Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

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scythecow

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Aug 30, 2010
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If one is too broke to justify or to even afford buying music, one may find a way to download it for free... else one would go slightly more old-fashioned and just burn CDs from friends' albums. Most of the "potential profit" doesn't actually exist. It's more like "theoretical profit." Yeah, charging some teenagers with six-figure lawsuits is probably going to hurt the industry and promote piracy more than anything, because then some people are going to feel like they're fighting this oppressive system. I always despised DRM. I feel rather cheated when I buy something that includes horribly designed software which is easily bypassed by pirates but makes the product inconvenient for everyone.

To pretend you can prove artists' livelihoods have been destroyed by piracy is silly. It's all theory. They took a risk and it didn't work. Maybe that would've happened with ZERO piracy just because of the economy or most people think their music sucks. Being "award-winning" doesn't necessarily mean entitlement to profits.

The issue is more complex than "just plain theft." In a lot of countries, pirated copies are the only copies available of many things. If we're talking just United States... then it still isn't necessarily theft. Again, lots of theory. I know that people try out the full product in this way before deciding if it's worth their money. How many people? You can theorize. You could argue that piracy has actually stimulated the music industry. You could argue it's bringing it to ruin.

You can argue, but you can't prove a thing, because it's not actual physical theft. There's no way to get anything near an accurate estimate of how much of what has been pirated and then not purchased, or what would've otherwise been legally purchased.

Then there's the issue of pirating things that, if they had been bought, would not have financially aided the artists anyway. Still theoretical theft, but from who? A vendor, a label?

I WISH piracy would ruin the career of a lot of horrible artists. I'd happily download Nickelback's discography a million times over if it would end them. Unfortunately, it would do nothing. It might, however, make the label claim they've lost a few billion "potential" dollars.

I don't think this is the time to make a stand or put any resources into the piracy war.
 

oranger

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jasoncyrus said:
Locke then lamented the fate of songwriters. "Recently, I've had a chance to read letters from award winning writers and artists whose livelihoods have been destroyed by music piracy. One letter that stuck out for me was a guy who said the songwriting royalties he had depended on to 'be a golden parachute to fund his retirement had turned out to be a lead balloon.' This just isn't right."
He should've got himself a REAL job then and done like everyone else and put money away that he actually EARNED. (que flaming contraversy).

Yes there is reason to give him money for having done such a thing. But not so much that he can make his retirement off it. Unless he's written thousands upon thousands of songs. At which point I somewhat doubt pirac has wrecked his idiot pension plan unless all he ever wrote were say...britney spears songs.
I was gonna say that. Dammit.
The publisher sure got paid I bet.
 

StriderShinryu

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Deshin said:
StriderShinryu said:
Except if the publisher/developer don't make enough money off of a title to fund a sequel or re-visit a good idea. Sadly, the videogame industry is a business and doesn't run on good ideas alone.
So would it be ok to pirate Modern Warfare 2 because they made enough cash from that game to stack pennies to the sun and back and still have enough leftover to make a few rings around Venus? There are too many variables and shades of grey for anyone to morally (and legally) draw a line on the consequences of piracy to industries and individuals. But it's always fun to try.
I suppose if any sort of title could benefit from that sort of distribution it probably would be something that's already huge. It's the only way they'd be able to get into even more people's mindspace Hehe

You're quite right about the actual dollar to dollar impact of piracy being virtually impossible to prove though some distributors have tried (and done admirably). There are always going to be back doors and gaps that can be used. Heck, just look at the recently published case of the person running their own for profit WoW server.

My personal issue is simply that if you want a certain type of game to be made you need to support it. And right now the only real tangible way to do so is to pony up the cash and actually buy it. Talking about it amongst friends or on the good old internet is great, but that doesn't make the publishers any money, and if the pubs aren't getting money off a certain title they're not going to assist a developer in the making of "Great Game 2.0." Games like CoD keep getting made not because they're great games (which they may or may not be, it actually doesn't matter) but because not only does everyone talk about them but they also go out and buy them. For every BG&E2 or Last Guardian that does manage to sort of get by on only a loud fanbase, there are tons of games that deserve continuation but never get it because they just didn't sell.
 

Alden Hou

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heres the good thing about piracy, you can try the games/songs to find out if they're shitty, i always buy a game if it's good when i download it.
 

