On The Wayside [Closed, Started]

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ThreeWords

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Sharrow's gaze is constant, unfazed by Marcus words. Indeed, his eyes glitter, as if he is about to share his own depths, until Darren speaks.

"I have little sympathy for those who seem only good and evil" he replied, a smile upon his lips, "An action cannot be evil; what does it know of morality?"
 

PleasantKenobi

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"Sharrow, you are a man after my own heart!" Claudio interjects, "One of the greatest evil that roams these lands is the ignorant absolutist moral codes of conducts people subscribe to."

Claudio takes a moment to breathe deep and stretch once more before seating himself to continue, "Ontological ethical codes are idiotic by their very nature." He pauses to allow his words to sink in, "To say an act is inherently evil, without the pragmatic mindset to consider the action within context is a sad affair indeed."

Leaning forward, Claudio smiles stroking his chin, "Tell me, Darren, would you not happily kill a man to save a hundred?"
 

JoJo

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Darren laughed coldly in response to Sharrow's query and Claudio's injection but his eyes did not smile.

"Is this some sort of riddle, you surely know that an action by it's nature knows nothing? No, evil exists not in the action itself but in the heart and soul of he who committed the act. If a man kills a child, he has committed an evil act and it is a tragedy. If on the other hand a tree fell onto the child instead it would simply be a tragedy alone, as the tree had no intent of landing on the child, as indeed it is incapable of holding any intent, therefore it cannot be evil. As for your question Claudio, I would indeed sacrifice that one man but I wouldn't do so happily, it would be the lesser of two evils so to speak. I say moral relativism is an evil because if that is true, what's to stop us doing whatever we want without consideration?"
 

Tips_of_Fingers

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As Sir Ammon's words disappear into the darkness, The Host glances up from where he had been fiddling with his bowstring. It had been playing up recently, not tightening properly although he wasn't entirely sure why. "Nothin' stops us from doin' whatever we want without consideration, Sir Ammon." He states matter-of-factly. "But I'm sure you know that already..."

The Host reaches for his bow and slowly begins fastening the string onto it. Silence hangs in the air yet around the fire yet again, and The Host looks up, eyebrows climbing up to his hairline. "Sorry," he mumbles softly, "must've forgot meself there."

The Host tugs a few times on the string until it suddenly snaps with a resounding 'twang'. "Blast!" The guests frown at the old man, weariness spreading across his face. He eyes them all patiently. "Don't stop on my account," he says, gesturing with the bow, "by all means, carry on."
 

ThreeWords

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"It is not the action that has moral weight, but the intention involved. Killing a child is evil; what if the child is horribly malformed, and doomed to a life of pain? Or if allowing a pregnancy to come to term will kill the mother and leave her other children motherless?"

Sharrow's face was calm, and his voice measured, but his eyes glittered. Whether it was anger, amusement, or tears could not be for certain.

"There is no such thing as an action without context; I put it to you that the great evil is to judge in binary opposition; such ignorance had surely cost more lives and greater pain than any war"
 

Dectomax

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Marcus listened to the conversation with a smile across his face. shaking his head he spoke up. "My friends, all the men I've killed have been bad. I can assure you this. Yet, this evil you speak of? Are men inherently evil? Or is it just your perception of them that defines their character? Surely a thief is an evil person? Yet what if that thief steals from the rich, to feed his own starving children? Is that evil?" Marcus laughed at their discussion, his deep features casting shadows as the fires light licked at his face.
 

PleasantKenobi

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Claudio looked angry at Marcus' comments.

"You talk of 'bad' men as if what you mean is obvious to the rest of us, yet you openly mock the use of the word 'evil'. Please, indulge me sir, what is the distinction between the judgement one man makes of another being 'evil' and this justification you present that you have only killed 'bad' men?"

Turning to the rest of the group, "Who are we to decide who is evil and who is not?"
 

Dectomax

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Marcus smiled at Claudio. "As I said, it is our perception that defines bad. The men I've killed have tried to take things from me, with a certain lack of politeness. That, at least to me, is a clear definition of bad." He laughed again.
"My friend, it is not for men like me to understand people, I simply walk and live. Men like you, who write the books and scrolls of our times, it is you who understand these things." Marcus smiled again as he reached for a pocket in his leather cuirass and pulled out a small leather pouch. He took out a few fine strips of Jerky and chucked them into his mouth.
 

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"I agree with Sharrow that context does indeed define whether an action is good or evil, but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean they don't exist in themselves. What suffering has the idea of the existence of right and wrong caused "more than war", Sharrow? Those sound like the words of a man who has never been to war."

Darren then turned to Claudio to answer his question.

