On Remakes and Nostalgia

[Nazulu]

TBH to both opinions, there are a few story games that support him. I can think of Myst, The Secret of Monkey Island, and Riven, that all of their gameplay features were told through the story involved. It's not prevalent but these were popular games while others were playing Secret of Evermore or Shadowrun. Let's also not forget Psychonauts or anything Tim Schafer related that really pushed the boundaries (even if some of them didn't sell well)

Whats TBH? Anyway it's not like I said there are no great story games because I would have been very wrong.

7ru7h is saying storyless games that are released 'these days' would not remain popular over time like story games and I am saying that is a load of barnnicles.

 

[Dana22]

No no no.

Left 4 Dead was a grilled cheese sandwich. It was tasty and awesome.

Now, Left 4 Dead 2 is a grilled cheese sandwich (using the same bread) with the tuna slapped all over cheese. Now, some people were disapointed that they had had to buy whole new sandwich to taste tuna and it still had cheese in it (like in the last one), or why they couldnt get tuna separately to put it in cheese sandwich they already have.

But bollocks I say ! Cheese-Tuna sandwich is awesome, it has that flavor we all know but tuna adds much more then anyone expected.

 

[MrDarkling]

a DELICIOUSLY good read.
Some mario bashing....and now I'm hungry
HOO RAAA.

 

[Gindil]

TBH to both opinions, there are a few story games that support him. I can think of Myst, The Secret of Monkey Island, and Riven, that all of their gameplay features were told through the story involved. It's not prevalent but these were popular games while others were playing Secret of Evermore or Shadowrun. Let's also not forget Psychonauts or anything Tim Schafer related that really pushed the boundaries (even if some of them didn't sell well)

Whats TBH? Anyway it's not like I said there are no great story games because I would have been very wrong.

7ru7h is saying storyless games that are released 'these days' would not remain popular over time like story games and I am saying that is a load of barnnicles.

It means "To Be Honest".

I'd say that there are a lot more games with story than there are games that are all about the gameplay. Usually, they are simple algorithms to wile away the time. Tetris, Boom Blox, Pac Man... All of these are pretty simple. Even then, if Joseph Campbell is to be believed, what usually happens is people add their own stories to this simple gameplay.

Ex:

Tetris - The cold war has continued. America has constantly been at our door about their capitalism and need for change. Comrade, we need material. We are giving money for you to make the lines for the Wall. For every four lines, it is a bonus to commission. Only you, comrade, can save us.

 

[Cocamaster]

I keep on forgetting back in those days we combined our imaginations with the game.

You obviously did, because last time I checked, our imaginations weren't part of the "story" of the games.

And I did read you comments on Peggle and Tetris; I just found them ridiculous and unfounded, considering they are some of the most popular games still played today. Using them as examples of story-less games having no staying power is extremely ironic. Comparing them to Sunday strips is just shortsighted. Chances are there are more people playing Peggle and Zuma, and will play for a lot longer, than people playing Dragon Age Origins.

In other words, the claim that games need a story to last longer is still ridiculous.

For the last time, I AM NOT saying storyless games aren't popular, I'm saying they don't tend to last. Sure, you can bring up games that don't agree with what I'm saying, but can you honestly see some of the games we consider classics lasting if they had their stories removed?

Multiplayer games are very popular, agreed?

I already stated this, but it's worth repeating:

Every fighting game played in Vs mode strips away the story. You don't pick a fighter and think "what's his motivation for fight?" You want to beat the other player, regardless of what the story might tell you their interactions should be.

?same with First Person Shooter Deathmatches.

So the idea that story-less games don't last is not supported by reality. On the contrary, most story-driven games are played only ONCE by the big majority of people; that's the sole reason we don't see many single player only FPS games anymore.

Also, I don't think anyone is saying that a good game can't benefit from a good story; it's true that some of the best games out there combine them well.

It's the notion that the story is somehow REQUIRED that's in contention here. We don't agree because history disagrees. You need to have a GOOD GAME as basis for a GOOD STORY to have any sort of lasting impact, and in it's most fundamental form, a videogame does not need a story.

 

[JWAN]

I guess Yahtzee can get away with religious comments like that simply because nobody dares question him. Or because he is in fact, God.

I'd like to see him make a jab like that at Muslims.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Other than that:
Mario wont ever be retired because he's the fucking Nintendo mascot

L4D2 is better than the first one. They fixed the problems they had with the first one (Verses mode for an example) but what they should have done was expand the story. They have bits and pieces of the story laying around (e.x maps in the hotel first room on the right) but you need to look for it. Its a lot like Portal in that respect.