Gildan Bladeborn

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MisterShine said:
As opposed to a pirate, who for sake of argument, lets say goes out and buys a game, copies it, cracks it, and then puts up the crack for tens/hundreds/thousands/millions of people to take it and use it themselves, when they did not purchase the right to do so. They took something that they did not have a right to, thus they stole it. I think differentiating between legal definitions and what we say either on forums or on speeches to a symposium in Nashville are allowed to be different.
Yes, if everyone who bought used titles now pirated them instead, 3rd parties like Gamestop would face loses because of piracy - obviously I don't particularly care about them, and while I'm fully aware that rights of resale are a well established facet of transactional economy, as a PC gamer I effectively don't have any such right anyways - I can't even return opened software, only exchange it.

But ignoring all that, none of the semantics change the fact that two games/cds/dvds/etc, sold at the same price and produced for the same initial cost, if they both sell [x] amount of units, will make exactly the same amount of money regardless of how many times either of them is pirated; game #1 could have 1,000 illegal copies floating around the nets, and game #2 could have 1,000,000, but if they both sold 40,000 copies, then they both sold 40,000 copies. There is simply no way to equate that reality with the concept of "flat, unadulterated theft" - differentiating between legal definitions and what we say in public symposiums and online is bloody important, because people NEED to know the difference.

Whenever you see news stories about increasingly draconian DRM, or ludicrous fees levied against people who used filesharing applications, you'll see whole hosts of misguided forum-goers agreeing with the companies eroding their rights and treating paying customers like thieves, agreeing with strongarm tactics employed against scapegoats, people not questioning the industry line when that industry line is comprised of bullshit.

I don't think you should pirate stuff. In point of fact, I think it pretty much makes you a jerk - as it stands now though copyright law is a gross parody of the original intention, and the rhetoric about piracy, as delivered from those 'combating' it, is comprised of little more than gross speculation and outright fabrications, couched in terms deliberately intended to be misleading. The folks giving the Obama administration money want them to equate piracy with theft, because people know "theft is wrong", and they want you to think piracy is killing their industries (because of all those people stealing from them!). They want you to think this because they want you to agree with them when they employ under-handed tactics that erode your rights as a consumer, rather than crying foul as you quite rightly should.

Letting the fallacy that theft and copyright infringement are essentially the same stand unquestioned, in spite of the facts that there is nothing stolen when copyright is infringed and each unauthorized copy cannot even be attributed to a sale lost (people who pirate might have no money in the first place, might never have even considered buying the product if they couldn't pirate, etc) while theft is taking somebody else's property away from them, is therefore injurious to a reasoned defence of consumer rights and something we should not let slide because "in essence, they're the same". They are not.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Piracy is not theft, its copyright infringement.

THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!

I really wish someone who actually understood technology was in power. Instead we have people who haven't caught up with technology and are talking about things they have no clue about. They're only sources of info being the corporations and they're not exactly known as friendly entities spreading truth.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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Yes, piracy is bad. Glad your on the train with us, Mr. President.

Not like I don't do it. Most movies, animes, and TV shows I watch are something I find on the worldwide interwebz.

Well, so much for ACTA getting abolished. Goodbye Internet, I loved you.
 

Dancingman

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Is piracy genuine theft? Why yes it is, since theft is defined as taking something that is not one's own. Thank you for reading me the dictionary Mr. President.
 

Vuljatar

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Further proof (as if we needed any more) that the Obama administration has a tenuous grasp of capitalism and economics at best...
 

Dags90

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Irridium said:
Piracy is not theft, its copyright infringement.

THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!

I really wish someone who actually understood technology was in power. Instead we have people who haven't caught up with technology and are talking about things they have no clue about. They're only sources of info being the corporations and they're not exactly known as friendly entities spreading truth.
It's really not even that. Having plenty of lawyers, Obama's Admin. should know better than to say something so asinine. Sure they probably aren't criminal or copyright lawyers, but I mean it shouldn't be hard for him to see that there are real legal differences.
 