"Because if we don't judge then who will? See here's one of my problems with moral relativists like you, you claim that nothing is inherently right or wrong but you continue to support a system of law and order and condemn evil acts when you feel like it, it's hypocritical really. To quote what you just said barely a minute ago "One of the greatest evil that roams these lands is the ignorant absolutist moral codes of conducts people subscribe to." Seems like you've already decided what is evil and what is not."
 

ThreeWords

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"We have here evil and evil," declared Sharrow, "So alike as to be mistaken as twins, yet with meanings varied and diverse. One man says evil, and he speaks of his evaluation of a man's soul, or the God-told abhorrence of a terrible deed. Another says evil, and speaks of harm, pointless and stupid, a cause of suffering with no hope of benefit and consolation."

"In my eyes, and I suspect those of our aged companion, the second evil is the one that can be spotted, diagnosed and treated, while the first is a myth only cited as an excuse for the second."
 

Khedive Rex

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Thibadeau exhaled a potent smelling thick smoke that curled in the light of the newly fed fire. He leaned forward slightly to catch an outstretched whisp as the smoke faded, breathing deeply through his nose and sighing contentedly. He held his pipe in his left hand, a simple thing obviously carved from old, weak swamp wood, the sort that lounged just beneath the surface of the pond. He'd listened to the crew of strangers argue about evil and found their views strange and foreign. Propped with his long legs dangling across another stump adjacent to the fire, he could only think of all the simple lessons he'd learned from his home. He took another deep pull from his pipe, holding the smoke in his lungs as his eyes wandered from Claudio, the man who might live forever, to Sai'if, who as far as he could tell was a member of some ancient order everyone else seemed to know about, to Shannow, arguing thoroughly for the absence of any kind of moral obectivity. His eyes lingered on Shannow for a moment, tall like his people but not near as calm.

He released the smoke in a flowing billow, aimed upwards toward the sky. He coughed once and then breathed in deeply through his nose. He took his feet off the stump and turned to where the arguing was happening.

"There don't seem to me to be all that much to confuse between good and bad." He said calmly, less asserting his point and more casually remarking. "I 'pose my heritage may have formed me into a less worldly man but, in the swamps, its simple to know what behavior is good and what behavior is poor. I was taught to ask of every decision, whether I was addin' somethin' to the world or takin' it away. A man builds a school and he adds something, the next man drinks the world's last example of a truely fine vintage and he has deprived his fellow man. Wise man sits down and conjurers up a poison what causes misery before the end, he's added something. Wise man won't handle his guilt and brings about his end prematurely, hes deprived the world of his knowledge and experience. So many people won't get taught."

Thibadeau took another pull from his pipe and let the fumes go early, watching the swirls and forms dance through the cloud, thinking to himself. "I think what I don't understand about all your opinions on morality..." He thought for a moment about how best to phrase it. ".. Is that morality ain't for people. We're tiny, insignificant. I don't know if you noticed. Being kind to your fellow man is nice. Its polite. But ain't nothing to do with morality. Good and evil are actions a man can take to his world, to everythin' living on it and all the future generations. If theres a child what gonna live a painful life and you kill him for politeness, thats friendly. But ain't good. The world don't get that child's story and everythin' he might have done, every person he might have changed, gonna stay undid and unchanged. The world's got less because of what you done and thats evil." He said pausing on the last word.

"Life ain't always friendly but that don't give us the right to excuse ourselves from it. And you ain't doin' the world, the future, no one no favors by escortin' away the folks you think ain't friendly."

Thibadeau took another puff from his pipe and offered it to the crowd at large as he puffed out another ivory cloud. "...I 'pose."
 

ThreeWords

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Sharrow listened to the calm man speak, and for a moment after ge was quiet. Then, he made his reply,

"You say that letting a child suffer or cooking a vicious poison is a benefit to the world? Why is volume more important than quality? Would you say that if I spent my life creating a cult of violence and persecution for my own profit, I would be a good man?"
 

PleasantKenobi

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Claudio begins to laugh, amused by the turn the conversation has taken. Placing a hand over his face to help compose himself, he waits a moment before speaking.

"Oh dear boy, you are quite sure of yourself, aren't you Darren?" Claudio shifts to a more comfortable angle, bringing one leg up underneath himself, "When did I say I respect any form of contemporary law and order? I think you mistake me for a fool, boy."

Leaning over Claudio takes the pipe and nods as Sharrow questions the Swamp dweller. "I simply cannot agree with your outlandish statements Thibadeau. You appear to believe in ideas of fate, and a world or universe that is almost sentient and aware of our actions, how insignificant they may be. I would propose a counter argument, that we are not insignificant, that 'the real' of this world exists solely within the personal space. The subjective nature of the human mind is completely at odds with this notion of an objective reality. A relativist outlook on subjects such as morality works because we all view the world from a particular angle."
 