 

[JWAN]

liked the god reference.. (*G*od?)
nintendo should seriously start something new
like.. zelda in space..

I'd like to see him make a Jab at Islam like that. (I open to bashing any Religion though but I like the irony of the "Religion of Peace" burning effigies and threatening to stone people to death)
------------
As long as Mario is the mascot of Nintendo Mario will live.

Its like the Hoosiers making football games and all of a sudden you kill the Hoosier and replace it with the Bullwevel mascot. Why would you do that? If your making money, and the formula works why stop?

 

[Pegghead]

One of my favourite game critics just referenced one of my favourite hosts from one of my favourite tv shows. AND THEY WERE IN THE SAME ROOM! Sorry for that outburst there but I totally agree, companies should stop remaking or continuing old franchises and just come up with some new bloody ideas. Ooh haven't got the man power or the creativity well look at companies such as Valve or Bungie who listen to what their audience wants (Even if those audiences consist entirely of fanboys, but at least they're making somewhat original games from the community suggestions).

 

[lewiswhitling]

K, saying that L4D had a setting and characters and atmostphere.. but that the lack of story line makes it "a mere piece of toast", i.e. a thing that is inferior to a "proper" story sandwich - Absolute rubbish. Many books, films and gallery art peices draw their value entirely from setting, and atmostphere alone. This idea of story line being the sole indicator of an artistic soul (eh!), is so antiquated and shallow. L4D had a bigger impact on me, art-wise, than any final fantasy or Tim Schafer game i've played so far.

Stories are more than joined up plot points. It's the way you tell them that is the hard thing. You can have deep and complex plot based enterprises that are utter shite due to bad story telling. Or you can have relatively static settings, with little plot progression, but that are truely epic because of the way they're portrayed.

Narrative is also something you interject at your own discretion, onto anything. Tetris has a narrative according to some people. This isn't to say they're wrong, so long as you can narrate the actions of a game in someway; it will have narrative potential. But to say that this is a special feature of games, which should be considered on the same level as good gameplay design... sorry, no agreement here. TF2 has no story line, other than the one which you get by reading the comics on their website, or which players themselves impose onto the characters. Still is one of the best games out there imo.

N shut up about the God thing! It isn't funny! It will only ever make people wryly smile or nervously laugh, cos those you offend are only trying to cover up their annoyance with you. And those who agree with you will sink into a "yea! yea, heh!" kinda state, and have the rest of their focus taken up with making the leap to the bandwagon.. which is so crowded that people cant tell the wheels from the rolling piles of stale old corpses.

 

[Nazulu]

TBH to both opinions, there are a few story games that support him. I can think of Myst, The Secret of Monkey Island, and Riven, that all of their gameplay features were told through the story involved. It's not prevalent but these were popular games while others were playing Secret of Evermore or Shadowrun. Let's also not forget Psychonauts or anything Tim Schafer related that really pushed the boundaries (even if some of them didn't sell well)

Whats TBH? Anyway it's not like I said there are no great story games because I would have been very wrong.

7ru7h is saying storyless games that are released 'these days' would not remain popular over time like story games and I am saying that is a load of barnnicles.

It means "To Be Honest".

I'd say that there are a lot more games with story than there are games that are all about the gameplay. Usually, they are simple algorithms to wile away the time. Tetris, Boom Blox, Pac Man... All of these are pretty simple. Even then, if Joseph Campbell is to be believed, what usually happens is people add their own stories to this simple gameplay.

Ex:

Tetris - The cold war has continued. America has constantly been at our door about their capitalism and need for change. Comrade, we need material. We are giving money for you to make the lines for the Wall. For every four lines, it is a bonus to commission. Only you, comrade, can save us.

KK but I disagree and people making up there own story for a game thats in their head doesn't include really. Also all of these game story's are nothing special at all to remember them by compared to the great movies everybody knows and loves. Thats what 7ru7h is saying, that story games are more likely to become classics because it has a story but I am saying none of these story's are nothing original or special to really make them that interesting.

Oh, and there are 10 times more storyless games than story ones. Most games we see advertise now will have some average story to it but if we are including all the old classics from the ol' NES and Sega then you have no hope.

 

[WorldCritic]

Seems like Yahtzee does manage to get away with quite a bit.

