On Exploration

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deathbydeath

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Jun 28, 2010
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i disagree with your hatred of thief DS. DS has many of it's exploration rewards, it's just sometimes it involves climbing or platforming. one time i was crawling through an air vent in old quarter when i dropped into a guardroom and read a journal about a guard who blackmails the bar for a bottle of fine wine each night, which i can steal and sell for 100 gold. while i haven't played the first thiefs (i want to, though), DS still has big non-linear worlds, and even lets you freely explore the City between them. there are many ways to beat the levels, and while they may be less than dark project and metal age, deadly shadows is still good
(wow that was longer than i intended)
 

Chainsauce

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Aug 14, 2010
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This article finally made me get off my lazy ass and install Knytt.

You should all go do it too! Like, now.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Quite frankly, SotC's exploration is not really exploration; it's just a lifeless world with nothing in it, making it just a glorified way to pad things out from one boss fight to the next. That's not even in the same league as Metroid Prime or the Zelda series where there are THINGS TO DO AND FIND.
 

qwrtyp

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Apr 20, 2010
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You should check out Yume Nikki. It's a Japanese horror adventure game that looks like Earthbound on a bad trip. It was created using RPG Maker but it's really just about exploring the quite disturbing dreams of a hikikomori.
You might have to look some stuff up to find the good bits and get to the ending. Just try to avoid spoilers.
 

Frozengale

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I've never had the pleasure of playing Shadow of the Colossus. I once bought a copy of it but then gave it away as a Christmas Present to one of my friends, and I've never seen another copy since (I guess I should check Amazon or something).

But I agree that some of the best games are the ones where you can explore. It always annoys me when I pop in a fun looking game with pretty level design and awe inspiring graphics and the first thing I find out is that I can't go off the path. Or when a game puts a nice big arrow/flag/blinking light telling me to go this way, and I decide I want to go look over that way... and suddenly "that" way has an invisible wall or something else blocking my way.

The major downfall of most games in my eyes is a lack of exploration mechanics. Exploration is a base part of the human experience, discovering new places, new things, and just having fun finding ways to get from point A to point "nowhere in particular". More games need to take advantage of this.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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I'm suprised Yahtzee didn't mention Fallout 3 or Oblivion. One of my favourite things about those games was the way you could just set off in a random direction, find important locations, kill the monsters and loot the place and then make a profit. It also worked well with the little 'slice of life' stuff that Bethesda likes to chuck in; NPCs that aren't part of a quest but could be interacted with in a meaningful way. For example, the wastelanders who you occasionally find in Fallout 3 who you can trade with and have them repair your stuff. Of course, these being Bethesda games they will sometimes have some mistake of AI stupidity in front of you thqat will break immersion, but when it works it works really well.
 

Supernova2000

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May 2, 2009
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Scrumpmonkey said:
Games that feature expolation prominantly are amoungst my favorites of all time. Arguable the first (and one of the best) exploration games in 3d space came with "Elite" who's whole mechanic was basically exploration, i still think it's beautyful in it's own way becuase of that pure distilled sense of sapce exploration that modern games like Mass Effect sadly crush into a fine fine dust.
Couldn't agree with you more! Although I've never actually played Elite, the vast majority of post-Elite games seem to think that the best way to recreate it's explorative freedom is to force all their ships to rely utterly on jump gates - or fixed locations where the conditions are 'just right' - for interstellar travel! Egosoft's X series are the most infuriating examples, especially in X3, where space is so beautifully rendered that it begs to be thoroughly explored but all you can ever do is dawdle about inside a small square radius of jump gates in a planets orbit, while all you can do with planets is crawl towards them and bounce off the atmosphere as soon as you get the re-entry warning! Even otherwise good space games like Freelancer have this problem, although Freelancer at least has the decency to let you explore an entire solar system - and actually land on planets, albeit with docking rings - between the gates. You can look at a distant nebula and think "I'm gonna have a look", hit your cruise drive and within 1-10 minutes, you finally meet the pirates who consider your curiosity an offense punishable by death! Freelancers' travel times give the impression of a huge game world, destpite actually being smaller than most.

In Eve Online, the warp drive can get you to a neighbouring planet so fast that I kept worrying I'd overshoot and punch a me-shaped hole through it (which I often did, considering Eve is the no-clip universe) but I'm still forced to use jump gates in strictly pre-determinded paths to get to the next system! NO! Delete the jump gates and make the warp drive interstellar, like it should've been in the 1st place!

I started replaying Mass Effect recently and when I heard the statement "Without the Mass Relays, interstellar travel would be impossible" I thought "Fuck off!!! If that's the case, you don't deserve to be out in space, at least not beyond your home system anyway!"

Check out Infinity: The Quest for Earth because that, so far, looks to be the 1st true freeform space game since...Elite.
 

Racthoh

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That's what I miss about console RPGs nowadays. They don't have a world map to explore, they're just dull linear paths that the story will eventually set you down.
 

