The beauty of Origins is getting to know Alistair, Leiliana, Morganna, Ogryn and Shale and learning to endure Sten and the assassin moron. Its also about getting revenge by killing Howe and revenge for Ostagar. Then there is the lore about the darkspawn, the slavers, the people and guards of the city of Denerim, the crow assasin faction and so on and so on. After getting your party killed in a number of encounters, the game is also about learning to pause the game and organise your combat plan to work properly, by killing enemy spell casters ASAP amd micromanaging conflicts with tough monsters like dragons. It wasn't perfect by any means, but it was a decent western style RPG in the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinters Nights tradition. A game derived from the the Dungeons and Dragons tradition. The main point of Origins is telling a number of parallel stories. Sure it might be boring for gamers who prefer a different genre. Its not finally about creating gripping moment to moment gameplay, but at offering a long-winded inter-active story. Some people prefer their stories in classic fantasy context. Others might prefer them in GTA style, modern. D&D was a major game convention from the 70s so it has a lot of fans in the older demographics.
Ok before I start I should say I love RPGs. I have played the shit out of the Final Fantasy games, lots of hours in The Elder scroll titles, and sunk my teeth into Fallout 3 a bit.
You love action RPGs and JRPGs, DA:O is an entirely different kettle of soup.
I have been playing Dragon age Origins and I honestly cannot find the appeal to this game. I have met alot of people who have spend countless hours into this game but I just can't bring myself to get that far into it. I can only get to level 5ish before getting bored as fuck.
That's how I am with Skyrim and the likes now. After finsihing my first playthrough hoping it got better simply to say I finished it. Now, I can barely get past the tutorial without getting bored. Its just different sorts of RPGs for different RPG fans.
What is the apeal on this game that just seems to draw people into it? Cause I do not see it. Maybe if someone explained it to me I might have a better time...
1. Amazing characters and strong story. No, none of them are terribly original. They are done that well it doesn't matter too much.
2. Old style RPG combat. Not you're action RPG button mash combat, or your JRPG turn based combat, classic D&D styled RPG combat in real time. Turn up the difficulty and play against a boss, you'll be utilising tactics and trying your hardest to stay alive. It won't be easy. This sort of combat it was classic RPG fans crave, non of this First Person bullcrap.
3. The spells and shit. I mean, compare them to Skyrims spells and they are far more interesting. You've got you're generic spells, yes, but then you have spells that turn enemies into bombs and other wacky stuff. Add to that the spell combos - Try Blizzard and that Thunderstorm one. You get a crazy cyclone thing. Or Freeze them then do a rock punch or crushing prison. They Shatter. - and its quite fun to screw around with.
4. The world feels alive. Each character feels like a person. There are few, if any 'I work for Belathor, at the general goods store' characters. Even the barmaids have stories to tell.
5. No morals system, only the relationships you built up with your companions. Speaking of which you're companions weren't walking backpacks. They had personality, and you could set their AI up so they could handle themselves in a fight.
6. Not an open world, but a large one nonetheless. I honestly prefer Ferelden to Skyrim thanks to the detail put into each area to make it feel alive. In Skyrim, I'll travel around and find all these places that feel dead, or are extremely generic and done poorly. In DA:O, this is cut out and only the places they designed fully are included.
7. The awesome in game moments. Personally, dual wielding characters get it best IMO. Now, excluding the scene with the attack on Ostagar, which is just awesome, the finisher moves are far better than Skyrim's. Dragons for instance. In Skyrim, you jump onto it and brush its teeth (Or that's what it looks like) before jumping down and watching it die. In DA:O... just look at this poor quality vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o04PSJltSyY . Far more interesting.
On top of that, everything is a challenge on the right difficulty for you. Not overcomable, but it feels like an accomplishment to get something done. I can't recall how many times I was the last party member alive vsing that Ogre atop the tower at Ostagar, getting picked up by it, punched to within an inch of my life, then doing this to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91tKUBzCnvc
Did you get how much I love finishers, even though the videos are poorly made?
If you wonder why I'm comparing it to Skyrim, biggest Action RPG out ATM. What else am I going to compare it to?
Anyway, those are big reasons why people like it.
beniki said:
I just found the plot grinding to a halt after the Battle of Ostigar. I get that the side questing was necessary to gain allies, and to explore the new world they created, but after such a focused and well directed opening, the sudden shift to meandering adventure was a little jarring.