Khedive Rex

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Thibadeau passed the pipe to the old man with a friendly nod, listening to Shannow respond. When the tall man had finished Claudio also chimed in, disagreeing as well. Thibadeau scratched under his chin and tried to picture the best way to explain it.

"Well," He said finally. "As for your questions Shannow, it all come down to the fact we ain't the only things livin' here. Volume's more important than quality cause quality gonna change for every living thing and there ain't nobody entitled to perfect the world just for them. Bunch a slugs sitting around a campfire probably agree salt is the worst thing on the planet and any holy slug has a duty to do away with it. And that'd be friendly for one slug to another. But I'm personally quite partial to my salt cured meat. Nobody got the right to take things away because nobody can speak for everybody."

"So, your poison what gonna hurt people may be right up somethin' else's ally. Maybe fewer people mean more trees. Maybe more tree's mean more birds. You can't count everythin' in the world, only thing you can count on is it don't revolve around us."

"And as for fate, Claudio, don't believe a whit in it. The world ain't sentient and no one knows whats gonna happen tomorrow. But I can't agree with sayin' the world only exists how we see it. Subjective nature of reality and strict relativism, inherently selfish. I can't imagine wakin' up in the morning and saying to myself the only things in the world what matter are what I can see 'round me bed. If a mosquito bites me while I'm asleep, I'm gonna wake up with a bad itch. That don't mean the mosquito was bad, and I don't got any right to try and do away with it to create a more perfect world for just myself and my views. That mosquito got views of it's own. If I kill a mosquito I done a kindness for my fellow man and a grave injustice to that mosquito. If we're talkin' kindnesses, it balances out. If we're talkin' about whats right and whats wrong, kindnesses don't matter. If you added something to the world you gave something for future generations to grow and change with, kind or unkind. If you took something away, you deprived someone of something."

He nodded gestured to the pipe in Claudio's hand. "How you like that by the way?"
 

Tips_of_Fingers

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As the guests buzzed around him, The Host had been busying himself with waxing another bowstring. Satisfied that it was sufficiently waterproofed, he began attaching slowly attaching it to the length of slightly curved rubberwood that was his bow. Rubberwood was known to be one of the best materials for bows; flexible enough to draw a superior distance but strong enough to ensure that it would hold under great strain, rubberwood was almost unrivalled in it's strengths as a bow.

As Thibedeau orated confidently, The Host chuckled at the swamp man's comparisons. Slugs sitting round a campfire discussing the eradication of salt? The man definitely had some interesting - and amusing - ideas. But that was to be expected from one of the swamp folk though. They created life out of mud, and that meant they had an affinity with creatures that most people would be quick to condemn. The Host had always hated mosquitoes though, that was a certainty. He'd once traded a finely-woven mosquito for four fresh-caught woodpidgeons. Within a day it had holes big enough for a wolf to jump through. Yes, the world would definitely be a better place without mosquitoes.

As he finished fastening the bowstring onto his bow, The Host sat back and examined it thoughtfully. Suddenly, he snapped his head sideways, peering into the darkness. The silence out there had changed, screaming out to him. This had never happened before; he had been certain that they'd all got here safely.

Unsure whether or not to leave his guests, The Host continues to sit perched on his stump, watching his guests continue in their conversations, occasionally peering into the black void beyond the firelight. Despite being unsure of what to do, one thing The Host knew for certain: something was definitely out there.

Just want to clarify that whatever has The Host on edge is nothing any of your characters can sense at all. You are welcome to notice his unease and question him if you wish, though. By the way, I'm really pleased how everything is turning out at the moment, guys! Thanks for really getting your teeth stuck into it!
 

PleasantKenobi

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Blowing out a billowing cloud of smoke Claudio nods a few times, "Not bad, not bad", talking of the pipe. He leans forward and holds it out for another to take. While doing so he exhales, "Why are you so quick to help out the birds and the bees? I would rather kill a thousand animals, or even people, to preserve my own life. Do you expect to be judged in some next life for your actions in this one?"

As one of the others takes the pipe from his hand he sits back, considering what to say for a moment. Then carefully, he speaks, "To live by the inherited doctrine of 'sacred life' or duty to a world that does not care for you is the only true sin. This world is a maelstrom of chaos that only our subjective experiences can make any sense of."

There was something about the camp fire environment that was pushing Claudio to open up with truths he daren't say within the academic forums he had become uses to. He doubts he would admit his self preserving tendencies to the sages of the east, for fear of persecution as a mad man.
 

Red_Fog

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Sai'if had been peering into the soul of Shannow, deciding whether or not he would answer the man's test, but soon found himself listening in on this touchy subject of good and evil. Suddenly he leans back so far and laughs so hard as to nearly fall off his log. Catching himself, he reels his upper body in and places his face between his knees, continuing to laugh hysterically for what seems like several minutes before finally his tirade of laughter trickles down to a few giggles and then stops. Wiping the tears from his eyes he manages to regain his composure.

