NSA + FBI Files Leaked, Massive Snooping on Millions of Americans

[Nurb]

Why is anyone surprised, Obama made parts of the Patriot Act permanent and expanded Bush's domestic spying policies. He's a spineless 70's republican that's done nothing for personal liberties or government transparency. Enjoy your Black Bush.

yeah it always makes me laugh when I hear people talk about how much better Obama is and how Bush is the devil.

Well, Obama IS better and Bush WORKS for the devil (Karl Rove), he's just not good enough.

 

[frizzlebyte]

The problem is, what if I go to get a government job, and someone who is on the hiring staff doesn't like the things I've accessed or written in my emails, which they have to access to do a background check? The "I don't do anything wrong, so it can't hurt me," is all well and good , but who's to say what is and isn't okay? This is a slippery slope, and that argument ain't always a fallacy.

I think you're forgetting that we're talking about Homeland Security and the FBI. I highly doubt your average civil servant is going to have any sort of access to that. Even in a background check, hell the very fact that you brought that up says to me you don't even understand what a background check is. A background check is a compilation of criminal, commercial, and financial records. They're used to confirm past employment, credit history, and criminal history. Nothing "personal" is ever a part of the process, and never will be because private companies can do a check as well as the government.

Well, all I can say is "never say never." Growing up in the shadow of 9/11 and the resulting explosion of privacy-invading government overreach, I've learned to take nothing for granted these days. We certainly are seeing a growth of corporatism and shocking levels of corporate-government collaboration, so who's to say that "private companies" won't do the same kind of background checks I'm talking about? For a while, some companies certainly were keen to get at your Facebook password as part of the "hiring process." I sure wouldn't want to be so naive as to think it could stop there.

And for the record, yes, I can assure you that I know what a background check is, despite what my post supposedly "says" about my knowledge of same.

 

[Animyr]

Haven't they had the power to do that for like a decade? Didn't this exact same thing happen during the Bush era? This sounds like pretty old news, except maybe they made it bigger and shinier then before.

Also, some severe cognitive dissonance is probably going to be occurring on both sides of the American political spectrum as they try to choose a stance on this.

 

[Devil's Due]

Ohnoez, they know I got a call from my boyfriend last week about which theater we were going to see Iron Man 3 at! MY LIFE HAS BEEN RUINED BY THIS INVASION OF MY PRIVACY!!!!!!!!!!!

...Yeah, that's more or less how I feel about it. I sort of thought phone carriers were required to keep phone records, anyway. And with so much conversation moving from straight phone calls to emails and social networking, the idea that they would also want some of that data isn't surprising at all. Again, I sort of thought that was already being done already.

I sort of fell like people who get really freaked out by this stuff are either very arrogant, or just very poor at keeping things in perspective. Like yeah, the government has your web history and emails you've sent. So scary, right? But what exactly are they going to do with that? Surreptitiously send your browser history to your spouse and show them the porn you stream? Forward that email about a surprise birthday party to the friend you were having the party for? Bring you up on charges based on that lasagna you snap chatted to your aunt? Shit on a stick. They've got better things to be doing than assigning five agents to investigate that conversation you had with your mother about what to get your dad for Father's day.

The problem with this is what it can set up and lead to. In the United States, we are innocent until proven guilty. However, these sort of actions basically allow the government to view us as suspicious until proven otherwise, regardless if there's any reason to be or not to. Based on your argument, would you be fine if the government installed cameras into all your rooms in your house, including your bedroom and bathroom, because you're obviously not doing anything wrong in there so there's no issue for them not to.

 

[Rocket Taco]

This just in: the NSA spies on the internet and your phone. Ones of people shocked.

This is mostly an NSA activity, and that is what they do. The agency is America's electronic intelligence arm, and with more and more of our enemies being non-state actors, they're flailing around trying to find something to target.

Also:

An author of the Patriot Act -- the legislation used to justify the program -- added he is "extremely disturbed by what appears to be an overbroad interpretation of the act."

WHAT THE HELL DID YOU THINK THEY WERE GOING TO DO WITH IT

 

[Ryotknife]

I sorta expect our government to do this. Yea, I think it is immoral, and a lot of people would probably find it immoral. However, I think that is due to a lack of perspective. If we worked in Intelligence and saw how the world really turned, with the fate of millions in the balance, we would probably sing a different tune. But of course society can not condone such a immoral act no matter the reasons, regardless if it is a necessary evil or not. Then again they are not the ones making the tough decisions.