Ostagar*
It all depends on what you do then. Go to one of the four main story places for that point in time: Mage's Tower, Orzammar, Bresilian or W/E forest or Redcliff, and the story picks right back up. There are plenty of side quests, and many are as well constructed as the opening sequence. Ahh, but I see:
With each of the main quest locations, you lost the threat of the darkspawn. There was no real tension to get things done fast, and it just felt like filler. Good filler, but frustrating all the same.
Lose the threat of the Darkspawn? Go to Orzammar. Darkspawn all up in that place.
No tension to get things done fast? Umm...
Redcliff: The town is under attack. You don't prepare properly, people die. You don't fight well enough yourself, people die. I replayed that mission so many times as Murdoch has a deathwish and I wanted everyone to live. After that [spoilers]You find out that the Arl of Redcliff's son is inhabited by a Demon, and you have to get help from the Mages college before he kills more people, or sacrifice his wife there and then to cure the son. Talk about tension to get things done fast. You kill the wife, you took the easy and fast route out, but she's dead, Alistair isn't happy that part of the Arl's family is dead, the Arl loses his wife. If you go to the Mages tower, villagers in the town die whilst you fight your way to the mages, or get them to cross the lake.[/spoiler]
That, or
werewolves are killing the elves. You're reinforcements are dying if you don't stop this, so you've got to stop it. Sooner you stop them, more elves you save to fight. Not reflected in game of course, but not everything can be.
or
Demons have overrun the Mage's Tower, and if you don't stop them then the Templar will kill every living thing inside the tower - demon or not - and your reinforcements there are gone.
or
Civil war is breaking out amongst the Dwarves. They are getting close to killing each other after the king's death, and that means no reinforcements for you unless you can solve the problem. Faster you solve it, faster you can deal with the Darkspawn
Add to that the event that happens after you do a certain number of main story quests in which
Lothering disappears from your map, and you are told it was conquered by Darkspawn
, or the gradual progression of the Blight across the map as you finish main story missions.
The gameplay itself can drag on a bit at times, but there is always a clear goal for you.
I never actually finished Origins... I can see why people liked it, but my overall impression was like the OP. I just got bored of it quickly.
Fair enough. The final mission is brilliantly crafted, and you really missed out on some awesomeness if you missed it. it also contains the biggest battle in the whole game.
I think it could have been scripted a bit better. Keep the plot lines as they are, but make it part of the general retreat from the Darkspawn horde. Instead of just a small party, you're leading a group of refugees to safety, hoping to get help at each stop. Maybe you'll have to fight some desperate rear guard actions, or watch hopelessly as your allies fall under siege, finally ending up at Denerim with an army at your back, and nowhere else to run.
You eventually end up at Denerim, but not to defend it. Its already fallen. You have to retake it. It isn't a matter of 'nowhere else to run', its a matter of 'Get to the Archdemon. That's the point of being a Grey Warden. The gathering of armies really is just largely to distract the main Darkspawn force whilst you get to the Archdemon and kill it. There is another Grey Warden that tries, but he fails and falls to his death. Its all or nothing, but not in a desperate defensive. Its a desperate offensive against an enemy to decapitate them there and then, before Ferelden falls.
I'm also not a fan of making it linear, nor you leading the refugees. It doesn't make a lot of sense really. The linearity... no. Leading the refugees... You're a grey Warden. You're outlaws. They are more likely to fight you than to follow you if they know who you are, and really, why would they follow you to get your allies? They're refugees. They're running from the fight rather than trying to help prepare for it.
The way it works is good. You lose the battle at Ostagar, and are left stranded in a world with both IC and OOC no idea what to do. From there, you follow your gut and gather an army to fight against the Darkspawn, and eventually prevail.
The sort of story you described would do better in a survival horror game, not a fantasy epic.
Buuut, that's just personal choice. Kind of wish there was more coherency between meta-plot and each stopping point. Overal, it felt like a coincidental bad week across the whole country, even without the darkspawn invasion...
Pretty much. Hell, even Morrigan pointed out that everyone loves having problems when the Darkspawn are invading. Once all that's done though, and you've gathered your factions, everything gets right back on track.
Oh, and could someone tell me: Do you HAVE to recruit all the races and do their quests, or can you
Just do Eamon's quest, finish the landsmeet, then tell Eamon you're ready, and have the Darkspawn invade with just you and Redcliff to defend against them.
. I'm pretty sure you can't, the intro to the end cinematic wouldn't make much sense otherwise, but it would be cool if you could.
