Oikos university shooting

[ElPatron]

maybe if we are talking about cavemen... an average person can figure out a safety rather quick and can kill with a gun just fine...

I said that the safety was off.

That means the hammer was uncocked. You can't put the safety on when the hammer is down, so the person won't ever figure how to operate the safety.

Guns look easy to operate in the movies. In fact, they are somewhat easy to use, but without training... A person limp-wristing can cause malfunctions on recoil operated handguns.

Heck, there are people who try to load 9x18 into 9x19 weapons.

again if you want to have valid opinion anyone is going to care about stop reading wikipedia or whatever crappy second hand civ source you read sign up and get some actual experience...

actual experience trumps second hand knowledge every single time

>civ source

Amazing. The AR15 is a very common rifle in the US but civilians don't know shit about them. It's like it's not legal to hunt deer with them in some states.

>second hand

Yeah, as if I did not have experience with 5.56 Saigas. Simply put, AKs were not made to feed non-tapered rounds, and you really have to look for the good mags - most suck.

Not trying to antagonize you, but bullets obey the laws of physics like every other object.

Slow ammunition won't cause hydrostatic shock. That's why temporary cavitation isn't that much of a big deal when it comes to pistol ammo - the wound paths are relatively straight and predictable, and stretch damage isn't as bad as in rifle gunshot wounds.

When you have 5.56 or 5.45, the temporary cavity is a big deal. Both rounds are able to break bones by indirect hits.

 

[TechNoFear]

Prove that my points are irrelevant. You accuse me of taking correlation as causation but you have yet to prove that your studies do not make that mistake.

Show me peer reviews that question Leigh and Neill's analysis.

Because you can?t.

I can clearly not explain it in a way you can understand.

Yes it does. Take a look at Mexico?s ban.

Strawman.

Since when is Mexico in Australia?

If not, what relevence does the way Australia's gun buy back worked have to do with Mexico?

BTW- these guys say you are WRONG-

All those firearms are restricted in Australia.

You might get a license for the rifle, if you can convince the commissioner of police that your specific requirements make the 'basic' (class A & B) firearms unacceptable, but not for the handguns.

Funny how you pass yourself off as an expert on the results of the Australian gun buy back but do not even know which firearms were banned.

I suppose I should not be surprised by your total ignorance of speed shooting.

How was Gifford's shooter stopped?

He had to reload.

Do you think he could have walked up to a US congress woman and shot her in the head, then shot 18 others with a bolt action holding a rifle?

Clearly not.

The US has a mass shooting almost every month, Australia has not had a single mass shooting since 1997.

If it not to do with the Australia's strict firearm laws, then why is that?

Answer one of my questions for a change.

Then don?t buy one for yourself and don?t allow one onto your property.

You read 'firearm ban' and think there are no firearms at all.

Which is totally wrong.

DO NOT attack my right to use one for hunting and self protection simply because of your bias against humanity.

The thread is about yet another mass shooting rampage in the US.

Clearly every single American can be trusted with a firearm...

 

[TechNoFear]

Context.

Re-read my post; "Australia banned the more lethal types of firearms in 1997 (and handguns in 2003)."

Do some reseach as to what firearms were banned, instead of just making things up.

Fact: Handguns do not generate a lot of energy.

Fact: Handguns are much easier to conceal on your person than a rifle.

Fact: Any given shooter will fire faster when they use a semi-auto compared to a bolt action.

Fact: You are more than twice as likely to die from a gunshot wound from a handgun (16.8%) than a rifle (7.7%).

http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1993/10/knives-00000.php

Fact: ~70% of all firearm homicides in the US are with handguns.

Fact: ~50% of ALL homicides in the US are with handguns.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls

Fact: Most US mass shootings are committed with handguns, not rifles.

IMO as handguns have a higher chance of killing you than a rifle AND are used to kill people more often than any other firearm, that makes handguns more 'lethal'.

If semi autos were restricted then I would abide by those rules on three conditions:

Semi-autos are banned, unless you can convince the commissioner of police that other 'less lethal' types of firearms are not suitable (ie you are a professional shooter, armed security officer, etc)

Bolt action (even straight pull), lever action and pump action must be either unregistered or registration should be a formality

All firearms are resticted. Even though I am in law enforcement I can not take my handguns home from the range.

that does not allow the disarmament of civilians.

Funny how Americans think being armed is required to make democracy work, while ensuring any oppresive dictators able to afford it (like Sadam) are fully suppled with WMD...

License to own a semi automatic should NOT distinguish between "esthetic" features (pistol grips, barrel shrouds, etc)

Do you know why those features were banned in the US? Or under which law? [Search my previous post for answers, or do some research (I suggest Roth & Koper's 1999 study)]

There was a very good reason but it had NOTHING to do with any effect those features had on the 'lethality' of the firearm.

 

[ElPatron]

snip

Hold up hold up hold up.

I am not talking about Ausfailia. I am not making anything up. Simply the lethality of a weapon does not equal the firepower (capacity and rate of fire). I am not trying how to tell you how your country works.

Fact: a shotgun can be sawed and made concealable.

Fact: Bolt action or pump action weapons can be cocked just fast enough to allow for target acquisition and fired immediately.

Semi-autos are banned, unless you can convince the commissioner of police that other 'less lethal' types of firearms are not suitable (ie you are a professional shooter, armed security officer, etc)

All firearms are resticted. Even though I am in law enforcement I can not take my handguns home from the range.

Funny how Americans think being armed is required to make democracy work, while ensuring any oppresive dictators able to afford it (like Sadam) are fully suppled with WMD...

Do you know why those features were banned in the US? Or under which law? [Search my previous post for answers, or do some research (I suggest Roth & Koper's 1999 study)]

There was a very good reason but it had NOTHING to do with any effect those features had on the 'lethality' of the firearm.

Again, I am not talking about Australia.

And again, I am European. Born and raised. Weapons are necessary for the existence of a free state and we have proven that in 9 centuries of history.

EDIT: Also, the link shown that shotgun wounds are deadlier than handgun wounds.

 

[ElPatron]

and just so you know some of my guns DO have the safety marked and printed in black and white on them lol ... but ElPatron over here seems to think you need a fucking masters degree to operate a handgun but anyone with an IQ of 60 can pick up a spear and and take down a grizzly... going on a killing spree with a gun is still on average a lot easier to succeed with than a melee weapon

That's quite the hyperbole.

A few years ago, I would have spent a whole afternoon trying to flick the safety on a uncocked AR15 without knowing it was mechanically safe. Just google it. There are a lot of people who ask this question on the internet because they can't operate the selector while the weapon has the hammer down.

A few years ago, I was convinced that the zero on the iron sights was the "dot" on the front sight and not the "invisible line" drawn by the top parts of the sight.

Guns can be operated by the lowest common denominator, but that doesn't mean they are easy.