On the subject of Horror and Co-op

[JustOrdinary]

Having played mostly nothing but co-op and mmo games these past couple of months, I've noticed myself tending to skip story and atmosphere in favor for faster gameplay - which is odd, because I almost exclusively play narrative-heavy/freeroaming games when playing I'm alone.

That said, I tried out Left 4 Dead with a friend... and yeah, pretty much unscariest experience I've ever had. All of the standard horror cliches thrown in meant to illicit fear felt more annoying than anything else. Flashlights in dim lighting turned into brightness-upping-nuisances, overwhelming zombie horde felt tedious and repetitive, sudden environment-collapsing jumpscares were met with apathy and resounding 'mehs' all around, etc. Not that Left 4 Dead's a bad game. I'm sure you all have your reasons for loving it, I just couldn't bring myself to playing anything beyond the hospital campaign.

Anyway, it got me thinking about my experience with Amnesia, and how some of the same gameplay elements (e.g the lantern in the dark) felt utterly, utterly terrifying. My rationale was that the game's slow and deliberate pacing, coupled with the lack of friendly company to comfort you, did a better job of creating atmosphere. By feeling more real and immersed, you lost sight of the 'gamey' aspects.


But then I thought about how horror movies in theaters can still leave a lasting impression. Even if you're watching a movie at home with your friends around, you can still be jumpy at loud noises and paranoid for slight movements when you're left alone. I've had absolutely no luck with horror games in the same respects, like RE5 or Deadspace 2... hell, even the time I played Silent Hill 3 with a friend beside me, it suddenly felt tame.


I'm clearly missing out on something obvious here as to why co-op games can't be scary, so I ask you, the escapist community, to help shed some light on this matter. Do you think games can evoke fear in a group the same ways movies do? If so, how could they go about accomplishing this? What do you think would need to change in games to make them feel like horror? What's currently holding the horror genre back from being scary in the first place?


... Anyone?

 

[JesterRaiin]

- Assumption that everything can be killed if properly smacked
- Convenient placement of weapons and ammo
- Health regeneration/medpacks
- Same story, setting, environment
- Cliched moves and effects (like you pointed out)
- "oh look, yet another undead monster"

Where's horror in that ? :|

 

[Zhukov]

a) L4D isn't a horror game and was never supposed to be.

b) Co-op can't be scary because you can't get immersed in something while casually chatting with a friend.

 

[Deadyawn]

That's how it works. Even the scariest experience is much more manageable when there is someone with you because it grounds you and prevents immersion. That's not to say co-op isn't awesome and fun but just that it's a serious immersion breaker.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I didn't like L4D much, having hordes of the same monsters suddenly appear and run at you again and again isn't scary.

...

Was playing Vampire the Masquerades: Bloodline with a mod that allows you to have NPCs follow you round and help you fight things (which is sorta cool, but unofficial and fairly crude).

Now, there's this long sewer bit that everyone seems to hate, but loses its impact doing replay...but when you play with NPC minions that suddenly stop being around, you notice being alone more than when you expect to be. Same in SWAT4, once you've got no squad left, things get really tense.

IMHO, scary games are about breaking the rules, giving the player something to make them feel safe, and then taking it away. Now, letting people play horror games single player, but then suddenly isolating people without warning and not letting them have any in game communication might work.

Another idea I like is difficulties in immediately recognising who is a PC model and who is an NPC during combat...hard to do right, though.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Real life company breaks immersion because they are a constant reminder you are only playing a game, that's why multiplayer games can never do real story and atmosphere.

Horror movies only really work when everyone is quiet, have someone interrupt you and it's all gone.

And L4D isn't a horror game, simply a co-op adventure.

 

[Dandark]

L4D is not and was never meant to be a scary horror experiance. It was made as a co-op game. It is impossible to get scared in a Co-op game because you are with someone, chatting with them and you know that your not alone.
The scariest games have you all alone.

Of course, if your looking for a game you can play with friends that can be scary sometimes, I'd go with the latest AvP. When we still played it, we got about 4 people in a private game.

One person was the Alien and the other 3 marines, however the marines were only allowed to use their pistols and the flamethrower(The most usless and uneffective weapons in the game).
The alien wasn't supposed to kill people but just to startle them, it wasn't incredibly scary or anything rivalling an acutal horror game but it was pretty fun.

Especially since we played on the Pyramid map, which if anyone has seen the first AvP movie, is the ancient pyramid with walls and floors that constantly move about.

 

[RemuValtrez]

I think it's just the fact that you're there with someone you know, a friend of course. It can make dealing with attempts at horror fail quite often. If it does it right though, it can scare the hell out of both of you. You just can't quite get into a game when you can look at a friend (if you're playing in the same room) and laugh at some of the things they throw at you.

 

[Gatx]

I don't think anyone's ever truly tried to make a horror experience for multiplayer though. Left 4 Dead, F3AR, Resident Evil 5, and so forth, are all action games with a horror aesthetic so any "scare" is meant to give you a thrill that's akin a grenade land next to you in Halo or something rather than true horror. A good horror experience and co-op should be possible, theoretically, somehow. I mean it's not like all horror has to do with isolation and solitude right. Like, two players investigate an abandoned house, one guy says he thinks he sees something, which sets the partner on edge etc. etc. The game could also do some unique things, such as making points in the game where you have to split up, but also having monsters that look like your partner sneak up on your, etc. Of course this would have to be online co-op so you wouldn't have the comfort of having someone physically nearby, and require that you weren't playing with total assholes or something.

 

[tombman888]

Well, firstly, L4D isn't a horror game, so if you went into it expecting horror, you're already going to be disappointed right off the bat (Still one of my favourite games though)

And i too found Amnesia to be utterly terrifying... still haven't finished it.

Speaking of Amnesia, it would be cool if someone modded a Co-op feature into it. Sure it'd be less scary but THANK GOOD FOR THAT because i can't play it because i'm too scared.... =(

<--- pansy

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

I think it has to be said that co-op games can certainly have tension. Left 4 Dead had tension. And tension can often create a response that's a lot like fear. But no, I do think pure horror is horrific because of isolation. "Four against all" may be a tense, on-the-wire experience, but it isn't scary.

 

[Dutch 924]

FEAR 3 wasn't scary when it was in co-op, primarily because (like others have said) it takes away the scariness when someone is with you.

A great way to compare horror games is put Amneisa (a truly scary game) alongside Dead Space 2 (a game that claims to be scary).

If you were running out of ammo in DS2, you could just stamp on the nearest corpse or backtrack to a store. If your lantern runs out of oil in Amnesia, the game says, "Tough sh*t. You shouldn't have been so greedy. Maybe if I'm nice I'll put some in a small chest in a dark room, guarded by a monster."

That's what made it scary. It wasn't just the monsters out to get you, but the game itself.

 

[cheesyman987]

The thing about horror is that it's hard to be scared of something if you can get rid of it easily. That's where the horror in Amnesia comes from; the fact that you can't fight back. The fact that not only you're armed to the teeth, but you also have a friend with you that is armed to the teeth takes away all the horror in it. Of course, I don't consider Left 4 Dead a horror game, much like I don't consider Dead Rising a horror franchise.

 

[alrekr]

If you're with someone, you're less scared. Simple as that. Being alone is SCARY. Totally, utterly alone.

Of course, if we could get some 'The Thing' going where someone's the monster but you don't know who and so everyone starts turning on each other...yeah, that could be scary. But I don't see that happening in a game.

There was a game made about the thing. It was a squad based thrid person survival horror game; and yes your squadmates could could turn on you and go crazy and stuff.