Well I'm from the exact opposite stand point, I loved DA:O, while Fallout 3 and the TES series holds little appeal to me. Indeed if I was so inclined I could just as easily create a topic saying "I don't get the appeal of Skyrim", I wont as that would quickly turn into flamebait and that is not my intention.
It comes down to the RPG label being a little vague at the best of times. The Bioware games are a different beast to large open world RPGs such as TES. But since we're talking about DA:O and its appeal I'll say a few things.
I thought the characters were compelling enough to keep playing, Alister's playful defensiveness was a particular high point of the writing to me. Also Loghain made a very good antagonist and helped add to the tone of the game. The tactical combat was a throwback to earlier games such as Baldur's Gate (which from my avatar you can assume I'm a fan), and so that was good for those of us that had missed that style of fighting.
But in the end if you're not enjoying it, then don't play it. Not everyone can enjoy everything. However, if you feel it could get better for you if you continue then you might find, or even start to agree, with the appeal of the game.
What is the apeal on this game that just seems to draw people into it? Cause I do not see it. Maybe if someone explained it to me I might have a better time...
(First up, I'm not normally a player of RPGs. So this may affect my opinion.)
Things I like about DAO:
-> I find the characters more interesting and sympathetic than most other games I've played. As in, I sometimes found myself having completely optional conversations to find out more about them.
-> Some of the humour is actually quite funny.
-> Talky-choices-that-cause-you-to-get-attacked make the conversation trees an almost-exciting bit of gameplay.
-> No "good" or "evil" actions. The only measure you have for how morally just (or not) you're being is the opinions of other characters.
Things I don't like about DAO:
-> The combat is slow, un-engaging and often fiddly.
-> Further to the above, some dungeons seem to drag on for days before you get the next bit of actual plot.
-> It seems epically long. I still haven't finished it.
The story is about what I want from a game. No complaints there, but no huge accolades either.
OP, are you playing on PC or on console? I've played both ways, and I've gotta say I preferred PC. The combat is different between them. On PC it felt much more tactical, whereas the limited controls on XBOX made it more like an adventure game.
Also surprised no one's mentioned this, but I really enjoyed getting into the modded content provided by the fan community. There was some interesting adds that made the game better for me, like giving your mabari a summoned pet status so they could always be there (giving you a party of five), an option to hide the frigging helmet slot (which they got their act together with for The Old Republic. Good move Bioware, those helms are FUGLY!), and the chance to learn to shape your spells for less, and eventually no, friendly fire damage. I can't tell you how many times Alistair got frozen solid because he jumped into the path of my Cone of Cold. Damn it boy, you may be adorable, but look before you leap. Then there were purely cosmic adds, like whiter teeth (jeezus, I know you're supposed to be medieval England, but still, brown teeth? REALLY?!) and hair that didn't look like it was carved out of wood.
Also, interestingly, this is the one bioware game I've played so far (both Mass Effects of date, TOR, and Jade Empire) that doesn't rate you as good or evil over all. There is no Light side/Dark side, Open Palm/Closed Fist, Paragon/Renegade bar. Instead, the choices you make are responded to differently by each companion. This, I felt, led to a more interaction based sort of playing. Instead of being concerned that it's going to affect my neat little bar, I thought about how my companions would react. My Elf Mage combination healer/dps who played mostly with Alistair for tank, Leliana for Rogue, and Wynne as heals made mostly good decisions because that was who she was, and those were the sort of decisions approved of by her companions. My archer who played with Sten, Zevran and Morrigan for back up made more reasoned, if darker choices, because those characters were less idealistic (or in the case of Sten had very different ideals).
I had a similar reaction when playing it, i was thinking all the time: umm is this what everyone is so hyped, and yes after the large prologue ends it gets better , however i would suggest you to download the dragon age redesigned pack from dragon nexus, it changes nothing in gameplay just makes dao look better, cause ugh the game its great but visually, god its horrendous bioware should hire modders to create the faces for their games xD the modded versions are always WAY betterXD.
Eh. There's only so many times you can play the same setting in games without losing appeal. After a while it just becomes another slog through the same generic fantasy world, the only real change being the terminology.
Personally I find Bioware's modern dialogue writing to be very very boring, which doesn't help my enjoyment in the slightest.
Yah I felt the same when I got it, I was like "this is boring but I've paid for it so I'll continue I guess". But then I got to the battle of Ostagar and suddenly it really came alive for me.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you haven't got to that bit yet, don't give it up until you have.
edit: come to think of it, that was exactly how I felt when I first played Mass Effect too, Maybe Bioware need to work on the beginnings of their games.
