North Korea? Don't make me laugh.

[Jamboxdotcom]

North Korea has a pretty fucking huge army...
And presumably has nukes...

...and is under the control of someone who is just batshit insane enough to do something like attempting to invade a powerful country clear across the ocean.
would they succeed in real life? highly unlikely, due to supply line issues as many, including Lt.Snuffles have noted. but honestly, as others have pointed out, there is a serious shortage of plausible national enemies for the US these days. our Generals are probably all writhing naked in their offices wanking to the memory of Soviet Russia, "the One That Got Away."

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Oh dear god it's this thread again...

I'm going to answer your question, with a question, because I am generally curious.

Do people who say that North Korea invading the US is utterly preposterous, realise that in the backstory North Korea and South Korea unite, then they annex China and several other Asian countries?

So it's actually North Koreas army, plus all those other countries armies, still not a great chance of invading the US successfully, but hey speculative fiction.

 

[PureIrony]

No, but Kim Jong Il seems to enjoy testing missile technology on American war holidays. Take that for what you will.

 

[Verlander]

I thought they had nukes? If they bomb all of your major cities, the US will be in turmoil. End of.

Seriously though? Not really. Contrary to what American media tells you, it is not the North Korean aim to take over America. Relax yourselves

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Oke, a few things. One don't underestimate North Korea, they have the fourth largest fighting force in the world, every north-korean man spends at least 10 years in the army (and can be deployed when not in the army anymore) and are way harder and better trained. They have 2 to 9 nuclear weapons, the largest chemical weapons stockpile, the largest special forces brand (believe me, those guys spend every second they live training and are probably better than most green beret/SAS units). Their only disadvantage is their slightly aging equipment. Two, even though the US will probably not be invaded nor attacked by anything, but terrorists. You aren't superior.
And... It's a alternative timeline is probably has been pointed out already.

A few things.

1. NK troops do NOT have superior training when compared to US combat troops.
2. The NK Military is not designed for long range deployment. They do not have the logistical support channels that the US army has built in to every Brigade Combat Team.
3. The NK Military doesn't just have old Military hardware: they have ANCIENT military hardware. They lack the little toys that actually make a huge difference: Digital tank packages, GPS targeting, a Navy that could beat even one American Super Carrier group.
4. You are comparing Black Ops military branches to the US Special Forces. Their missions are vastly different. Don't worry, it's a mistake many people make, such as comparing the SAS to Special Forces (Delta Force is a better comparison, but even though they are technically Special Forces, their mission is vastly different, which is why they go by their own name).
5. Because of the logistics problem, North Korea has virtually no ability to project force. The US military does, at the expense of combat troops (The US has a very small proportion of combat troops compared to other Militaries, trading brute strength for the ability to strike anywhere we damn well please).

I no expert on all branches of the US, Nor their objectives. I can't see how years of hard, cruel training could not deliver better soldier than just normal training (hard, but not that hard). Still, never the less I'm not American and may or may not share all that patriotic nonsense and just don't believe in the glorious propaganda of USA Superiority.

What kind of training is often more important then how much training you get.

The US Army runs hundreds of different types of training that go on constantly every day. Infantry, Artillery, and Armor spend billions of dollars a year training in relevant combat scenarios: the benefit of being a country that enjoys sticking our noses in other people's business.

Added to that is the simple fact that the US military is a volunteer forces. The only people who become fighters are the ones who WANT to, and the only ones who stay in are the ones who are good at it. North Koreans are compelled into service: whether they're any good at it matters very little. You have to remember, you just can't train anyone to do any task: otherwise, we'd all be NASA scientist who can bowl 300 and play a perfect game of pool.

People who want to do something, who are naturally suited to the task, and who receive extensive, modern training will almost always beat out a force of drafted civilians who serve regardless of skill level and receiving hundreds of hours of irrelevant, grueling training.

I thought they had nukes? If they bomb all of your major cities, the US will be in turmoil. End of.

Seriously though? Not really. Contrary to what American media tells you, it is not the North Korean aim to take over America. Relax yourselves

The NK have very primitive missile systems. Its unlikely they could launch a Nuke all the way to the US without it missing or being shot down.

