On downloading games illegally

[minimacker]

I believe piracy is all right, when it's used correctly. There are many games that aren't in production and can not be found anywhere.
Steam has done a good job in reviving some of the earlier games such as X-Com to function on 64-bit computers, but there are still an entire library of games that hasn't been made "abandonware" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware] and can not be found and purchased.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

I got some games this way about a decade ago on SEGA's Dreamcast.
The reason was that I was a young kid and couldn't afford to buy the games I liked.

But now days things are pretty different.
I now play on a computer and I have a job,and I also saw most of the franchises I liked when I was a kid to turn bad.
I've watched games getting shorther,buggier and loose features instead of getting new ones as time pass by.
Nowdays I don't want to play so many games as I did when I was a kid,I get to play fewer games,but I buy them all authentic.
You are asking me why I don't download them ?
Because I have a download internet speed of 200kb/s which means it would take me about a day or more to download a game,and seeing how games degraded the last 10 years I just think it doesn't worth it. Spend 12 hours waiting for a game to download,while the game itself will last just 6 or 9 hours ? Most games are that bad they don't deserve the waiting and hassle.

So I end up only buying a few games that I know I will like,either because I follow their series or because I've read good reviews and watched enough gameplay videos on Youtube to get convinced they worth it.

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

No, most of the games I play on PC are below 20$ or end up on a Steam sale and the vast majority are 360 games. I rather not have my console bricked.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

My friend does it and it annoys the hell out of me. Mostly because we can never play multiplayer games like Fear 3...

He makes WAY more money than me so I'm not sure what his issue is.

I find it kind of repugnant tbh how are companies meant to make pennies if we steal stuff off them? :< He was complaining on facebook about the looters in London stealing games and stuff and I said 'Well you are no different surely?'.

He said that was a silly comparison >_> sigh.

 

[redeemer09]

well ask youself this very blunt qestion"is stealing right"?if you answer yes ,then please assume Party Escort Submisson Position as the police take you to your local police department

 

[StormShaun]

I say if you cannot get it in your country, I think it should be legal to download it.

But if its in your country, it is bad, and very morally bad.

 

[imagremlin]

If you could copy a car, this tired, bullshit, horseshit, mooseshit analogy would be less complete and utter shitshit.

I'm sorry, as much as you tried to stress it I did not get your point. I wasn't advocating for the argument, on the contrary.

Having said that, If you really think that the only thing stoping people from stealing cars is the thought of the owner being car-less, you have a faith in humanity that I dont. If stealing cars was easy, consequence-less and everybody was doing it, I suspect things would be different; but I digress...

 

[Kathinka]

well, where i'm from downloading copyrighted material, such as games, is not completely legal. that said, i hope to avoid mod wrath, for i have not violated any law.

i download a lot of the games i play. especially those with for me unacceptable drm-scemes (way to backfire, steamworks) however, some of those i downloaded i really liked i bought later on. the ones i downloaded and played, but didn't buy i would not have spent money on anyway. so, in short, by me downloading stuff not a single cent of profit was lost to developers..
the day they make deep, complex games with good technology again instead of the ever-the-same stuff, not advancing a single millimeter and dumbed down for easy console digestion, i will pay for anything..until that i will take advantage of the awesome laws here and proceed to pirate the shit out of everything that's not worthy of my money.

*waves jolly roger*

 

[Yopaz]

The money goes into a completely different industry when you buy a used game. You don't say a guy who sell used records is in the music industry, do you?
Also in a way aren't publishers looking out for them? If publishers were to stop publishing games for some reason what would be sold?

No, they aren't. This is a mutually beneficial relationship. If Gamestop (one of the largest gaming retailers) decided not to sell millions of copies of games for publishers, who would sell their games? Your scenario makes them "not a video game publisher." It benefits no one for either side to hold out on the other.

Is GameStop looking out for us? Last time I was there I saw used games cost more than new games compared to the store across the street. Last week GameStop removed OnLive coupons from the PC version of Deus Ex.

The first statement is relevant to the scenario in question. There are too many missing factors in there as to why that would be true. As for the Dues Ex fiasco, Square fucked them over pretty bad and Gamestop didn't like it. What was a move against Square ended up hurting consumers as collateral damage and they tried to compensate for not taking that into consideration for the act.
However, they have recently started offering reward points on NEW games for buying new games. Buying new games at Gamestop now helps you buy more new games for no other reason than they want you coming in the door more often and are willing to shave a bit of their profits in hopes you will buy more.