Slinker07

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I've been playing minecraft a lot latly. And who knew that competly computer generated worlds could be so fun to just explore in a game that's not even fully finished yet. Really recommend it. (Like everyone else who played it.)

A game I really liked exploring in was Fallout 3 I must say, Oblivion and Morrowind had their share of me wandering around doing nothing. But Fallout 3 completly hooked me, Isn't much in that game I haven't touched. It's more calm when you are running around and somehow more rewarding for me. The atmosphere really succeds along with gameplay that wasen't as frustrating as it can be in morrowind and oblivion.
 

JayDub147

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I agree. No matter what game I'm playing, be it Bioshock or Half-Life, I always feel the need to explore everywhere. Even in all the Halo games games, I made it my mission to find every possible vacation. It's because of that exploration element that the Halo games have stood out to me, for a straight fps, at least. That's not to say that it has more exploration than other games designed explicitly that way. It's the ability to do things that the game didn't account for that I've always liked.

Sort of like in Deus Ex. Now, somebody go reinstall it.
 

ziggy161

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Aug 29, 2008
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I like these extra punctuations :) It's nice to see Yahtzee back up his opinions solidly, so that idiots in the aforementioned twitter post can go play in traffic XD
 

JPH330

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Jan 31, 2010
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I might count as one of those 'fuckwits' you mentioned. I like exploring, but I don't feel very motivated to do so if I'm not going to be encountering any side quests or collectibles or whatever along the way. Then again, most games that are heavily based in exploration have all sorts of stuff like that, like Fallout 3, or as you mentioned, Batman: Arkham Asylum.
 

ziggy161

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The Brewin said:
I think the biggest thing undersold about SOTC was the emotional attachment you forge with the 'characters', that is you, your horse, the mysterious dead girl and the colossi...considering none have any tangible or actual dialogue between one another, you grow incredibly mentally drawn to the colossi, the hulking beasts that I actually felt sorry for.

that and when your beloved horse...well I wont spoil it...
I cried D:
 

Kilo24

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Aug 20, 2008
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I'm not as interested in exploration as a mechanic in most games, mainly because it's done poorly.

Shadow of the Colossus had a large, very prettily designed environment that wasn't broken up by Generic Monster #73 attacking you every five minutes, and as such, you could wander around with impunity. It's one of the few close to worth exploring for cosmetic appreciation, but it still wasn't enough to convince me (granted, I didn't know about the lizards/fruit for the whole game.)

I'd consider Thief and Thief 2 to be the best games exploration-wise that I've played. There's a lot of nooks and crannies, and other ways to approach a guard from behind; the exploration gives you loot (but even the hardest difficulties don't force you to grab it all) but also other ways to tackle a level. It's not "I want all the heart pieces" or "I must find 13 MacGuffins to continue the plot" but rather looking for a wooden beam onto the second story or into the vault, and the good design of the levels means that there are usually multiple ways to get where you want. It's much more integrated into the gameplay, because the advantages you get from exploring are optional and don't feel contrived into a scavenger hunt. Also, the maps help to maintain the feel of the game as well as giving you a decent amount of information (a few exceptions apply, like the Lost City.)

Wind Waker's exploration was poor. Yes, you had lots of space; yes, through manipulation of the wind/warping magic you could get around it at a moderate speed; but the constantly spawning enemies knock you out right when you start to enjoy it and the endless expanse of blue never changes from one place to the other. There are lots of regularly spaced islands, but they're still mostly "do action X to get optional equipment boost Y here, and you're done with this sector." The Triforce hunt late in the game turned the exploration into a mandatory punishment as well: it becomes less about enjoying the scenery as it is about combing every inch of an area, a practice which is as fun as using every inventory object on every object in the game in adventure games.

That's where I stopped playing Metroid Prime - hunting down those artifacts by pacing again and again over previously cleared areas with respawning enemies to find the random little dongle labeled "Bomb me here" is a great way to get players to loathe expansive environments. Outside of that treasure hunt, it still had a pretty linear progression in what you were forced to do (a recurring problem with most Metroidvania games, especially when they're not clear on where the game designers decide you need to go next. Valve's major "genius" to me seems to be integrating that last bit into the game environment.)

I haven't played Batman: Arkham Asylum or Silent Hill, so I can't comment.

Bethesda's games are a good example of expansive environments that can encourage exploration, though I was really only personally impressed by Morrowind's (because it was new.) But they fell to the problem of making the exploration redundant - Morrowind's had no interesting characters nor quests nor much reason to actually visit all the areas the game offered. There were hundreds of caves, but randomly generated loot that would generally be worse than what you had, and leveling/moneymaking was done much more effectively through repetitive grinding. Oblivion did a good bit better on quests and characters, but shot itself in the head with its horrifically applied auto-leveling of monsters that made enemy selection a matter of what level you were, not where you were, and often punished you for leveling up more than the actual level gained you. Fallout 3 seemed a bit better, but still got repetitive and I stopped playing after a series of crashes that come standard to all Bethesda games (I was still rather burnt out on Bethesda's overall style, too).
 