"I am sorry gentlemen. It is rude of me I know, but it is all just so... hilarious!" A smile breaks his face again and a couple more chuckles escape his lips before he returns to a neutral expression. "I am sorry, but you are all wrong. However, you are all right! Ah, don't mind me, this is great really. Please continue. You're all learning from each other, it is truly great. If only everyone in the world could have an opportunity like this, my job would become so much easier." A few more chuckles, "Ah, truly great."
 

ThreeWords

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"You laugh like a simpleton, despite your implied knowledge if the 'truth'" retorted Shannow, with sarcastic weight on the final word, "The sum total of your input has you no better than an idiot. Curiously enough, like morality, your contribution is the key to defing your qualities; how else may we judge you?"

"Pray, Soul Watchet, offer us this wisdom which causes you such mirth"
 

Khedive Rex

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Thibadeau shook his head a few times and wagged a finger while Claudio finished. He was preparing to interject after the question of whether he beleived in a god or an afterlife, silly concepts like that, but Claudio quickly moved into a slightly more somber tone, discussing the chaotic nature of the world. Thibadeau relaxed and let the old man's final statement hang on the air for a moment.

"Hmm ..." He said not quite breaking his gaze. Another moments' pause punctuated the campfire.

"... You ever been some kid's daddy, Claudio? That may be the best way I can explain it. I ain't got a whit of trust in the afterlife, or any kind of diety. I don't expect to be judged in my next life, because one life's all we get. But I wouldn't kill a thousand men or a thousand birds what to keep myself alive. Because it ain't about me."

Sai'if broke in laughing from the corner, minutes of hilarious gut-wrenching laughs. After an initial startled jump Thibadeau was content to watch the spectacle with a little grin on his face, checking the rest of the campfire to make sure everyone had a good time. Eventually the dark man apologized for his outburst; Thibadeau assured him it was thoroughly unnecessary.

"It's a great time ain't it? I'm not even worried 'bout gettin' back to the swamps. You folks are good company." He slapped the soul-watcher on his shoulder cordially and then returned his attention to Claudio.

"What I was sayin', maybe someday you'll have a daughter and see what I'm talkin' 'bout, but havin' little ones to watch changes how a man thinks. Goes from bein' all 'bout him to all 'bout takin' care, and responsibilty. The worlds a chaotic place, but you sure for the first time your little one got a place in it and you gonna work your fingers to the bone makin' sure she belongs, an she's comfortable. That's what I'm talking about, I 'pose."

"In the swamp we got mud. And the mud makes all kinds of things. Some of us swamp folk we move the mud, look for new things, ideas floatin' around what'll make new life and more life. What I'm sayin' is, I'm responsible for lots a little things roamin' the swamps. And some of them are very smart, and some of them are very fast, and some of them fly in pitch darkness. But all of 'em belong somewhere. And when you can bring that feeling and put it on the whole world, you start to see things different. Suddenly its not a swarm of evil killer bees running people out of their huts, its confused young things lashin' out; lookin' for their place. If you take responsibility for 'em, you don't get judged any kinder when you die. No. There's no paradise world any of us are entitled to. But maybe, if you work at it, you make this world a little better."

Thibadeau bobbed his head up and down. The campfire certainly had a way of eliminating all those little barriers everyone brings up when they gotta say what they think. There was something purer about talking this way. It was nicer.

"That's how I see it anyway."
 

Red_Fog

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"The truth?" Sai'if responds to Shannow, "You see, the thing about the truth is that it encompasses a whole lot. In fact you could say the truth encompasses everything. No one knows the whole truth. Not even we Soul Watchers who can glimpse into a man's true self know the whole truth. Hell if there are Gods or what ever higher powers may please you to believe in, they probably don't know the whole truth either. But, we all have a piece. When we share our piece with others and they share their's, all our pieces get bigger. Only, it ain't that simple. No, not at all. See, we all add untruth's to our pieces of the truth, and we share those untruths with each other as well because how are we to know where the truth ends and the untruths begin? And then a lot of people get the idea that their piece of the truth with all its untruths added is big enough and must be the whole truth and stop taking in other people's pieces and exclaiming that their piece of the truth is the whole truth to everyone they meet. That's how things like religions and philosophical theories come about. Not to say that those things are necessarily bad, as being in that format makes their pieces easier for others to access, and one can take in the pieces from all those religions and theories to make their own piece that much bigger. Granted you also have that much more untruth to sift through, but something about having a bigger piece of the truth makes it a bit easier to sift out the untruths. That's why this is so great. Everyone here has some very different pieces of the truth, and this helps to make all our pieces bigger."