Obesity Discrimination

[RafaelNegrus]

snip

Alright, since you don't care about the United States, how about Britain? 22 percent of British adults are obese, and that number is estimated to go up to a third of the population by 2020. Do you not care about them either? Here's a ranking of the world's fattest countries and you can finds the ones you do care about http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/worlds-fattest-countries-forbeslife-cx_ls_0208worldfat_2.html

(although this combines overweight and obese together, so the numbers are pretty high)

The frightening thing is that this number of people is supposed to grow by 40 percent over the next ten years (and that's ten years from when the article was published in 2007).

"Obesity isn't caused by people, it's caused by obese people"? So you're saying people have no control over it at all? That's just plain not true. If it's genetics then why is the number rising? It's not like people's genes are suddenly getting worse.

And I'm all in favor of a tax on unhealthy foods. Obesity has a direct monetary cost on society, and I see little issue with asking people to pay the cost of their lifestyle. IF it helps people make better choices then that's great, but even if it only pays the bills for them then that's fine.

 

[noble cookie]

As a fat person I feel the need to say something in this thread.

As of this moment in my life, I am lazy and have been in a "can't be fucked" mood for years.
Or maybe it's because i'm 15, unconfident and just don't know how to go about it.

I may find the will to change in the future, maybe soon.

Until then keep on insulting me and I will continue to try to not give a fuck.

(God damn recent threads making me write depressing posts)

 

[Amarok]

I...don't see why it's such a bad thing to encourage people not to be obese.

I'll break it down into chunks

1) Discrimination, stigmatisation and bullying (which is what it is in the end) is not good for people's health. This misconception that you should mock, stigmatise, or belittle an obese person "for their own good" is beyond ridiculous. Studies - REAL studies that is, not ones sponsored by Weight Watchers or Kellog's, have shown that the stress of being constantly stigmatised by people for their weight breeds within people the same illnesses that are perceived as being "obesity diseases", diabetes? Heart problems due to blood-pressure? All capable of being caused by stress. And the idea that pointing out someone's weight is an eye-opener to them... Well, do you really think obese people are walking around UNAWARE that they're obese? When they have TV, Films, Magazines, People On The Street, Friends, Family etc all pointing it out to them every day? You really think your one stupid comment is going to be the one to "save" them?
Bibliography
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/8/128
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2007.114769
fiercefatties.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/nichd-letter.pdf

2) Weight has nothing to do with your health. No, really. Remember how when you were a little kid you got told "people come in all shapes and sizes"? That's still true, it's just that the weight-loss industry is worth $68 billion dollars and it's very good for them to breed a culture of shame, fear, and hatred.
What you eat and how much you exercise is highly unlikely to determine how much you weigh, and in fact it has been shown from as early as 1959 that diet and exercise only cause weightloss in 5% of people, and even then only about 10% of it, so most obese people will still be obese at the end of that.
But here's the thing - eating well and exercising moderately for 30 minutes, 5 times a week completely eliminates all risk of the illnesses associated with obesity. It is possible to be obese and healthy. The idea that you're only healthy when you're thin is incredibly damaging to obese people AND ideal weight people. This line of thinking cause people to go on extreme diets and exercise far too much - and yes, that is a thing - thus putting a strain on their body. You know those contestants of The Biggest Loser Michelle Obama thinks are such a good role-model? They shit, piss and puke blood when you're not looking.
It also causes thin people who don't eat well or exercise to assume that they're fine. In fact, all those "obesity diseases"? Ideal weight people who live poor lifestyles can run afoul of them too.
Bibliography
http://www.jabfm.org/content/25/1/9.abstract?etoc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/10/1/9
http://www.rxpgnews.com/obesity/Adolescent_Dieting_May_Predict_Obesity_and_Eating__3907_3907.shtml
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Dieting-Does-Not-Work-UCLA-Researchers-7832.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/17469900
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/10449014
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/1580453
3) Creating a culture where weight is equated with health is seriously dangerous.
You know that scary "obese people are costing healthcare money!" rhetoric that gets thrown around? A fun fact: No matter what your cause of death or illness an obese person, it will get attributed to obesity. We're not the apocalypse you all think/hope we are.
But that's a symptom of a big, big issue - that all an obese persons' ailments are attributed to their obesity. Heart problems, diabetes, high blood pressure, strep throat (seriously), pretty much anything. So when an obese person goes to the doc with a problem, they will almost invariably be told to lose weight. What happens when a thin person goes to the docs with the same issues? They get actual, medically sound advice is what.
Bibliography:
yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/bias/WeightBiasStudy.pdf
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/steven_blair/
thinkmuscle.com/health/obesity-health-metabolic-fitness/
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198603063141003
http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/the-true-cost-of-fatties/
http://bigliberty.net/2012/05/11/other-reason-why-fat-person-cost-calculations-are-bogus/

In short, we need to focus on HEALTH, not WEIGHT. What is the actual point of saying "hey you, be less obese!" over "hey you, eat a balanced diet and exercise 30 minutes, 5 times a week!"? Well I can tell you the actual point; money, dear boy. But certainly not health.