Its also stupid. The don't have nearly enough Nukes, and they know there is at least one Missile Sub sitting off their coast, just itching to get funky.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

For fucks sake, a game is a game, not real bloody life. Not every single detail about a story needs to be ironed out so that you can't poke holes in it.

No. Just the really basic ones like why your war is happening and how one country gets to conquer another.

Korea had an economic boom and was able to produce nuclear defence systems and nuclear weapons secretly. N. Korea then proceeded to make alliances with several other countries that assisted in the invasion of the USA.

There, I made one up. A backstory that took all of 30 seconds to think up. I don't know whether it fits or not, I don't care, it's a basic backstory that looks like it would work.

 

[zHellas]

North Korea has a pretty fucking huge army...
And presumably has nukes...
But no, you're right: the invasion would last a day or so, before the North Koreans realise that they have no supplies, money or support to sustain such an invasion and get the shit kicked out of them.

Actually, I'd think that once the North Korean soldiers hit U.S. land they'd drop their guns and kiss the floor.



Joke.

OT:

Yeah, I find that dubious as well.

Other than a few nukes, I doubt they'd put up that much of a fight. But then again, we assumed that Vietnam would be easy, so assuming North Korea would be shit might be a bad thing to do.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

"North Korea could never invade or attack the United States."

That's what people said about the Japanese in the 1940's.

And Japan did not invade the United States. They managed a surprise attack on Pearl Harbour and were thereafter steadily crushed by American military might.

The disparities between today's US army and North Korea well outstrips that mismatch. The fact that China is no longer a war-torn basket case or a Maoist hermit-state but a rising power in its own right, closely linked to the US economy and markets, also bears some thinking about.

My point still stands. The Japanese did exactly what people keep saying they couldn't do. It was only luck that our aircraft carriers weren't in port at the time of the attack. If they had been there, well we'd wouldn't be having this debate now would we?

Ah yes, you would. The Japanese were entirely incapable of defeating the Allies in the 1940s. If Pearl Harbor was a success, the war would of lasted longer - but the Allies still would have crushed them.

Do some research on the Japanese homefront. They literally had no hope to begin with.

And how would we have counterattacked without aircraft carriers? Answer me that.

If we had lost our aircraft carriers at Pearl Harbor, then the next step Yamamoto would of taken was to steam the Japanese navy to our west coast and invade. The fact they missed the carriers is what keep them from moving their navy westward. After all, we would of have pretty much no way of stopping them. Aircraft are vital to naval warfare.

No aircraft carriers would of meant no Dolittle Raid, no taking of Midway, and no invasion of Okinawa, and no dropping of Fat Man and Little Boy.

 

[Alade]

North Korea has an active army of 1,106,000 and a reserve army of 8,200,000, in comparison the US has 1,580,000 and 864,000 respectively. With a well done (surprise) attack North Korea could do a lot of damage to the US.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Tbf, it's not like they're just saying "North Korea invades America somehow..."

The game is set over a decade in the future, where it is imagined that the decline in the US economy spiraled out of control and the Middle East breaks down into a melting pot of violence. As a result of these two event the US can no longer sustain itself as a military and economic world power (which presumably means it would have to get rid of its nuclear capability in order to cut costs). All the while North Korea's economy booms, and it overtakes the other Far Eastern economies. So when NK's newly advanced military, backed up by it's newfound economic success, takes on America's overstretched and underfunded one, NK wins. I'm not saying this is likely, but if current trends continue further into the 21st century it may be plausible.

And hey, at least it's not Russia this time.

 

[Kortney]

And how would we have counterattacked without aircraft carriers? Answer me that.

The US military wouldn't of counterattacked straight away. They would of been delayed. The end result would of been the same however.

If we had lost our aircraft carriers at Pearl Harbor, then the next step Yamamoto would of taken was to steam the Japanese navy to our west coast and invade.

Source? That is utter nonsense. You think the Japanese army was well equipped enough to invade the United States? Wow. They weren't even well equipped enough to invade Australia.

Tell me, how on Earth would they have managed to invade the USA, yet still fight off the numerous other nations in the pacific and hold their territory? Considering the fact the Russians would of came in earlier and it's even more ridiculous. Completely ridiculous.

