armor divisions and air support. There's a reason why we don't a war with them, because they would cause massive casualties both military and civilian in the opening hours.

 

[Drake_Dercon]

Don't be ridiculous! North Korea has actually been communing with aliens and is simply much too advanced and concerned with off-world politics to focus on the less pressing issue of the states. Though, they are becoming a bit too powerful, so North Korea is trying to annoy the US to such a degree that they start a war. Then they'll have an excuse to detonate the thousands of nuclear weapons they hid just below American cities and military bases.

All these games are just silly. When the North Koreans attack it will be swift and decisive, with no possibility of reprisal.

Honestly, you're not alone. Stop trying to force that. It's just that America is really hoping for an actual villain... making a country where nobody can leave perfect, too bad someone decided to find out that it's a really horrible and abusive regime.