Phuctifyno

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I wonder if Yahtzee's ever played the Metroid Prime Trilogy on the Wii. I've always found platforming in FPS's to be a ***** with analog controls (actually, I found aiming to be a *****, too), but the Wiimote made it all so intuitive. In fact, it's the only series that I felt the Wiimote gave a significant improvement to basic gameplay (barring all that gimmicky knob-turning shit in Corruption). I'm actually very surprised that Nintendo hasn't made a bigger deal out of what the Wii's aiming can do for FPS's in general. Maybe it just doesn't gel with the "revolutionary" image.

A bit off topic I guess, but I enjoyed and agree with the article %100.
 

Tolerant Fanboy

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Aug 5, 2009
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I can't help but feel some vague sense of pride or of having been rewarded upon seeing that Yahtzee quite liked some games that I too quite liked. (Metroid Prime and Wind Waker, specifically.) Mr. Croshaw, you amaze me with the level of reverence, vitriol, and other assorted emotions you inspire in me and others. I must say, I envy your Internet fame. Not enough to actually try to make a name for myself, but still.
 

RandV80

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Facktion said:
Metroid Prime absolutely nailed the first person exploration, its a shame the next two games got progressively more linear and story driven.
I agree but with Metroid Prime this would be kind of hard to do unless they have a 'reset' after every game like Legend of Zelda. Metroid Prime was essentially the original flavour Metroid, the 3D equivilent of the original NES Metroid and Super Metroid. Personally I strongly believe the original flavour Metroid is the best gameplay experience, but it would be weird if they kept following the same trend for follow up games so you can't really blame them for trying to mix it up a little.

For the Yahtzee artical I'm kind of surprised that I have this in common with him, since my core genre's are strategy or RPG games. The only time I really venture out of that area is when a game like SotC or Metroid Prime come up which I'll gladly dive into. Unfortunately these types of games are too few and far inbetween to be considered their own genre, buried under a mass of more action orientated games.

Also, like the article says, I sometimes loathe miny maps and compasses. The Oblivion one was horrible because it was too big and front & center so it couldn't be ignored which really helped ruin the game for me. Fallout 3 was better as it found a happy medium making it more obscure and tucking it out of the way into the corner of the screen. For mini-maps, the worst for me was FFXII. They put so much effort into creating that huge open game world, but I missed half of it because I could never keep my off at the big simplistic but informative map in the top right corner of the screen. Kind of like how if you get subtitles turned on a regular english show it's hard to keep your eyes from wandering to the bottom of the screen and reading along when you don't have to.
 

The_ModeRazor

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We need a remake of GTA San Andreas, quickly. They could actually add Bigfoot for you to find or something.
 

romxxii

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GeneticallyModifiedDucks said:
How exactly is Arkham Asylum based around exploration? The game is linear, and the most you can hope for in terms of exploration is backtracking ala Bioshock.
He never said the core gameplay was exploration, he said it has an exploration element, based on the Riddler sidequest and acquisition of new gadgets, which allow access to new areas of the map, ala Zelda.

The main plot may be linear, but the map is expansive enough that you feel like you're in an open world. Illusion of freedom vs. actual freedom. I think Shamus Young wrote an article on this once. Plus finding all those goddamned question mark trophies triggered my obsessive-compulsive side.

Having said that, I always felt SoTC's exploration aspect felt too massive, and always gave me a sense of agoraphobia and anxiety from the impending tedium of getting to the next monster. Maybe it was the dodgy horse controls; I never had any problems exploring in Oblivion, both melee and shooty versions, and I actually enjoyed the horsey rides of Assassin's Creed 2.

Cynical skeptic said:
Another example of over-priced fluff standing directly in the way of making a bigger game with more to explore and do is mass effect and it's sequel. Instead of paying some guy to read off a couple thousand pages of flavor text, how about some more variety in missions, planets, and environments with more plot missions and missions that directly establish whats written/spoken in the codex?

We have the tools to make living, breathing worlds. In these worlds, hundreds of pages of text can be compressed into a single observable event. The bachelor party in me2, for example, gives more information and context on the asari than EVERYTHING written/spoken in the codex.
BioWare loves the Codex text-dump. Personally, I never read any of their games' codices unless they're quest-based, like in DA. Since ME2 never had any quest-based codex entries, I'd only read it when I was getting bored. I agree with using the environment and minor characters to define the setting more than codices (Half Life 2 managed to do this no problem), though I understand why you'd want it in a setting where everyone assumes you know what a damned Thresher Maw is.

Also agree with more sidequests; some of the N7 missions, despite the relatively small maps and XP output, are pretty interesting (the geth weather controller, the batarian terrorist attack). Now had they devoted more spoken dialogue to sidequests like that, and added some map exploration like in Overlord, and minimize the tedium of mining, and give us an exploration vehicle with good maneuverability, decent armor and stopping power, then we'd have a perfect ME game. Oh and bring back Legion as a squadmate.