Square might have fucked over GameStop there, but haven't GameStop fucked over Square by selling their games to us where none of the money reaches Square for years as we speak? Square fucked GameStop over and GameStop fucks the consumer over. Is that fair to the consumer? Also GameStop didn't really lose anything on the OnLive coupons. They had already received money from the sale of a new copy of Deus Ex. Also GameStop wasn't kind and offered us an apology. GameStop saw that they had fucked up and that this would lead to a loss in customers and then decided to make it up to us. Note that this was after they had acted high and mighty and said they were taking a stand and even boycotted the PC version of Deus Ex.

Oh, and GameStop offering us discount on new games if we've already bought new games there is simply a strategy to draw us back to buy from them again, not an act of kindness. At least where I am GameStop is the most expensive place to buy games except for the oldest used games and then they're cheaper only by a little bit.
Valve has actually been doing research on the subject and offering discounts doesn't shave off profits. It increases it in all cases and in some cases multiplies it. They even earned money on selling Team Fortress 2 for $1.

And ask yourself. Could GameStop exist without games? Nooooooope!
Could publishers exist without GameStop? Yes. In fact I was probably 15 the first time I ever saw a GameStop and it took 3 years after that until I saw the next one. There are many electronic stores and malls that sell games without selling used games. There are online stores that sell them cheaper than all retail stores because they don't need to spend money on anything but storage and enough employees to run, maintain the site and treat orders. There's Steam, there's Onlive, there's Origin, to a big extent there's XBL and PSN. GameStop is only a retailer and will be doomed without publishers. The opposite is not true.

The industry of selling used games hurt the publishers and developers just as much as piracy and you can't really debate that.

This is a hot issue for debate for a year or two now. Turns out you can debate it. The guy that resold that game may have bought another one. You know what hurts sales? Telling people who paid hard earned money for a used copy of your game they are no better (actually worse) than thieves. Hell, that tells people it is "more honorable" to just steal it.

Yeah, the guy with 60 bucks who bought a used game for 30 might buy another used game for 30. So if he buys 2 used games that makes all the difference in the world. The publisher will get no money which is twice as much as no money. Some of those who pirate end up buying the game if they like it (most don't) no-one of those who buy used have any need to buy it new since they already got it. Also you said that someone who buys a used game will have more money to buy another one. Wont the same apply to someone who pirate it? Since he used nothing he will still have just as much money as he had before he played the game and can still afford to pay full price.

If I were to download Deus Ex (I already bought it so I kinda did download it from Steam already), shoplift it from a nearby store or buy it used the publisher would actually earn the most if I shoplifted it (given that's a new copy).

Wrong. The used copy they already made profit on once and now stand to make more money off of any DLC. A used game buyer proves they are willing to spend money on your game already. That may change if you start saying they are no better or worse than a dirty thief. They don't make the same money off of a stolen copy as they do a sold one. Nice try though.

Actually you're wrong. All the copies of one game you see in GameStop has already given the Publisher money. Every new copy is already paid for. If one of the new copies is stolen that's GameStop's loss not the Publisher's. So if new games are stolen then GameStop will have to order new copies form the publisher.
DLC works as a way to get profit from used games, sure. However not everyone buys DLC, not all games have DLC and some of those who pirate actually buy the DLC. Most Wii games lack DLC so Nintendo gains nothing from used sales at all. If I were to mod my Wii and download Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo would get no money. If I buy it used Nintendo would get no money.

Also you seem to imply that I call everyone who buy used games thieves. I didn't say in one word that buying used games was just as bad as stealing games (either physically or digitally) I said it hurts the publisher/developer just as much. Can you seriously say that a publisher get any money from either scenario?

 

[Iron Lightning]

Here are some other questions that have come to my mind. How is downloading PC games illegally any more abhorrent than buying used games?

Well, it depends on how much disposable income you have. If you have a lot of disposable income then it's better to buy used games. Buying used games allows new stores to get built thus indirectly increasing new games sales.

If you don't have much disposable income then it's better to pirate. Without a lot of money if you waste money on used games then you won't have enough money to buy new games. The indirect support developers receive from used game sales is pretty miniscule.

Of course, the best way to support developers is to buy new games.

And if you knew you could download PC games illegally without any fear of repercussions, would you steal all your games?