That said, I do expect the government to put up a convincing façade.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Personally I have nothing to hide and I don't really care if some NSA flunky sees how long I talked to my mom last Sunday, so this doesn't really bother me much even though I am a Verizon customer, however it's certainly not unreasonable for people to get pissed about this. Privacy is very important to some people, and they have the right to have that privacy respected. Do I think anything more nefarious than an invasion of privacy was going on with this? No, not really. But still, it does set a bad precedent.

 

[Floppertje]

This just in: the NSA spies on the internet and your phone. Ones of people shocked.

This is mostly an NSA activity, and that is what they do. The agency is America's electronic intelligence arm, and with more and more of our enemies being non-state actors, they're flailing around trying to find something to target.

Also:

An author of the Patriot Act -- the legislation used to justify the program -- added he is "extremely disturbed by what appears to be an overbroad interpretation of the act."

WHAT THE HELL DID YOU THINK THEY WERE GOING TO DO WITH IT

This. Both of this.
I think it's kinda disturbing because sod off, it's none of your damn business what I do with my internet time and i don't like people looking over my shoulder. that said, the only thing I was surprised at is that they took the trouble to actually DO it. I mean... I always knew they WANTED to, but... that's a buttload of data to mine through... Didn't think they'd actually bother to sift through it all.

 

[Vivid Kazumi]

Now, to get this out of the way,

do they have a dedicated unit to sift through people's digital porn stashes? You know, a unit with extra mental fortitude training. Rule 34 is weeeeeeeird.

Now, it also seems the government and the corporations are in cahoots! That's going to cause some fun responses from some people.

less buddy then you think it sounds like.the government never "ask" they bully company's to do this crap. OT:WOOT more scandals in washington.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

God I hope they don't look at the porn I watch...

Those poor men at the NSA.

 

[Fox12]

Is everyone enjoying Bush's 4th term? We need a Libertarian leaning candidate bad. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are willing to hold their candidates accountable. And why do people think the Republicans and Democrats hate each other? McCain and Obama are in bed together, they're best friends.

 

[Korolev]

I am very interest to know how much of that data they can keep. They'd be getting millions of messages, every day at least - maybe even every couple of hours. Even the NSA doesn't have infinite storage space, so for how long do they keep that data before wiping it off to store new data? I'd be impressed if they could keep about a month's worth of "internet" stored and ready for analysis.

Well, I sorta thought something like this was going on. I remember when I was in highschool (2003), my physics teacher told us about a site in Pine Gap in Australia that's home to a massive US military facility with huge radar domes (Radomes). I remember him telling me that the purpose of that facility was to essentially monitor all radio traffic and signals that it could detect and store, including satellite transmissions. There were some documentaries which hinted that it could do a lot more than that - that these facilities (there are some in the UK) could monitor a great deal more.

I don't know if the Pine Gap facility is involved with this PRISM stuff (it probably isn't), but the US has always wanted to spy on stuff, and it was only a matter of time until they got the means to do it.

Well, I'd say write to your local US politician, except 1) The US is a two party system and 2) Neither the Democrats or the Republicans will give this up. There's this thing called the Bipartisan agreement on Foreign Policy and National Security - that is, the two main parties have already agreed to pretty much do the same thing when it comes to Foreign Policy or National Security. They're not going to give this power up unless the US people force them to.... and I don't think most Americans care all that much.

 

[Esotera]

I'm quite interested in how they actually collected some of this data, as there seems to be an implication that they intercepted some of the data without help of the companies. I can't say I'm surprised as there are probably tons of these programs but I'm still not happy with it at all, especially with GCHQ's apparent complicity.

And what's the deal with everyone's response to this? The people in charge are just saying over and over again that this is a necessary tool in the hope that it will make it ok. Mass surveillance is never ok...

 

[ShipofFools]

Big Mother is watching you guys.
Doesn't the American government trust it's own citizens? Has the divide between politics and every day life become so great?
Well, then.

You know what to do.

 

[Mcupobob]

Yeah just heard about this, not surprised from Obama's administration. However I don't think Verizon was coerced, they're one of those companies that gets buttloads of subsides and government contracts. Prolly raked in a good pay day to give up those records.

 

[Wadders]

Hahahahahahahaha!

I find this incredibly funny. I'm not American so I can do that.

I have no doubt that my own government is looking more over my shoulder than I realise but I'd prefer they come talk to me directly rather than simply watching. It'd make for a more interesting day. Who knows, I might be able to talk my way into some work for them. There are worse careers than Big-Brothering the general populace who I have no real affinity for. I wouldn't care either way if I found somebody who was up to no good, I could just report them and be done with it. Move onto the next random.