 

[AndresCL]

Seems like he was hungy at the time he was writing the article

 

[psychic psycho]

K, saying that L4D had a setting and characters and atmostphere.. but that the lack of story line makes it "a mere piece of toast", i.e. a thing that is inferior to a "proper" story sandwich - Absolute rubbish. Many books, films and gallery art peices draw their value entirely from setting, and atmostphere alone. This idea of story line being the sole indicator of an artistic soul (eh!), is so antiquated and shallow. L4D had a bigger impact on me, art-wise, than any final fantasy or Tim Schafer game i've played so far.

Stories are more than joined up plot points. It's the way you tell them that is the hard thing. You can have deep and complex plot based enterprises that are utter shite due to bad story telling. Or you can have relatively static settings, with little plot progression, but that are truely epic because of the way they're portrayed.

Narrative is also something you interject at your own discretion, onto anything. Tetris has a narrative according to some people. This isn't to say they're wrong, so long as you can narrate the actions of a game in someway; it will have narrative potential. But to say that this is a special feature of games, which should be considered on the same level as good gameplay design... sorry, no agreement here. TF2 has no story line, other than the one which you get by reading the comics on their website, or which players themselves impose onto the characters. Still is one of the best games out there imo.

N shut up about the God thing! It isn't funny! It will only ever make people wryly smile or nervously laugh, cos those you offend are only trying to cover up their annoyance with you. And those who agree with you will sink into a "yea! yea, heh!" kinda state, and have the rest of their focus taken up with making the leap to the bandwagon.. which is so crowded that people cant tell the wheels from the rolling piles of stale old corpses.

I agree with everything you had to say. Great insight.

 

[WaderiAAA]

I haven't got NSMBW yet, but I will. I think the gameplay is so good, that new levels and a couple of new suits, plus multiplayer is enough to satisfy my need for innovation.

 

[eva243]

It was a rather intresting blog, although I suppose I don't really understand why people get so peeved at a Mario game doing something similar. I mean even in the article Yahtzee explains how every Mario game is different up until NSMBWii. Yet him and a lot of other people have been giving NSMBWii a lot shit for being the same when there are a lot of other franchises out there there that have sequels, and they are pretty much almost a reimaging of the original yet no one gives them shit for being the same. :/ I guess I just don't get the hatred towards the game.

 

[SupaMechaDeathChrist]

Again, no. There are many new levels, some new power-ups, a 4-player versus option, a 4-player versus component, motion controlled areas and the Super Guide. This is not the same game.

Anyone else find that incredibly ironic?

How so?

I really can't understand this antipathy towards this new Mario game. Hasn't every Zelda game follwed what is essentially the same formula as it's predecessors with a new gimmick or two?
Even with the transition into three dimensions, they kept the core gameplay, and those games would have worked in the old top-down format.
Look at the DS iterations of Zelda. Quite similar to the SNES/Gameboy era. Utilizing the stylus, but essentially unchanged.
Adding new elements to a much-loved formula is okay.

What I'm worried about is Mario Galaxy 2. Couldn't they think of a new setting?

After space, where the hell are you supposed to go? And don't say Alternate Dimensions and cross overs please.

hmmm, well,
wait no...they have already done inside a body,

but trust me, Nintendo will find a way,

they always do.

 

[TheEnglishman]

What about Mario: Time Space Continium (yes I know he said it as a joke but I think too much)

A Mario where Mario travels through time to fight with his ancestors (pirate Mario, knight Mario, Future Mario) to rescue Peach from a time travelling Bowser whoose kind of like the Terminator. Time travelling could be done kind of like in Mario Galaxy with Mario flying through space.

Just a thought?

 

[SkullCap]

The God comment made me rather happy. I hate religion, so, so much.

I prefer faith over religion.

 

[SFR]

So, you don't want people to make new Mario games with the old game mechanics, you'd rather have them make remakes? Good God, every other article you write is a contradiction to yourself.

Also, yes, L4D2 doesn't really have a story, not a big one anyway... although it has a lot of backstory for the observant. That doesn't change the fact that it's 3 times bigger than the first one. I wish everyone would make bigger sequels but have them be cheap expansions. I'd be less poor but get to play a lot more games... Then game making companies would go broke and go out of business... Then I'd have no choice to exercise a lot... Then I'd get all strong and stuff... Then I'd come to your house and punch you in the face for making me over think things!

 

[freysev]

Bajo from ABC TV's Good Game series, brought up how he knows people who will buy and play every new Mario game regardless of perceived quality simply because "it's Mario." I responded - in retrospect, a little too hastily - with "yeah, it's like talking to people who believe in God."

lol brilliant