Once again, why I hate the state of American education.

[Lord George]

Am I the only one who thinks Shakespear plays are overhyped in this day and age? I mean, sure, in this day, everything was in context and made sense. But these days, half of the references make little to no sense, even if you decode the ole' English. I would have prefered to read Frankstein when I was in school, myself. Ok, MacBeth was good, but still not fun to read.

Taht's because Shakespeares writings are over 400 years old, and have been copied and used as inspiration for numerous, numerous other stories. It's really hard to read a story and not find some sort of Shakespearean influence. And as far as making sense, it's just the evolution of a language. Back in the day the word "fuck" was not considered a bad word.

OT: Frankenstein?? Really?? It's not that hard of a read, especially compared to other stories that were published around that time frame. If you want difficult pick up Moby Dick.

I know - my point was why do we have to learn it in 400 year old English? Even that movie made little sense - when Romeo is exiled from Venice, I couldn't stop thinking "WTH?! Why is a modern police force NOT hunting he down outside of the city walls?"

What I'm basically saying is, why not make children aware of the originals, and of there influence, but teach them from an updated language version.

But they are basically in normal English, sure there's a few phrases and terms not in use and the odd sentence is worded quite strangely compared to nowadays but its not hard to see what he meant.

You want old English go read Chaucer and his god-damn Canterbury tales. I've put the introduction underneath.

Spoiler

Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote
And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan Zephirus eke with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the Ram his halfe cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open eye-
(So priketh hem Nature in hir corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially from every shires ende
Of Engelond, to Caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke
That hem hath holpen, whan that they were sike.

Now imagine having to read a whole book like that, then doing an exam on it and trying to find the complex meanings hidden inside words you can't even make out.

/rant

I just dislike it when people complain about stuff like Shakespeare or Shelley to be outdated and hard to read. Its nothing compared to real old crappy English.

 

[ottenni]

I'm a bit disheartened with the Australian school system as well. Half the kids can't even spell simple fucking words; I just get the feeling the system has failed them.

What year are you up to?

Grade 12

Which part of Australia are you from? From where i am we can all read fine. I mean you need to read to see how much a slab costs.

OT: Frankenstein, lucky you. We read poetry, Fly Away Peter, Generals Die in Bed, Sky Burial, Island and we watched a film called Jindabyne. It sucked.

 

[Amnestic]

(So priketh hem Nature in hir corages);
...
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;

Wat.

 

[Jim Grim]

Aluminium - AH-LU-MIN-I-UM NOT AL-LU-MI-NUM <<< tip of the iceberg

DAMN STRAIGHT!

Edit: Also, Colour, Centre, and Armour, NOT Color, Center, Armor.

Wut, they spell and pronounce words differently to us in a country miles across the Atlantic? DAMN. THAT IS RIDICULOUS.
Excuse, I'm gonna go watch Top Gear then complain to the Daily Mail about everything that restricts my substantial cash flow slightly.

Aaaanyway... Yeah that sounds like a pretty poor state of affairs. I feel for you, OP.

 

[Cherry Cola]

My teacher praised me for my knowledge in English when I proved that "dissection" was a real word. I told her that I didn't deserve the praise she gave me. When she asked why I said that being praise by an idiot isn't necessary, since it's obvious that I am smarter than her.

 

[Doug]

Aluminium - AH-LU-MIN-I-UM NOT AL-LU-MI-NUM <<< tip of the iceberg

DAMN STRAIGHT!

Edit: Also, Colour, Centre, and Armour, NOT Color, Center, Armor.

Wut, they spell and pronounce words differently to us in a country miles across the Atlantic? DAMN. THAT IS RIDICULOUS.
Excuse, I'm gonna go watch Top Gear then complain to the Daily Mail about everything that restricts my substantial cash flow slightly.

Aaaanyway... Yeah that sounds like a pretty poor state of affairs. I feel for you, OP.

LOL, what, like having to pay higher taxes to bail out the bankers who pay little or no taxes, and yet bankrupted our economy?

As for Top Gear, meh, I find Clarkson alittle too unbearable most of the time.

 

[Agema]

It's not just the USA.

I teach in a middle-ranking UK University, and I find the general calibre of students pretty disappointing.

What subject?

Neuroscience/Pharmacology.

That's just shocking. I'm studying at Durham (Applied Psychology, certainly not the hardest of subjects) and the quality of students around me is everything I expect from University. I know there's probably some rules against disclosure and whatnot, but do you have any examples? Colour me curious.

Durham is a better university than the one I work in currently and has higher entry requirements, so should have better students on average than we do here. I'm not sure is just intelligence. Some of it goes into the realm of work effort and passion for the subject.

