One Last look at Mass Effect 3.

[Kingjackl]

I've found that all the people who ***** about the endings are the ones who ended up picking Destroy. Which strikes me as a bit of faulty logic: you pick the ending where you knowingly commit genocide and then get upset about things being bleak and depressing! I on the other hand am a Control boy, so I got the Reapers to fix the mass relays, the geth stayed alive, the organics stayed organic and everybody lived happily ever after with my Shepard becoming the benevolent emperor of the galaxy. Yeah, it's a bit of a heavy-handed way to end a series, but he was already a Mary Sue to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, he's an awesome Mary Sue and fun to play as, but facts are facts.

Also, Mordin's death is one of those gaming moments that will stay with me for a long time. Between him, Grunt, Thane and Legion, Mass Effect 3 rivals stuff like John Marston's last stand, Andrew Ryan's final speech and Batman carrying the Joker out of the theatre in terms of sheer emotional weight.

 

[Savagezion]

I share the same opinion as Film Critic Hulk

However, part of my major disagreement that I alluded to above was that he never actually addressed why he liked the ending. The delivery of the ending was only ever briefly touched upon along with waxing poetic about the nature of the ending and yadda yadda cycles, blah-blah death and rebirth.

I enjoy FCH but he misses the mark a fair amount. Mass Effect's theme wasn't cycles. The only cycle ever brought up was the reaper cycle. It got brought up from many different vantage points (the protean civilization rose and then fell... because of the reaper cycle.) The game's theme was more about the conflict of working together in spite of differences. Essentially racism is more present in the game than cycles. The game even makes a point to tell you that synthesis would be bad as it would stagnate society's creativity and ingenuity due to everyone viewing everything the same way. (This was even Javik's explanation for why the proteans couldn't stand against the threat) I didn't see more than one cycle in the game to call it a theme. So much so that when the word 'cycle' is used in the game, it always refers to the reaper cycle specifically.

This is why I found FCH's analysis rubbish. He couldn't even pick out 1 of the game's actual themes to support the ending. He basically said "As I played, the game used the word cycle a lot so the ending was poetic because it said cycle a lot too."

 

[IronMit]

I became heavily invested in Mass effect because it was supposed to be a ''planned'' trilogy.

I say planned but obviously not everything is planned, but the reaper motivations, prothean legacy, the main mysterious have to be planned right? unplanned are The things which are more a tool to advance certain themes and the bigger story include the illusive man and collectors- that is completely fine btw

Then later after Drew left the project he said 'the order-chaos AI' ending was one of many considered? along with dark energy? I am pretty sure he was just defending his own team. He can't be happy about it because he has been 'so busy he hasn't had time to play it'. This is a universe that he lead the creation of.

How can you be winging the fundamentals of the plot in a planned trilogy. Seriously they made ME1 with 5000 years of detailed established lore...but they couldn't come to decision on why the reapers are doing this? how they were created?

ME2 had dark energy forshadowing.

This is where the problem of ME3 started...it was not just the ending. They went for a different self contained story for new players that ignored much of ME1,ME2.
There were many advantages the galaxy had that they never had before; no surprise attack at heart of citadel, the citadel, the relay network, at least 2000 years longer,thianx cannons reverse engineered, diverse (whearas protheans kept saying their weakness were that they were the same). These all went out the window for 'reapers attack! over powered, deus ex machina everyone can understand'.

I will not buy the next mass effect game. If they mess up a planned trilogy that badly what's going to happen to an unplanned installment

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

I've found that all the people who ***** about the endings are the ones who ended up picking Destroy. Which strikes me as a bit of faulty logic: you pick the ending where you knowingly commit genocide and then get upset about things being bleak and depressing! I on the other hand am a Control boy, so I got the Reapers to fix the mass relays, the geth stayed alive, the organics stayed organic and everybody lived happily ever after with my Shepard becoming the benevolent emperor of the galaxy.

It could have something to do with the fact that Destroy is the most consistent with the goal of the series, i.e. stop the Reapers, and that the death of the Geth and EDI is so transparently and obviously an arbitrary punishment that is only added in to keep most players from heading straight for that one after Casper the Genocidal Ghost makes his spiel.

It could also be because it is what the Illusive Man, a secondary antagonist, wanted to achieve, and he was portrayed as mad and wrong until the end, and it was shown that his pursuit made him lose his soul and humanity in the process. And we only got the word of the leader of the main enemy that it will work for Shepard. That it then actually works for Shepard, comes across as a huge fluke, even if you metagame the hell out of it.

 

[DioWallachia]

I should amend that, he focused far too much in both columns on the reactions of others. I agree with him that fan reaction was unreasonable, honestly I used to be in one of the "change the ending" camps but I've revised my position after I first read his article because he's right that, it is entitled and anti-art.