The fact they missed the carriers is what keep them from moving their navy westward. After all, we would of have pretty much no way of stopping them. Aircraft are vital to naval warfare.

No aircraft carriers would of meant no Dolittle Raid, no taking of Midway, and no invasion of Okinawa, and no dropping of Fat Man and Little Boy.

Nope, it would of meant five other victories. Inflicted by other countries. The USA would of been hurt, but they would of got back on their feet. You'd be surprised how quickly a nation can build a few aircraft carriers during war.

Japan would of still lost. Their homefront couldn't hold them up. They simply lacked the resources for a war. And they knew this too, the whole thing was a desperate gamble to take land and power.

 

[DefunctTheory]

"North Korea could never invade or attack the United States."

That's what people said about the Japanese in the 1940's.

And Japan did not invade the United States. They managed a surprise attack on Pearl Harbour and were thereafter steadily crushed by American military might.

The disparities between today's US army and North Korea well outstrips that mismatch. The fact that China is no longer a war-torn basket case or a Maoist hermit-state but a rising power in its own right, closely linked to the US economy and markets, also bears some thinking about.

My point still stands. The Japanese did exactly what people keep saying they couldn't do. It was only luck that our aircraft carriers weren't in port at the time of the attack. If they had been there, well we'd wouldn't be having this debate now would we?

Ah yes, you would. The Japanese were entirely incapable of defeating the Allies in the 1940s. If Pearl Harbor was a success, the war would of lasted longer - but the Allies still would have crushed them.

Do some research on the Japanese homefront. They literally had no hope to begin with.

And how would we have counterattacked without aircraft carriers? Answer me that.

If we had lost our aircraft carriers at Pearl Harbor, then the next step Yamamoto would of taken was to steam the Japanese navy to our west coast and invade. The fact they missed the carriers is what keep them from moving their navy westward. After all, we would of have pretty much no way of stopping them. Aircraft are vital to naval warfare.

No aircraft carriers would of meant no Dolittle Raid, no taking of Midway, and no invasion of Okinawa, and no dropping of Fat Man and Little Boy.

Actually, the Japanese Admirals where flabbergasted when asked to fight the Americans. They knew they didn't have a prayer once the American's turned their entire economic might against the Japanese. The plan was to scare the shit out of the Americans and force them to panic.

"I shall run wild considerably for the first six months or a year but I have utterly no confidence for the second and third years." - Yamaoto.

 

[Merkavar]

i havent played homefront but my understanding is the koreans invade after america has collapsed. the army has fallen apart and the government had collapsed and the koreans have been unified and are the strongest they have ever been, so i dont see why korea invading is so laughable.

in the present i cant see korea invading the us and winning.

 

[Sporky111]

If you're taking a fictional game to be a factual prediction of the future, I think you need to get your head out of the games and watch the news more.

Which I think I have to recommend anyway from the rest of your comments. Belittling the Koreans and mindlessly praising America doesn't give credit to your intelligence

 

[Del-Toro]

Oh christ, this again...

Why has no one ever heard of speculative fiction?

I was going to ask this. Is it really so hard for people to get their heads around the idea of an alternate universe based on real life, the idea of "what if this happened, and it led to this?" isn't that hard to comprehend. It's actually kind of the basis of all fiction ever. I know the people who are saying these things love to think of themselves as a kind of enlightened (or at least informed) intellectual elite, but when you're scoffing at fiction for factual inaccuracies, then fuck you (not the person I'm quoting, you've managed to condense the point I'm making into one beautiful sentence). Zombies couldn't actually exist, that's now how death works. Dragons (komodo notwithstanding) aren't real, how could something that big fly without an engine and breath fire? It makes no sense evolutionarily. There aren't humans in other galaxies, most alien life wouldn't be humanoid, and since hyperspace isn't real, the Empire is therefore impossible. Elves? One Ring? Pfft, Middle Earth isn't even a real place, besides how could hobbits even exist? Natural selection should have weeded them out forever ago.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

And how would we have counterattacked without aircraft carriers? Answer me that.

The US military wouldn't of counterattacked straight away. They would of been delayed. The end result would of been the same however.