 

[Thyunda]

I...don't see why it's such a bad thing to encourage people not to be obese.

I'll break it down into chunks

1) Discrimination, stigmatisation and bullying (which is what it is in the end) is not good for people's health. This misconception that you should mock, stigmatise, or belittle a fat person "for their own good" is beyond ridiculous. Studies - REAL studies that is, not ones sponsored by Weight Watchers or Kellog's, have shown that the stress of being constantly stigmatised by people for their weight breeds within people the same illnesses that are perceived as being "fat diseases", diabetes? Heart problems due to blood-pressure? All capable of being caused by stress. And the idea that pointing out someone's weight is an eye-opener to them... Well, do you really think fat people are walking around UNAWARE that they're fat? When they have TV, Films, Magazines, People On The Street, Friends, Family etc all pointing it out to them every day? You really think your one stupid comment is going to be the one to "save" them?
Bibliography
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/8/128
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2007.114769
fiercefatties.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/nichd-letter.pdf

2) Weight has nothing to do with your health. No, really. Remember how when you were a little kid you got told "people come in all shapes and sizes"? That's still true, it's just that the weight-loss industry is worth $68 billion dollars and it's very good for them to breed a culture of shame, fear, and hatred.
What you eat and how much you exercise is highly unlikely to determine how much you weigh, and in fact it has been shown from as early as 1959 that diet and exercise only cause weightloss in 5% of people, and even then only about 10% of it, so most obese people will still be obese at the end of that.
But here's the thing - eating well and exercising moderately for 30 minutes, 5 times a week completely eliminates all risk of the illnesses associated with obesity. It is possible to be fat and healthy. The idea that you're only healthy when you're thin is incredibly damaging to fat people AND thin people. This line of thinking cause people to go on extreme diets and exercise far too much - and yes, that is a thing - thus putting a strain on their body. You know those contestants of The Biggest Loser Michelle Obama thinks are such a good role-model? They shit, piss and puke blood when you're not looking.
It also causes thin people who don't eat well or exercise to assume that they're fine. In fact, all those "fat diseases"? Thin people who live poor lifestyles can run afoul of them too.
Bibliography
http://www.jabfm.org/content/25/1/9.abstract?etoc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/10/1/9
http://www.rxpgnews.com/obesity/Adolescent_Dieting_May_Predict_Obesity_and_Eating__3907_3907.shtml
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Dieting-Does-Not-Work-UCLA-Researchers-7832.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/17469900
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/10449014
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/1580453
3) Creating a culture where weight is equated with health is seriously dangerous.
You know that scary "obese people are costing healthcare money!" rhetoric that gets thrown around? A fun fact: No matter what your cause of death or illness an obese person, it will get attributed to obesity. We're not the apocalypse you all think/hope we are.
But that's a symptom of a big, big issue - that all an obese persons' ailments are attributed to their obesity. Heart problems, diabetes, high blood pressure, strep throat (seriously), pretty much anything. So when a fat person goes to the doc with a problem, they will almost invariably be told to lose weight. What happens when a thin person goes to the docs with the same issues? They get actual, medically sound advice is what.
Bibliography:
yaleruddcenter.org/resources/upload/docs/what/bias/WeightBiasStudy.pdf
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/steven_blair/
thinkmuscle.com/health/obesity-health-metabolic-fitness/
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198603063141003
http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/the-true-cost-of-fatties/
http://bigliberty.net/2012/05/11/other-reason-why-fat-person-cost-calculations-are-bogus/

In short, we need to focus on HEALTH, not WEIGHT. What is the actual point of saying "hey you, be less fat!" over "hey you, eat a balanced diet and exercise 30 minutes, 5 times a week!"? Well I can tell you the actual point; money, dear boy. But certainly not health.

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

 

[Abedeus]

snip

Alright, since you don't care about the United States, how about Britain? 22 percent of British adults are obese, and that number is estimated to go up to a third of the population by 2020. Do you not care about them either? Here's a ranking of the world's fattest countries and you can finds the ones you do care about http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/07/worlds-fattest-countries-forbeslife-cx_ls_0208worldfat_2.html

(although this combines overweight and obese together, so the numbers are pretty high)

Poland, 98th.