You know what ELSE is anti-art?

Imagine an Orwellian's 1984 Dystopia, where the population doesnt believe in an Objective Reality because "There is no way to objectively measure something as good or bad. Therefore, everything is subjective" Where every person alive has been lied to so many times that they actually believe that (you know, just like how people are being lied to on the "ME3 and Dynasty Warriors make children violent." Since everything is subjective, works like Citizen Kane are equally as good as Birdemic, Gone With The Wind is equal as Twilight, Melancholia is equal to Mein Kampf, and so on.

And for this reason i ask to the artists of the world: What is the point of trying anymore? People no longer take seriously your efforts, your "Stanley Kubrikian" attention to detail, the visual storytelling, nothing. Your efforts are now completely meaningless since people its too dumb to notice the sheer difference between works. No point competing with other artist if your godlike efforts to move the medium foward with a movie the "The Fall", is going to be meet with the same standing ovation like the lazily designed "Transformer 2"

If people doesnt demand quality from art, then art is meaningless. This is the gift of ME3 "Artistic Integrity". A world that NO ONE can say anything wrong about something fundamentaly wrong because we are "entitled" and therefore, wrong by default. And developers ruining the path for other artists to actually bring true innovation, because the audience would have stopped trying to ask good art.

Spoiler: Artistic Integrity at work, gentlemen

DAT INTEGRITY

And now back to ME3: If Casey and Walter reeeeeeeally want to defend their "vision" (because its sooooo important that they send their message to the world) then why is it that we never see them in the Comic Cons with the filthy unwashed masses, and instead they hang out with people that tell them how awesome they are for getting away with this bullshit?


They DID say they were going to do that....but didnt.

And why they say THE DAY BEFORE RELEASE that all answers about the Protheans and the Reapers backstory would NOT be on DLC.....and yet....


...here is it.

Oh, by the way, This is ALSO the player story, not just the artist. At least, it WAS until ME2. Since Armando Troisi didnt work on ME3

 

[Machine Man 1992]

snip for great justice.

It's obvious you like the ending but what I don't get is why you keep perpetuating this anti-consumer screed. Yes, games are art. They are also a product, as I've said before. Movies are art, music is art, paintings are art, but the moment money changes hands, they are automatically classified as a product as well. When someone fucks a product up as badly as Bioware did with Mass Effect 3, customers are entitled (nyuck, nyuck!) to air their greivences with the company. Again, Bioware is under no obligation to bend to their fans desires, but the fact that they did, must indicate something about their collective confidence in their own art work. They could have easily said, "fuck off and deal with it," but they didn't. Art has no rules; it can be changed, warped or improved to the creator's whims. It shouldn't matter whether the creator was swayed by negative feedback, or they just didn't feel it was to their satisfaction.

And one more note on the "bad precedent" bullshit, because it pissed me off that much; Fallout 3, Prince of Persia 2009, and Asura's Wrath all had DLC that changed the endings significantly. Where were you during that time, hmm? Were you shouting from the battlements prophecies of doom for all artistic endeavors? Were people lamenting the fact that *gasp!* companies were being held accountable to their fans?

 

[DioWallachia]

snip for great justice.

It's obvious you like the ending but what I don't get is why you keep perpetuating this anti-consumer screed. Yes, games are art. They are also a product, as I've said before. Movies are art, music is art, paintings are art, but the moment money changes hands, they are automatically classified as a product as well. When someone fucks a product up as badly as Bioware did with Mass Effect 3, customers are entitled (nyuck, nyuck!) to air their greivences with the company. Again, Bioware is under no obligation to bend to their fans desires, but the fact that they did, must indicate something about their collective confidence in their own art work. They could have easily said, "fuck off and deal with it," but they didn't. Art has no rules; it can be changed, warped or improved to the creator's whims. It shouldn't matter whether the creator was swayed by negative feedback, or they just didn't feel it was to their satisfaction.

And one more note on the "bad precedent" bullshit, because it pissed me off that much; Fallout 3, Prince of Persia 2009, and Asura's Wrath all had DLC that changed the endings significantly. Where were you during that time, hmm? Were you shouting from the battlements prophecies of doom for all artistic endeavors? Were people lamenting the fact that *gasp!* companies were being held accountable to their fans?

Asura DIDNT change the ending, it just had it for DLC all along like Final Fantasy XIII-2. They literaly sold the people an incomplete game.

In the other hand, movies have ALSO been subjected to Director's Cut and revisionism and they are still art. Even Roger "Games will never be art" Ebert didnt say anything about "The Brown Bunny" being NOT ART because some things were changed.

blip.tv/brows-held-high/brows-held-high-the-brown-bunny-5399912

 

[RobinHood]

The way I remember it the initial response to the ending was actually quite civil, there was a lot of constructive criticism explaining exactly why and where the endings went wrong, it was only when the gaming media got the wrong end of the stick and started flaming the fans then it all got a bit nasty.