Oh don't worry, we're probably being watching too. Although it seems to be unclear how much ministers know about it.

I can't say I'm at all surprised.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/07/uk-gathering-secret-intelligence-nsa-prism

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22824379

I understand your sentiment - a kind of 'if you're innocent you have nothing to fear' but understandably some people get pretty shirty when they think their private stuff, messages to loved ones, pictures of their children etc. is being sifted through by some fella in an office who, although probably bound by some kind of confidentiality agreement, can pretty much do what he wants with all of that information.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I sort of fell like people who get really freaked out by this stuff are either very arrogant, or just very poor at keeping things in perspective. Like yeah, the government has your web history and emails you've sent. So scary, right? But what exactly are they going to do with that? Surreptitiously send your browser history to your spouse and show them the porn you stream? Forward that email about a surprise birthday party to the friend you were having the party for? Bring you up on charges based on that lasagna you snap chatted to your aunt? Shit on a stick. They've got better things to be doing than assigning five agents to investigate that conversation you had with your mother about what to get your dad for Father's day.

Is it really so hard to imagine a repeat of McCarthyism or something similar that led to people being arrested for their political beliefs? It's a big joke now but what happens when they start sifting through emails to establish who the most active members of your union are, or use your internet history to discover what other political beliefs you may have that they don't like. I'll never understand these "lulz what could happen" attitudes, as if no government could possibly have anything other than benevolent intentions with the information it gathers from its citizens.

 

[Kevlar Eater]

Then if it goes that far that'll get cleared up in litigation. Best case scenario: you settle with the government and either get nothing or a few million for the mishap. Worst case scenario: you're dead on the street because the government hired a hit and their better translator was out to lunch when they went through your emails.

This is the American government we're talking about. They wouldn't stand for being sued and allowing you to live after you win your case for very long. Your worst case scenario is your best; only thing is, a government branch would send an assassin/cleaner team, with the cleaner having the job of erasing your physical existence via your bathtub, some hydrochloric acid and a bone grinder, while the government erases everything else upon confirmation of your death. It would be like wishing you were never born, and the wish was granted. Worst case: you get expedited to a country that allows for Jack Bauer Interrogation Techniques [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JackBauerInterrogationTechnique], only they and the tormentors/killers know you don't have anything of worth; the government wanted you gone.

Not to fret, I read the rest of your post. It's just the quoted part that was worth singling out.

 

[Fox12]

I sort of fell like people who get really freaked out by this stuff are either very arrogant, or just very poor at keeping things in perspective. Like yeah, the government has your web history and emails you've sent. So scary, right? But what exactly are they going to do with that? Surreptitiously send your browser history to your spouse and show them the porn you stream? Forward that email about a surprise birthday party to the friend you were having the party for? Bring you up on charges based on that lasagna you snap chatted to your aunt? Shit on a stick. They've got better things to be doing than assigning five agents to investigate that conversation you had with your mother about what to get your dad for Father's day.

Is it really so hard to imagine a repeat of McCarthyism or something similar that led to people being arrested for their political beliefs? It's a big joke now but what happens when they start sifting through emails to establish who the most active members of your union are, or use your internet history to discover what other political beliefs you may have that they don't like. I'll never understand these "lulz what could happen" attitudes, as if no government could possibly have anything other than benevolent intentions with the information it gathers from its citizens.

Exactly! Just look at the government watch lists for potential terrorists! Peaceful protesters, those who criticize the government, third party advocates, and other dissenters are classified as potential terrorists. Even veterans who have come to question the government are being discredited, and placed on this list. We've already seen that the IRS is more than happy to abuse groups that fall outside their interests. Look at the Japanese internment camps in WW2, or McCarthyism, or the Sedition Act that TWICE made it illegal to criticize the government. The government can and will abuse its power.

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

Hahahahahahahaha!

I find this incredibly funny. I'm not American so I can do that.

I have no doubt that my own government is looking more over my shoulder than I realise but I'd prefer they come talk to me directly rather than simply watching. It'd make for a more interesting day. Who knows, I might be able to talk my way into some work for them. There are worse careers than Big-Brothering the general populace who I have no real affinity for. I wouldn't care either way if I found somebody who was up to no good, I could just report them and be done with it. Move onto the next random.

Indeed, it would be quite a fun job.

The logistics of monitoring everyones data is rather staggering, but hey, it doesn't affect me directly, so I don't mind.