Yeah, I'm shaking in my booties.

The frightening thing is that this number of people is supposed to grow by 40 percent over the next ten years (and that's ten years from when the article was published in 2007).

"Obesity isn't caused by people, it's caused by obese people"? So you're saying people have no control over it at all? That's just plain not true. If it's genetics then why is the number rising? It's not like people's genes are suddenly getting worse.

How about "Medicine is better and being fat no longer makes you die at 50". Health care is getting better and better, so an obese person lives longer. That means they contribute to the "total amount of fat people" for longer while new "fatties" join the fray.

And that's same reason why general life expectancy is rising. It's not that people suddenly have better genes that allow them to live past 60, or that they stop committing suicide after retirement. Life is getting better and easier. Also most people who are obese or overweight don't work physically - they don't have to. Since more and more people work in the 3rd industry (...or however it's called in English - the non-agriculture one), the less work physically.

And I'm all in favor of a tax on unhealthy foods. Obesity has a direct monetary cost on society, and I see little issue with asking people to pay the cost of their lifestyle. IF it helps people make better choices then that's great, but even if it only pays the bills for them then that's fine.

Taxing unhealthy foods - again, why? They aren't poisonous. They aren't a target for smugglers or crack dealers like drugs or tobacco or alcohol. They don't affect people other than the ones eating them. HOW DOES THIS HAVE AN EFFECT ON OTHER PEOPLE?

 

[Amarok]

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

Every single study I linked involved obesity. If I personally used the word "fat" I apologise for confusing you, but don't take it as a reason to completely ignore my points. You'd be doing yourself a disservice.

 

[Thyunda]

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

Every single study I linked involved obesity. If I personally used the word "fat" I apologise for confusing you, but don't take it as a reason to completely ignore my points. You'd be doing yourself a disservice.

Nobody winds up obese without contributing in some way.

 

[Amarok]

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

Every single study I linked involved obesity. If I personally used the word "fat" I apologise for confusing you, but don't take it as a reason to completely ignore my points. You'd be doing yourself a disservice.

Nobody winds up obese without contributing in some way.

Well I linked an awful lot of literature that disputes that claim, and they all have a lot more experience in the field than you do. But what the hell, you know best, right?

I'll leave you to your bigotry and wilful ignorance. It's all I really can do at this time.

 

[Thyunda]

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

Every single study I linked involved obesity. If I personally used the word "fat" I apologise for confusing you, but don't take it as a reason to completely ignore my points. You'd be doing yourself a disservice.

Nobody winds up obese without contributing in some way.

Well I linked an awful lot of literature that disputes that claim, and they all have a lot more experience in the field than you do. But what the hell, you know best, right?

I'll leave you to your bigotry and wilful ignorance. It's all I really can do at this time.

If that's how you choose to see it, you obesity apologist.

Not that I knew those existed.

 

[Sonicron]

WORDS!:

At one point I was 100lbs overweight - clearly in the 'obese' category. I have lost 73lbs so far. I am still trying to lose the rest, but it's slow-goings during the last leg of the journey. I may get there, I may not; but I wont stop trying. I had a hard time moving around, walking down the street was winding; as embarrassing as that is to admit to anyone. You can imagine where my confidence was. Hint: The Shitter. Now, I just feel awesome, and overall it's the best decision I ever made - though I still struggle with it. I had an easier time quitting smoking and drinking (of which I also had a problem).

I struggle with it because I used food to self-medicate. Eating became a compulsion I couldn't seem to handle and I actually had to relearn self-control and I used a strict vegan/fruitarian diet to do so. Why a vegan/fruitarian diet? You pretty much just end up saying 'NO' to anything you enjoyed before and learn to enjoy the healthier foods that you may not have even known existed before, without salts, over-seasonings, dressings, or grease. It's quite an eye-opener. I had stopped this diet in favor of a vegetarian diet, but I actually miss my vegan/fruitarian diet and plan to go back. I am not promoting this diet, or saying everyone should get on it; it's a personal choice after listening to my body and how it feels.

I understand that people aren't all going to be the same, and we aren't all going to look like Hollywood-Land clones. We have different heights, body structures,diets, and overall health issues; but the point is to try and live a healthy, active life-style (moderation is key) despite your illnesses and personal mental reservations; and your body will respond to it, whether you actually lose weight, or just feel better in the long-run.