Looking back I think Bioware handled it in the worst possible way, hiding in a shell in for a few months and refusing to talk about anything was probably what the PR manual said, but a lot of fans got frustrated at this, if they had come out and openly discussed and explained their decisions then I don't think they would have attracted so much hate.

Then came the Extended Cut which improved things a little, but by then I'd given up on the series, which was a huge shame, as I loved ME1 & 2. Haven't bought either of the DLC's, haven't even looked at them on YouTube.

 

[DioWallachia]

I still maintain, adamantly in fact, that the "Retake Mass Effect" movement WAS an act of entitlement. It has been said a billion times, but I will say it again. Bioware did not owe you anything. Yes, they said your choices would matter, and in the end they really didn't, but that doesn't change facts. Bioware, as a game company, does not owe you the time of goddamn day. You might hate them for it, but that's the truth.

And Bioware is not entitled to OUR money. They must ear it and failed.

And acording to Armadon Troisi and "The Agreement", the lead cinematic designer of ME2, its also the player story besides the the artist.

 

[DioWallachia]

Yeah, probably... but, so what? You may not like it, but that's how it works. The creator, at the end of the day, can do whatever the fuck they want with the thing that they're making. That's how it goes.

YEAH!! THAT IS THE SPIRIT!! because he can do whatever the fuck he want, that means he can also jump of a bridge and die. Because he can thanks to his integrity. It doesnt matter if this inconvenies him with that little overrated problem that we know as DEATH, he can even paint the monkey ears on the Mona Lisa and end up dying but GOD DAMMIT it was worth it!!!

...or was it??

Same here for ME3. They had a perfectly functional message/theme that could be described as "Unity despite difference" sort of like Lord Of The Rings in Space. How is the new "vision" in the last minute the best?? why that nonsensical circular logic of nothingness is a more theme more worthy of our attention? does it have ANY applicability?

 

[Frission]

And for this reason i ask to the artists of the world: What is the point of trying anymore? People no longer take seriously your efforts, your "Stanley Kubrikian" attention to detail, the visual storytelling, nothing. Your efforts are now completely meaningless since people its too dumb to notice the sheer difference between works. No point competing with other artist if your godlike efforts to move the medium foward with a movie the "The Fall", is going to be meet with the same standing ovation like the lazily designed "Transformer 2"

For great justice. There is such a thing as "bad art".

Yeah, probably... but, so what? You may not like it, but that's how it works. The creator, at the end of the day, can do whatever the fuck they want with the thing that they're making. That's how it goes.

The fans can also whine as much as they want. That's there right I guess.

Criticism is important in Art and unless you want to live in a hug box always crooning on how great everything you make is, you have to accept that. I don't know about those that wanted a new ending, but those who hated it didn't deserve to be called whiners for using basic analytical skill.

 

[DioWallachia]

And for this reason i ask to the artists of the world: What is the point of trying anymore? People no longer take seriously your efforts, your "Stanley Kubrikian" attention to detail, the visual storytelling, nothing. Your efforts are now completely meaningless since people its too dumb to notice the sheer difference between works. No point competing with other artist if your godlike efforts to move the medium foward with a movie the "The Fall", is going to be meet with the same standing ovation like the lazily designed "Transformer 2"

For great justice. There is such a thing as "bad art".

I doubht that in an Orwellian Dystopia that we are heading, the word "Justice" would even have the same meaning anymore (or that it even exist)

 

[Maze1125]

And Bioware is not entitled to OUR money. They must ear it and failed.

Er... No they didn't.
They made huge amounts on ME3, and retain a very large fan-base for ME4. Just because a minority have gotten so annoyed that they might never buy another ME game, doesn't mean that no-one will.

 

[Frission]

8 pages already.

Let me ask you something.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER?

Mass effect is a space power rangers dating sim gears of war game by now ANYWAY. Changing the ending WON'T CHANGE THAT.

Just give mass effect up already!

Huh. I just realized that I stopped even talking about Mass Effect. This thread has become now "the value of art and whether it's truly objective, game company PR and the gamer and game designer relationship"

Someone should really rename this thread.

 

[Frission]

And Bioware is not entitled to OUR money. They must ear it and failed.

Er... No they didn't.
They made huge amounts on ME3, and retain a very large fan-base for ME4. Just because a minority have gotten so annoyed that they might never buy another ME game, doesn't mean that no-one will.

This is actually becoming cyclical funny enough. A few pages ago there was a huge rant on how much this "minority" was. Was there a silent majority, if so why haven't they had an effect by now? The amount of polls, people who were just dissatisfied at the start, but grew angry due to treatment and yadiyadiyada.

The cycle continues.