MisterShine

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Mar 9, 2010
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Motoko Minato said:
Not to go off topic or anything, but... How would this ACTA work without infringing upon the rights of Americans?
XT inc said:
Simple they bend your rights over a table, yank down its pants and give them a nice unlubricated probing with no permission [ they dont need a warrant]. Its okay though I'm sure they wont use this to search houses just because they have data storing devices.
To help assuage this fear, I'll repost this from another thread:

MisterShine said:
Assuming you live in America, (I apologize, I didn't check your profile) I can put this fear to rest.

from wikipedia, on US Treaty law:

Wikipedia said:
Additionally, an international accord that is inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution is void under domestic U.S. law, the same as any other federal law in conflict with the Constitution.
Therefore, this provision of ACTA would be illegal without the repeal of at least two articles of the bill of rights that I can think of.

sanitornator said:
Now I want to know the difference between accepting the deal that a big name company like Netflix is offering and watching these movies via pirating; and why one is illegal and the other is not.
Happy to answer this one for you, and welcome to the Escapist.

That fee you pay Netflix to watch all those movies "for free"? Netflix uses that money to pay the companies that produce those movies/tv shows to distribute them to Netflix's customers, aka, you. Just like how rental and movie theaters work.
 

Plurralbles

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Jan 12, 2010
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Mr. president, learn economics.

it might be theft, but the rewards of doing it is just too much and the cost for not stealing is too high.

When companies support the FREE FUCKING MARKET and stop their cartels and price fixing we'll talk.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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really -.- doesn't he have anything better to do? like go on vacation, again, or send his wife an kids over seas to go shopping, or something -.-

so can't wait till this idiot is outa office
 

Alden Hou

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Mar 19, 2010
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ALuckyChance said:
Well, from what I know about pirated PC copies, most of them can't access multiplayer (don't want online verification of a bad copy, after all), and can't give out trophies as achievements usually use Windows Live or Steam. Not to mention, many pirated PC games downgrade the cutscene quality to save download space.

So, you could say that a pirated game (again, probably only for PC's) is inferior to a paid-for copy.
First of all, multiplayer on most games these days are shit, filled with hackers and whiny 8 year olds, second, if you give a fuck about achievements, you(not you, just generally speaking) are a pretentious douchebag, third, most of us don't give a crap about cutscene quality, if it's good enough to see the terrorists face, its okay, graphics don't make the game, the story and gameplay do: [see: half life, counter strike, portal, contra]. so although i do agree pirated games are of reduced quality, the features removed are mostly superficial and redundant, not to mention a big chunk of the gaming community pirates games to try them out, i never regretted buying a game because i only buy the ones i enjoyed on the pirated version.
 

xDarc

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Feb 19, 2009
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I'm sorry. I just don't see how downloading a copy of something; which doesn't cost anyone anything to produce- which I wouldn't get if I had to pay for it anyway, is the same as stealing hard goods.

It's not.

If anything- they should outlaw libraries because writers, on average, only make $2 an hour. Why let people read their books for free?
 

Tdc2182

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AndyFromMonday said:
I just lost respect for this administration.
Because he just told it how it is?

Piracy is in fact, stealing content that you have not paid for. Doesn't mean that I am not gonna stop. It also doesnt mean that I am gonna beat myself up over it.

But Piracy is stealing. Its something that is kind of stupid to deny.
 

ALuckyChance

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Alden Hou said:
ALuckyChance said:
Well, from what I know about pirated PC copies, most of them can't access multiplayer (don't want online verification of a bad copy, after all), and can't give out trophies as achievements usually use Windows Live or Steam. Not to mention, many pirated PC games downgrade the cutscene quality to save download space.

So, you could say that a pirated game (again, probably only for PC's) is inferior to a paid-for copy.
First of all, multiplayer on most games these days are shit, filled with hackers and whiny 8 year olds, second, if you give a fuck about achievements, you(not you, just generally speaking) are a pretentious douchebag, third, most of us don't give a crap about cutscene quality, if it's good enough to see the terrorists face, its okay, graphics don't make the game, the story and gameplay do: [see: half life, counter strike, portal, contra]. so although i do agree pirated games are of reduced quality, the features removed are mostly superficial and redundant, not to mention a big chunk of the gaming community pirates games to try them out, i never regretted buying a game because i only buy the ones i enjoyed on the pirated version.
It doesn't matter what you think about multiplayer OR achievements, and your statement is almost purely opinionated. The fact is that without the online capabilities of a game that supports it, you are playing a game of inferior quality (or at least quantity) than the original game.

Also, (just throwing it out here) some pirated games remove cutscenes entirely.