My heartiest congratulations to you! That is quite an accomplishment, as I well know - I'm currently in the same boat. Used to be 112lbs overweight, so I set out to ditch 125. 92 down, 33 to go... and yeah, that last leg of the journey's a *****.
My diet methods are apparently pretty different, but hey, whatever works and is healthy for you, right? Anyway, keep it up, you can do it! ^^

OT:
Discriminating against fat people... yeah, I can't really advocate for that. I've been on the receiving end for many years, especially back in school, and it's counterproductive. You dig your heels in and develop rationalizations and other coping mechanisms that serve to distract you from your problem, but the end result is that you dig a deeper and deeper hole to hide in without actually feeling better about yourself.
That said, there's a line between discrimination and tough love, and the latter is definitely helpful. A good friend of mine gave me hell for living my life the way I did, but he did so without being cruel; instead he pointed out that I had a great potential for discipline and therefore the means to help myself. Rather than mocking me, he levelled constructive criticism at me in his customarily brutal honesty. In the end that wasn't what got me started on losing weight, but it's be a lie to say his words didn't have any positive influence.
So, in summary, don't discriminate - extend a helping hand. You don't need to coddle or tiptoe, and many people need you to kick their ass (metaphorically of course) to help them on their way, but senseless cruelty doesn't help anyone.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

I think some of the reasons fat people get so much hate is from how inconvenient and 'gross' they are, even to other overweight people.

~Places where people have to walk must be made wider while sitting surfaces have to be bigger AND redesigned to hold all that extra weight. While not exactly inconvenient for thin people to use, it's less convenient for the places that have to redesign floor plans and furniture.

~They sometimes don't walk as quickly, which is inconvenient for people who want to get past them in a small area. Scooter-bound ones move faster and for longer stretches of time, but they're still awkward to get around if space is limited and they can't exactly skoot straight to the side.

~It definitely doesn't help if they eat extra large meals and then pick/scarf what friends don't finish or leave unattended and ask for snack gifts later. It may be cute for some, but other times it's rude and shows a lack of restraint around food.

~As was mentioned before, there's the smell that comes from places that aren't being washed well enough unless the person puts a lot of effort into bathing. It happens with skinny people too, but people with rolls that catch sweat get it worse.

~Throw the above in with the definitely obese ones who try to squeeze into clothes that would burst if they were to bend over far enough... *shudders*

~Medical expenses being shared by other tax and insurance payer. People see it as an unfair burden to pay for other people's expenses because of poor life choices or what they see as playing up a personal problem the way an asshole would say they're really just autistic.

~The attitude. How many people want to verbally smack down someone who is arrogant and expects special treatment for whatever reason, or simply float above their fellows on an inflated sense of entitlement?

And that's it for the ol' attention span. It's not right that some people go out of their way to make another person's life miserable just because they're fat due to whatever reasons, but at the same time it can be at least partially controlled by not being stupid with what and how much you eat when coupled with doing more walking than from your bed or chair to the nearest food source.

 

[somonels]

This sort of discrimination isn't wrong because it's baseless, it's wrong because fattys get their feelings hurt and bleeding hearts... being.

 

[Abedeus]

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

Every single study I linked involved obesity. If I personally used the word "fat" I apologise for confusing you, but don't take it as a reason to completely ignore my points. You'd be doing yourself a disservice.

Nobody winds up obese without contributing in some way.

Well I linked an awful lot of literature that disputes that claim, and they all have a lot more experience in the field than you do. But what the hell, you know best, right?

I'll leave you to your bigotry and wilful ignorance. It's all I really can do at this time.

If that's how you choose to see it, you obesity apologist.

Not that I knew those existed.

Obesity apologist is still better than a close-minded bigot that can't bother doing a little reading.

This sort of discrimination isn't wrong because it's baseless, it's wrong because fattys get their feelings hurt and bleeding hearts... being.

Are you short?

Can I call you Shorty McDwarf?

Are you thin?

Can I call you a skeleton everywhere you go and laugh at your amazing 5 pound lifting skills?

Oh, wait, I forgot how many people on Escapist are under 16 and still in middle school, where you judge people solely on appearance.

 

[viking97]

i harbor no hate towards fat people myself, but then i tend to not care about physical appearance a whole lot anyway. the way i see it, being fit in this day and age is, by-in-large, a big waste of time. No matter how strong you are, you can't work an eighth as fast as this here machine, so why bother? why not leave the gym, eat some cake and enjoy life?

P.S. The fact that i have a chubby fetish is completely unrelated and i resent you bringing it up good sir.

 

[Lawnmooer]

Is there discrimination against the obese? Yes.

Is it justified? I'm going to have to say yes.