If we had lost our aircraft carriers at Pearl Harbor, then the next step Yamamoto would of taken was to steam the Japanese navy to our west coast and invade.

Source? That is utter nonsense. You think the Japanese army was well equipped enough to invade the United States? Wow. They weren't even well equipped enough to invade Australia.

Tell me, how on Earth would they have managed to invade the USA, yet still fight off the numerous other nations in the pacific and hold their territory? Considering the fact the Russians would of came in earlier and it's even more ridiculous. Completely ridiculous.

The fact they missed the carriers is what keep them from moving their navy westward. After all, we would of have pretty much no way of stopping them. Aircraft are vital to naval warfare.

No aircraft carriers would of meant no Dolittle Raid, no taking of Midway, and no invasion of Okinawa, and no dropping of Fat Man and Little Boy.

Nope, it would of meant five other victories. Inflicted by other countries. The USA would of been hurt, but they would of got back on their feet. You'd be surprised how quickly a nation can build a few aircraft carriers during war.

Japan would of still lost. Their homefront couldn't hold them up. They simply lacked the resources for a war. And they knew this too, the whole thing was a desperate gamble to take land and power.

Source?

"The Japanese have a weak home front!"
"Yeah... a weak home front we can't get to! A lot of good that does us."
"We can just rebuild our aircraft carriers."
"Hmmm... those Japanese ships off the coast of California tell me other wise."

It amazes me how much America overestimates itself and underestimates others. History repeatedly teaches us how fragile power is, but we just refuse to listen.

There was another superpower that did the same thing. It was called the Roman Empire. While it's final fall was mostly caused internally, the Visigoths showed them how vulnerable they were when they sacked Rome itself. Yet another task declared impossible. Too bad they didn't learn anything from that, and kept of thinking of themselves as invincible.

If you insist on remaining naive, fine. Now when the US falls because it repeated the same mistakes the Roman Empire made, I want you to look in the mirror for who you see there will be the one of the many responsible for it.

 

[twistedmic]

The people who bring up the abundance of sophisticated computerized weaponry that the US has to offer when talking about Home Front seem o be forgetting about the EMP attack. As I've stated before, on a different thread, an EMP attack would completely wipe out all electronics, from simple digital watches all the way up to our RADAR and communications networks. Without all of the long range missiles, aircraft (planes and helicopters), ships, armor, vehicles and communication systems America will be severely weakened. Add to that the seventeen years of economic collapse and a massive pandemic, then America will most likely be just barely above a third world nation. I think all of that makes an invasion of America plausible but not likely.

 

[Wicky_42]

"The Japanese have a weak home front!"
"Yeah... a weak home front we can't get to! A lot of good that does us."
"We can just rebuild our aircraft carriers."
"Hmmm... those Japanese ships off the coast of California tell me other wise."

It amazes me how much America overestimates itself and underestimates others. History repeatedly teaches us how fragile power is, but we just refuse to listen.

There was another superpower that did the same thing. It was called the Roman Empire. While it's final fall was mostly caused internally, the Visigoths showed them how vulnerable they were when they sacked Rome itself. Yet another task declared impossible. Too bad they didn't learn anything from that, and kept of thinking of themselves as invincible.

If you insist on remaining naive, fine. Now when the US falls because it repeated the same mistakes the Roman Empire made, I want you to look in the mirror for who you see there will be the one of the many responsible for it.

/agree

The Japanese homefront rocked - they did some serious defending against the US retaliatory attacks, and though they weren't going to win by that stage they were hardly collapsing, just coming to the realisation that surrender was the only way out - then they got nuked...

You are right that the loss of the US Pacific carriers would have seriously crippled their ability to wage war in that theatre. Japanese ships might have been prevented from roaming the US coasts by ground-based aircraft, but Australia would have been lost as well as the rest of the Asian peninsular, and Japanese raids would have have slowed rebuilding attempts by the US.

Pulling the Atlantic fleet would hamper anti-U-boat operations and make supply lines to Europe vulnerable, hampering the war effort. Meanwhile, there was no other allied navy really active in the Pacific that could come the US's aid as far as I know. It could have been a very bloody war, and a very difficult one for the US to win outright, at least until the surrender of Germany and the possibility of Russian intervention, I guess.