It's not ethical for me to put specific examples in a public forum. What I would say is that there are answers to questions that make it clear some students not only doesn't understand the subject, but they evidently don't know or understand large amounts of their previous classes. It's not uncommon to find answers from third year undergrads or even MSc students that have obvious factual errors they should know from biology at A-level or even GCSE, never mind their degree.

 

[PurpleLeafRave]

In my English class we read Romeo and Juliet, the beach, the crucible, of mice and men, lord of the flies and to kill a mocking bird...in one year. (last year)
I actually enjoy my English classes.

 

[Numb1lp]

Yes, ebonics, gotta love it.

 

[Kuhly]

I'm a bit disheartened with the Australian school system as well. Half the kids can't even spell simple fucking words; I just get the feeling the system has failed them.

What year are you up to?

Grade 12

Which part of Australia are you from? From where i am we can all read fine. I mean you need to read to see how much a slab costs.

OT: Frankenstein, lucky you. We read poetry, Fly Away Peter, Generals Die in Bed, Sky Burial, Island and we watched a film called Jindabyne. It sucked.

Probably New South Wales. That whole state has fallen into a big stinking heap and nobody likes them.

This reminds me of an incident at my first job selling pizzas, and i had to explain to an American sailor that he was holding a $20 note and what he should be using when he was buying a pizza.

 

[Left4Meds]

"disorientation."

1/5th of my class can't pronounce that.

 

[CouchCommando]

could be worse, my father made sure that I was attending the worst, yes worst performing school in my entire area. Whack job thought it would be character building. Teachers used to just sit back and deride the students, and those were the good ones (teachers that is). They closed it down a couple of years after I finished thank god. Long story short, 2 guys from my class are dead from drug over doses, 5 are serving long term jail sentences for crime. And the rest of us are either doing menial service jobs, or if you are lucky got a trade or your own business. I fucking hate public schools, and will never send my children to them from my personal and very bad experience.

Only reason I actually got a qualification is because I studied other shit in my own time, not the useless pap they were throwing us in the classes.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

LOL, what, like having to pay higher taxes to bail out the bankers who pay little or no taxes, and yet bankrupted our economy?

Got a better plan?

 

[paragon1]

Damn, dude, what piece of shit school did you go to? I went to a public school in a poor rural community in South Carolina, and our class sounds a hundred times better than what you experienced. Most of what we covered were short stories or excerpts (not because people couldn't handle it, as I understand it we had quite a curriculum to cover), but we covered at least one of Shakespeare's plays and a classic American novel every year.

 

[paragon1]

You want old English go read Chaucer and his god-damn Canterbury tales. I've put the introduction underneath.

Spoiler

Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote
The droghte of March hath perced to the roote
And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan Zephirus eke with his sweete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
Hath in the Ram his halfe cours yronne,
And smale foweles maken melodye,
That slepen al the nyght with open eye-
(So priketh hem Nature in hir corages);
Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
And specially from every shires ende
Of Engelond, to Caunterbury they wende,
The hooly blisful martir for to seke
That hem hath holpen, whan that they were sike.

Now imagine having to read a whole book like that, then doing an exam on it and trying to find the complex meanings hidden inside words you can't even make out.

/rant

I just dislike it when people complain about stuff like Shakespeare or Shelley to be outdated and hard to read. Its nothing compared to real old crappy English.

Ha! Sucks to be you. We got to read the translated version (and I have to say, it was a really really good translation). Although, I seem to recall the Tales being in Middle English. I'm pretty sure most people would find Old English (think Beowulf) completely unintelligible (unless they speak German).
Oddly enough, no one ever seems willing to translate it into Modern English (even though its been translated into Modern French, Spanish, German, Japanese, etc.). Maybe it's because people are afraid they're commiting some kind of sacrilige? I don't see why. Some parts make plenty of sense, but then some of the others are barely intelligible (to me)

 

[Doug]

LOL, what, like having to pay higher taxes to bail out the bankers who pay little or no taxes, and yet bankrupted our economy?

Got a better plan?

Take the massive, ricidulous bonuses they gave themselves away and use that to, if not fully, then at least partially pay for the damage they caused.

 

[Agema]

Convert Shakespeare to modern English, you'll lose at least some of the iambic pentameter, the beautiful phraseology, imagery, and possibly some of the symbolism.

Whilst many people might be happy with nothing more complex than Dan Brown or J. K. Rowling, as some authors aim rather higher it befits an education system to give everyone an opportunity to see that there's more to literature than a plot line.

* * *

The earliest English anyone could probably read is Chaucer (ca. 1400) and they'd still need plenty of notes and explanations. Anything before that almost certainly would need translation.