Only 42% of Republicans believe that President Obama was born in the United States.
- Thread starter Kpt._Rob
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That 58% is not across ALL Republicans. There are a lot of variables which make that poll misleading. Republicans get bashed more in a personal manner. Usually without stats and facts. In my experience Liberals/Democrats who argue with Republicans usually use personal attacks rather than facts. Criticizing and attacking are two different things. Calls stupid is an attack, saying "I disagree" is criticizing.Cheeze_Pavilion said:
And in my experience, it's the other way around.Smokeydubbs said:
Let's face it, regardless of affiliation, political discourse in this country is fucked.
1 The reason some believe he's not an American citizen is because he refuses to release his birth information, he has no proof he was born herequiet_samurai said:
2: McCain may have been born out of the country but on an AMERICAN military base, it counts as American soil.
Now, I am a republican and don't care that barrack won't show his records, i care that after the whole 2 months he was in office he is already proving his taxes shit was a lie. CNN said he isn't doing good. CNN! They hate republicans and are now agreeing with them! Something is wrong here
Who's them? The courts not producing the document because the short form is plenty as far as the state department is concerned, not to mention the testimony of the state of Hawaii? I thought asking them was your job.KingPiccolOwned said:
Well yea, I personally think we need less politicians in politics and more economists and experts.
everyone is entitled to have their own opinion, but to say that your opinion is the one true one, even when evidence points to the contrary, that is fascism to some extent. It's like saying "Creationism is true, we must teach it in our government funded schools" even when every little bit of evidence ever found points to Creationism being false. Besides, as a wise man once believed, do not believe my theory like a dogma, especially if evidence points to the contrary. That wise man was Charles Darwin.
Because it would give credibility to the birthers. Nobody expects Obama to argue with moon landing conspiracies, and they are just as crazy as birthers.Maggotworm said:
When he gave the short form, more people belived he was not a natural born member of the US, giving these insane people more publicity is not a good thing.
Why not ask Mccain for his birth certificate? Maybe he wasn't born on the military base in Panama, why not ask him for his birth certificate? If you did I bet you wouldn't get it because people like Mccain and President Obama are not suppost to waste their time on crazy nut jobs.
I doubt the numbers about Republicans are correct, they have got to be smarter than that.
Right, you're going to trust a statistic from a book written by a man who said that his goal wasKpt._Rob said:
and a statistic from a comedian that has no backing. Do you see no flaw in this logic?Sam Harris said:
In addition, what about the Cold War? People thought that the bomb would be launched any day and send the world into MAD. Shit wasn't so bad then. The only difference between this and the MAD fear is that this is religion-based. Oh, wait. Wouldn't Christians back during the Cold War have thought that MAD would be the equivalent of rapture?
The Bible states that the world shall next be cleansed by fire. I think that people would have made the comparison between nukes and fire.
Your argument is fallacious. Every religious person believes that the world is horrible enough for Rapture to come. They have for thousands of years. That's just the way they work. We've been fine for thousands of years with people believing that. No irreparable harm has come from it; if anything, good has come from it.
To continue my example of the Cold War, a lot of traditional values were shattered during that time and shortly thereafter. The hippy era, beatniks, etc. changed the face of American culture for the better. This is not new. This is not an "intellectual crisis." If people want to believe that the end of the world is coming, fine.
I don't see people rioting in the streets screaming that the end is nigh. When I do, your argument will have some measure of validity.
Oh. By the way. How many Americans are actually members of a party? Not nearly so many as you might think. Guess how many Americans identify themselves as Republicans? Less than 25% (Source [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/parsing-the-polls/21-percent.html]). Therefore, roughly 12.5% of Americans believe this "Obama is not natural-born" nonsense. Not a big deal, seriously.
But all of your conservative friends are not a representative segment of the American population, here in Oklahoma conservatives who aren't birthers are in the minority. You can't assume that just because your conservative friends aren't stupid, don't mean that there aren't a lot of conservatives that aren't in other areas of the country, and in various levels of economic stratification.dodo1331 said:
Thw man is president already. If anyone did find proof that he wasn't American, what would happen if anyone did find proof he wasn't born in America? Would he be impeached? Doesn't Congress or the Senate have to decide that sort of thing? Is there some point to this or can he really be removed?
1) Opinion polling isn't perfect, granted, but it does usually provide good and consistent inicators across a population within a mean standard of deviation (that is, doing it again elsewhere will often yield similar results given a large enough base sample, which is the norm of any opinion poll)Smokeydubbs said:
2) Your opinion that Liberals too often bring opinions to the table instead of facts? I'll ignore the hypocracy of the statement.
3) And yes, Republicans, the party that doesn't believe in evolution ( http://www.gallup.com/poll/108226/republicans-democrats-differ-creationism.aspx ), and has only 6% of scientists ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/10/only-six-percent-of-scien_n_229382.html ). Yes, they are the stupid crazy party.
4) Plus when bringing up facts against conservatives there is always the backfire effect: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/backfire-effect
5) "I disagree" is fine when there is some legitimate dispute about an issue. "I disagree" with your opinions on abortion for example. But when someone comes out saying that the Earth is 6000 years old, or Obama is a muslim socialist from Kenya, or Jesus wants war in Iraq - then these people have it coming because THEY ARE STUPID. And they're the Republican base. The once respectable (even if you disagreed) party of fiscal responsibility and small government is dead - now they are the religious theocrat party of conspiracy theories and imperial ambitions.
PS: I'm not American, and if I were I'd be a Nader/Kucinich supporter, not an Obama supporter (but he's still better than dumbfuck Palin.)