Not all of my games. The only games I would download are games that are unavailable for whatever reason (be they abandonware or foreign titles unreleased in my country.) The only new games I buy are good games whose developers deserve support. If a game sucks I won't pay for it but I also won't download it because I don't want to play it. If I'm really on the fence about a game I might download it as an extended trial and buy it later if it turns out to be good enough to warrant a purchase. Also, I might want to legally download another copy of a game I own for various reasons.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Why pirate when you can rent?

Don't like a game enough to pay 40 quid for it? Borrow it for a month for 5 quid. Problem solved.

EA trying to get you to pay more? Boycot them. Problem solved.

 

[Zyntoxic]

Hm... I had this conversation with my sister the other day, she downloads for the "I'm poor" reason, and I do not deny her that. she has no income what so ever and the only reason she has a computer is that she got one as a graduation/birthday gift from the whole family collectively.
she has no money for games to play on it though, she can ask friends and family for games during birthdays and x-mas of course, but thats not very often, and as a game enthusiast she still wants to keep up with the industry, kinda hard if you can only get a game twice a year.

so at first I had to agree with her, but then came to mind all the nights she goes out with her friends and ask our mother for money to spend, and it occurs to me that she could just as easily instead of going out drinking, ask for money for a game every once in a while.
I mean that wouldn't be much of a problem, since, just as Extra credits stated, there is rarely more than like one truly great game release per month, and during summer, it's not even that.

so as I told her, more likely than not, not having enough money for a game, is about priorities rathern than anything else. as usual, you just can't have everything.

I for one can't download, I'm too attatched to my games and love collecting them, and there is this special feeling of buying a game and open it for the first time, expectantly waiting infront of the screen as it installs and then finally comes the moment when you get to play the game you worked hard to pay for... the "mint experience" ^_^


I once raged at my boyfriend for downloading DA:O before release and almost destroying my "mint experience", he do not download if I have not bought and tried a game out first anymore.

 

[Xanthious]

I don't know if I believe this. If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you?

Let me tell ya, poor people get money from time to time too. I grew up poor and we never actually exchanged Christmas gifts in December when I was a kid. Instead, we exchanged them in late Jan or Early Feb when my parents got their tax money and then they typically more than made up for it. I always was able to get the latest and greatest console or new PC on any given year but throughout the year I rarely had money to actually buy games that weren't really really marked down. I got by renting games for my console and my dad taught me early on the ins and outs of gaming on a PC for free.

And if you knew you could download PC games illegally without any fear of repercussions, would you steal all your games?

This is already the case. Anyone that wants to game for free on a PC right now without repercussions can. There is no risk involved currently. However, to your question (Gotta be careful here Escapist dun like that there piracy no sir they don't) I say yes, yes I would but sadly, oh so sadly, I just feel so darned ashamed of myself every time I think to do so. If it weren't for the crippling pangs of guilt and disappointment I'm overcome with every time I think to download A PC title (I love the smell of sarcasm in the morning) I would probably have a massive collection worth of ill gotten PC titles . . . . but I don't. Honest mods, I swear.

 

[The_Critic]

DRM is such bullshit, it doesn't stop piracey, it just frustrates people who want to recieve a portion of their cash back after they've been conned by flash commercials and overly epic trailers. For instance every time I saw a trailer for FFXIII I flipped out it looked so cool and I wanted to play it, so day one I bought it for 60 and paid 30 for the collectors edition strategy guide, cause hey this was the game to bring FF back into the RPG markets.

Well if you've played it you know this game is complete and utter shit, I played for the rest of the week and hate every single aspect of it, except the FMV's which were nice. However not worth 60 bucks. I finally decided I'd rather get the God of War collection instead so I (GASP!) traded it in. I got 30 bucks for it, yeah it wasn't what I paid for it but I got God of War brand new for the trade in price. I played it and Loved it, and would have gladly paid for it at 60, cause I got that much enjoyment out of it. Why should it not be my right as the owner of the game to return a shit game that I don't enjoy and get at least some of my money back. Why is that as bad as piracy. Now if only I could get my money back for the pointless strategy guide. I don't know how they got so many pages out of it, I could have written the entire strategy for FFXIII on one paper.

TAPE DOWN X AND FORWARD BUTTON, Enjoy cutscenes.

As far as piracy goes I'll tell you this. I had a... "friend" who pirated Dragon Age Origins, this... "friend" really enjoyed the game, when this... "friend" finally bought a PS3 he bought Dragon Age Origins, not only did he buy that but when the ultimate super happy edition came out he bought that as well, then proceeded to buy it again for a friend for their birthday party, and also helped a different friend realize the error of his ways and he bought the game too.