"Ok before I start I should say I love RPGs. I have played the shit out of the Final Fantasy games, lots of hours in The Elder scroll titles, and sunk my teeth into Fallout 3 a bit."
Well, none of those are like Dragon Age. Your first sentence should have been: "I like these types of RPGs."
Simply being told what people like about it isn't going to change what you (dis)like about it.
It does have a relatively slow start though, so give it a go. Its their best use of choice and consequence in any of their modern RPGs, its nice and political, the world and lore is interesting (although you'll have to wait to start scratching the surface, which does appear to be fairly generic to begin with).
Ok before I start I should say I love RPGs. I have played the shit out of the Final Fantasy games, lots of hours in The Elder scroll titles, and sunk my teeth into Fallout 3 a bit.
I have been playing Dragon age Origins and I honestly cannot find the appeal to this game. I have met alot of people who have spend countless hours into this game but I just can't bring myself to get that far into it. I can only get to level 5ish before getting bored as fuck.
What is the apeal on this game that just seems to draw people into it? Cause I do not see it. Maybe if someone explained it to me I might have a better time...
There is no appeal, the graphics look horrible for a game released in 2009 and the combat is just a clickfest (MMO style). I just don't understand why everyone says Bioware games have great stories. What is so great about the story in Dragon Age Origins? It's just another political story. The characters are annoying. Allister is whiny and Morrigan ALWAYS disapproves. That's the only two characters I can think of right now because I have played through it only once and that was over 2 years ago.
If you're comparing it to Elder Scrolls games, you probably quickly noticed the lack of freedom and the invisible walls. What really confuses me is how much Bioware games resemble JRPG's but somehow they don't get treated harshly like JRPG's do.
I enjoyed DAO a lot, but then again, I enjoyed it differently from a lot of others. I played a mage, but personally enjoyed the Fade quests as one of the best in the game. Many people hated Zevran and Sten, but they were my two favorite characters, and I kept them with me at all times. A word to the wise though: if you are having a difficult time getting into the game, try playing through it as a mage. I personally couldn't finish the first quest line as a rouge, but loved playing it as a mage. Oh, and go to the Urn of Sacred Ash first. It's one that tends to keep exciting.
Same here, but I grew up on action games and fighters, so that might have greatly sullied my enjoyment of the combat engine (as I detest a combat system that's dictated almost entirely by numbers, and that goes for the KotOR games). I can't tell you how many times I was tripping over the fact that there was no roll/dodge, block, or even an attack button.
The story, the characters, that's what drew me in.....
Sassafrass said:
So yeah, the appeal is in the story and characters, seeing as almost all of the characters[footnote]Go fuck yourself, Zevran. Oh wait, you already have![/footnote]
Do yourself a favor and get this [http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=2577] mod. It speeds up the combat animations enough that it doesn't look like everyone is fighting underwater. That alone improves things a lot for me.
I just found the plot grinding to a halt after the Battle of Ostigar. I get that the side questing was necessary to gain allies, and to explore the new world they created, but after such a focused and well directed opening, the sudden shift to meandering adventure was a little jarring.
...
With each of the main quest locations, you lost the threat of the darkspawn. There was no real tension to get things done fast, and it just felt like filler. Good filler, but frustrating all the same.
I didn't have the same issues as you did, I found I did not mind the chaotic calm following that initial storm and enjoyed the story point that here was the Darkspawn flexing its muscle, we can see precisely what is in store for the rest of the world and I enjoyed the sense of building dread.
That said, I was also a little confused as to where the hell this gigantic army of Darkspawn had basically disappeared to and why, following that point and all the way through to the end, we never really saw them in that great a number again, encountering what can only really be called scouting forces, regardless of where we went.
Regardless, overall I enjoyed the game. I did not feel it was perfect, but I enjoyed it enough to play through it three times now in total.
I will not defend Awakening, which I felt was atrocious, buggy nonsense (the storyline trips over its own feet and proceeds to violently shit all over itself) and I won't bother to bring up DA2, lest the thread explode into violent hyperbole. (PEOPLE DIDN'T LIKE DA2 SO MUCH.)
Joshimodo said:
Does this really warrant a thread? Especially this long after it came out.
Sten is awesome, man! Earn his respect, and he becomes your bro for life. He even invites you to come back to Qunaritown at the end of the game so he can show everyone how badass you are.
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