You see, there's a difference between being a bit chubby (This can be atributed to genetics making peoples metabolism slower, thus making it difficult to not add a bit of extra weight), being fat (Which is due to poor diet and or insuffiecient amounts of exercise) and being obese (A medical condition where you are overweight to the point of being at a sever health risk, which I doubt is caused by a slow metabolism, unless you're born and your metabolism stops I don't think you can use it as an excuse)

In order to become "Obese" you must live a certain lifestyle (Lots of high sugar food and insuffiecient exercise) and you must also keep this lifestyle when you get the signs that it is a poor lifestyle (When you become chubby and later when you become fat)

Discriminating against people who are obese might actually get it into their heads that their lifestyle is not a terribly good one and that they might want to do something about it (As they obviously missed the signs) it's not that society wants everyone to look like the models do in magazines, its that when you are that unhealthy, not only are you less appealing to be around you are also going to feel kinda crappy aswell (Or so I hear, when people lose weight they always talk about how they feel a lot better all the time, mainly because of the other symptoms that come with obesity such as pains and lethargy)

When people say things like "I enjoy my weight" in attempts to stop people discriminating against them I always think "Well if I got a load of tattoo's and piercings I'm pretty sure you'd discriminate against me?" because that's what people do, when someone looks drastically different to what people consider "Normal" they discriminate against them.

In my opinion discrimination is a crappy thing to do most of the time (Like people who discriminate against gays and women etc. for no reasons other than their personal bias against them) but when you make a lifestyle choice that has drastic affects on you (Becoming obese, smoking, doing drugs and binge drinking etc.) then the only person to blame for that discrimination is yourself.

Oh and as for my thoughts on obesity? I sort of hope that the NHS refuses to help people who are obese (Outside of giving aid for them to lose weight) like they did with smokers. It's just not fair on other people to have to pay for you to kill yourself.

 

[Thyunda]

Put the clipboard down, open dictionary.com and look up the difference between 'fat' and 'obese'.

Every single study I linked involved obesity. If I personally used the word "fat" I apologise for confusing you, but don't take it as a reason to completely ignore my points. You'd be doing yourself a disservice.

Nobody winds up obese without contributing in some way.

Well I linked an awful lot of literature that disputes that claim, and they all have a lot more experience in the field than you do. But what the hell, you know best, right?

I'll leave you to your bigotry and wilful ignorance. It's all I really can do at this time.

If that's how you choose to see it, you obesity apologist.

Not that I knew those existed.

Obesity apologist is still better than a close-minded bigot that can't bother doing a little reading.

This sort of discrimination isn't wrong because it's baseless, it's wrong because fattys get their feelings hurt and bleeding hearts... being.

Are you short?

Can I call you Shorty McDwarf?

Are you thin?

Can I call you a skeleton everywhere you go and laugh at your amazing 5 pound lifting skills?

Oh, wait, I forgot how many people on Escapist are under 16 and still in middle school, where you judge people solely on appearance.

You can call me Shorty McDwarf if you want. I know all the height jokes. Got 'em all in high school. I'm 5'11 now and my younger brothers still dwarf me. And so I still get called short. Skinny too actually. Make fun of my upper body strength as well. I'm quite aware that it's lacking. I'm stronger than I look but still not as strong as most of my friends.

Now, shockingly, I'm not going to be bothered by you calling me a bigot. You can stick with your papers and false science, but I think I might just ask for some precedent, some evidence of pre-modernised obesity. You find me one non-monarch, non-noble from history who managed to be obese despite sharing the same diet as his peers, and I will retract my statement.

And I don't mean fat. I don't mean he has a bit of a muffintop going on. I don't mean he has a fine pair of mantits. I mean he actually struggles to move. He sweats all the time. His neck has actually gone AWOL and he hasn't seen his feet since he was twelve.

THAT'S obesity. And you can quote all the papers you want but I'll just say the same damn thing. That's not natural. That's not healthy. Oh just keep stuffing your face, big man, because the Escapist will back you up. It's not your fault, dude, it's not your fault. You're normal. You're okay. Have another Big Mac, big man, it won't do you any harm.

Your attitude is unhealthy. How is anybody supposed to keep at a healthy weight when you make them feel guilty about trying to better themselves?

 

[Thyunda]

i harbor no hate towards fat people myself, but then i tend to not care about physical appearance a whole lot anyway. the way i see it, being fit in this day and age is, by-in-large, a big waste of time. No matter how strong you are, you can't work an eighth as fast as this here machine, so why bother? why not leave the gym, eat some cake and enjoy life?

P.S. The fact that i have a chubby fetish is completely unrelated and i resent you bringing it up good sir.

You are such a manipulative swine I think I love you. You have actually made my evening.