If this ... "friend" had not pirated Dragon Age Origins, EA would have not sold, four copies of the game.

So here is a different question. If a friend pirates media, and so thoroughly enjoys it he buys it because he thinks the product deserves his business is that wrong?

I know for a fact that my.... "friend" is a firm believer in the above statement. If he does pirate something he will buy it if he feels that it is worth his money. (FYI my.... "friend" doesn't pirate everything, just things he is uncertain of, or things from companies he does not trust ie: EA, though now he swears by bioware.

!!!DISCLAIMER!!!! The Author of this post does not in any way condone piracy of any kind, nor does his.... friend. Piracy is a criminal activity and should not be committed by anyone.

!!!!SECOND DISCLAIMER!!!! The Author of this post is a strong advocate of the first ammendment, and believes in freedom of speech.

 

[The_Critic]

DP sry

 

[The_Critic]

[/quote]

Also you seem to imply that I call everyone who buy used games thieves. I didn't say in one word that buying used games was just as bad as stealing games (either physically or digitally) I said it hurts the publisher/developer just as much. Can you seriously say that a publisher get any money from either scenario?

so what your saying is.. Oh you bought a bad game your fucked, don't you dare try to sell that to a friend or trade it in, you don't deserve to receive even a portion of your money back cause you were stupid and bought it.

You said above the Publisher has already been paid for the game, they print 50k copies of a game, 50k copies are sent to the stores. So they are paid for 50k copies at $30 (whatever best buy or gamestop buys the games at) so they make 150k dollars.

45k of the games are returned (cause it's FFXIII and it's a pos)Game stop pays trade in value for them thereby losing a portion of their original profit lets say 15 bucks.35k retard fanboys buy used coppies now being sold at 40 bucks a game, games top makes some more profit off it, and then takes over the world because of it.

Apocalyptic catastrophe aside. You still miss the point because the publisher still sold all 50K. There are only 50K in circulation.

If you want to hold on to a bad game and be ripped off by giant companies that don't give a fuck about you feel free. I've never gotten a personal apology from square enix because FFXIII sucked ass, and I'm pretty sure no one else has, I even had the audacity to email them and let them know I was unsatisfied with their product. They didn't care.You know why, they had already been payed for that product, Gamestop paid them for me, and I bought the game from gamestop.

Not only did they not care that FFXIII was a piece of stale chalky shit, they proceded to release FFXIV, I think Satan has puss filled blisters that would be more entertaining then that shitty excuse for an MMO.

As far as I'm concerned Fuck em all, if they sell me shit, I will do all I can to trade the game in to at least get a portion of that cash back.

As far as the DRM is concerned, they can shove it up their asses. I'm half a mind to pirate any game that has a DRM, if they keep force feeding that shit to me. If you want to keep me from getting my hard earned money when you make a shit game, maybe I shouldn't pay for their shit games anymore. It's not like DRM stops piracy. I just prevents me from selling games to my friends or giving my used games as gifts to younger relatives. Its far easier to deal with having to teach them about torrenting then it is to deal with angry aunts and uncles who call me to tell me the game I gave their son for his birthday doesn't work.

I think I had a purpose behind this post, If I remember right it was FUCK DRM.

 

[NakedSnake]

I'm afraid I haven't read the vast majority of this thread due to chronic laziness so please forgive me.

But from personal experience when I illegally download it is usually something old such as Worms: Armageddon. If I were to go to a shop to buy this game, I'm sure my best bet would be to pick it up second hand for some small change. So is it wrong for me to download then, since the people who originally made and distributed this game would not benefit from my purchase? Or does it still harm the game industry because it doesn't help to fund second hand game shops or companies which specialise in distributing 10 year old games?

 

[Rauten]

If you were poor, you wouldn't be able to afford a high end PC would you? Anyway I digress...

Gaming PC =/= HighEnd PC; Nowadays you can get a rather capable machine for around 500$.

How is downloading PC games illegally any more abhorrent than buying used games?

This is kinda down to personal, subjective views. Some people think the second hand market is ok, others (I'm looking at you EA) consider it's the bane of the game industry. I don't think there really is an answer to this one, just different views on the subject.

And if you knew you could download PC games illegally without any fear of repercussions, would you steal all your games?

I know that I can (mostly because according to Spanish laws, it's only a crime under specific circumstances), and no, I don't pirate all my games. Not even close. I must have nearly 200 games on my Steam profile.