Only 42% of Republicans believe that President Obama was born in the United States.

[Frank_Sinatra_]

Heh, of course they do. If you ask me, it's the whole black thing that inspires it. Did you know John McCain was born in Panama?

I'm sorry but I have to point this out. Although McCain was born in Panama he was born on US Sovereign territory, in said area it counts as US soil.

Disclaimer: I'm not defending or opposing either McCain or President Obama. [small]Hell I don't really care who is President right now anywho.[/small]

 

[dubious_wolf]

also anyone who quotes wikipedia in an post should really think about going to the REFERENCES!!! and provide the original link to the statistic posted by the company that researched said statistic, if it says [citation needed] it obviously is opinion. and if it isn't a certifiable webpage/site don't go throwing it on the thread, thats just proof of your own gullibility.

(also spell check)

 

[Tdc2182]

They're Republicans, what did you expect.

Well fuck, should I automatically believe that all Democrats are paragons of intellect?

yes, yes you should.

 

[Flying-Emu]

But you'll admit, the idea of a nuclear holocaust IS different from a genuine rapture, because a genuine rapture means that every person of faith is raptured away, needless to say, a Nuclear attack would have to be of proportions to pull this off, so massive they can not be imagined, and could not be accomplished with the amount of nuclear weapons in existence.

That aside, the point remains, that people believing the rapture will be coming is harmful, because it discourages people from taking care of the earth. If you accept that the earth is going to end anyways, then it would be rediculous to take care of it, that would be counterproductive. But we have no reason to believe that the earth will be ending, we need to take care of it for future generations, but we can't do that because we are blocked by people who believe that taking care of it isn't worth the effort.

No, no I will not. Nuclear Holocaust during the Cold War was a very real thing, and it very nearly happened [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis]. Do a little homework on MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) AND Rapture. Mutually Assured Destruction is the burning of the entire fucking earth, which we have enough nukes to do.

If you're talking about the Day of Reckoning in the Christian faith (which I'm assuming you are, considering that 76.1% of Americans identify themselves with Christianity), then not everyone of faith is "Raptured away." In fact, Rapture has nothing to do with salvation, after doing a bit of research. Rapture is the return of Jesus Christ.

Armageddon, however, is far from a pleasant experience. All of God's people will be gathered in the Holy City, where Satan, Gog and Magog will lay siege. God will reign fire from the heavens, destroy Gog and Magog, and cast Satan into Gehenna, the fiery lake. Hardly a pleasant time.

The whole point on not taking care of the earth... right. What? I may not represent the majority, but if SO many Christians think that it's not worth the effort to conserve the Earth, why has my church put thousands of dollars into conservation efforts in local parks and rainforst (Northwest USA region)? By your logic, around 50% of my Church shouldn't care enough to do anything about it. 50% of churches. And yet... there's SO many Christian Churches going around doing public service and cleanup activities!

Odd, isn't it?

and a statistic from a comedian that has no backing. Do you see no flaw in this logic?

Honestly, _Real Time with Bill Maher_ is some of the best political programming you'll find on TV right now.

Where's his source? I don't care if it's 5-star rated material that makes me orgasm upon hearing the opening theme. Until I see the actual report, it's unfounded material.

Aren't you the one who is always wailing on about sourcing posts?

 

[Smokeydubbs]

That 58% is not across ALL Republicans. There are a lot of variables which make that poll misleading. Republicans get bashed more in a personal manner. Usually without stats and facts. In my experience Liberals/Democrats who argue with Republicans usually use personal attacks rather than facts. Criticizing and attacking are two different things. Calls stupid is an attack, saying "I disagree" is criticizing.

1) Opinion polling isn't perfect, granted, but it does usually provide good and consistent inicators across a population within a mean standard of deviation (that is, doing it again elsewhere will often yield similar results given a large enough base sample, which is the norm of any opinion poll)
2) Your opinion that Liberals too often bring opinions to the table instead of facts? I'll ignore the hypocracy of the statement.
3) And yes, Republicans, the party that doesn't believe in evolution ( http://www.gallup.com/poll/108226/republicans-democrats-differ-creationism.aspx ), and has only 6% of scientists ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/10/only-six-percent-of-scien_n_229382.html ). Yes, they are the stupid crazy party.
4) Plus when bringing up facts against conservatives there is always the backfire effect: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/09/backfire-effect
5) "I disagree" is fine when there is some legitimate dispute about an issue. "I disagree" with your opinions on abortion for example. But when someone comes out saying that the Earth is 6000 years old, or Obama is a muslim socialist from Kenya, or Jesus wants war in Iraq - then these people have it coming because THEY ARE STUPID. And they're the Republican base. The once respectable (even if you disagreed) party of fiscal responsibility and small government is dead - now they are the religious theocrat party of conspiracy theories and imperial ambitions.

PS: I'm not American, and if I were I'd be a Nader/Kucinich supporter, not an Obama supporter (but he's still better than dumbfuck Palin.)

You generalized me hard. I'm a Conservative. I'm Agnostic, I argue that evolution is the only way. And why does everyone think all Republicans think Palin is the savior? She IS a dumb fuck and not a leader. The last REAL conservative left in our government is Newt Gingrich. He's a genius and I would vote for him in a heartbeat.

 

[Razorback0z]

Um... am I right in saying that there is now a group of people being refered to as "birthers" to describe those who beleive he was NOT born in the USA ?

Man.... this is bordering on the completely bizzarre isnt it ?

 

[Kpt._Rob]

But you'll admit, the idea of a nuclear holocaust IS different from a genuine rapture, because a genuine rapture means that every person of faith is raptured away, needless to say, a Nuclear attack would have to be of proportions to pull this off, so massive they can not be imagined, and could not be accomplished with the amount of nuclear weapons in existence.

That aside, the point remains, that people believing the rapture will be coming is harmful, because it discourages people from taking care of the earth. If you accept that the earth is going to end anyways, then it would be rediculous to take care of it, that would be counterproductive. But we have no reason to believe that the earth will be ending, we need to take care of it for future generations, but we can't do that because we are blocked by people who believe that taking care of it isn't worth the effort.

No, no I will not. Nuclear Holocaust during the Cold War was a very real thing, and it very nearly happened [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis]. Do a little homework on MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) AND Rapture. Mutually Assured Destruction is the burning of the entire fucking earth, which we have enough nukes to do.

If you're talking about the Day of Reckoning in the Christian faith (which I'm assuming you are, considering that 76.1% of Americans identify themselves with Christianity), then not everyone of faith is "Raptured away." In fact, Rapture has nothing to do with salvation, after doing a bit of research. Rapture is the return of Jesus Christ.

Armageddon, however, is far from a pleasant experience. All of God's people will be gathered in the Holy City, where Satan, Gog and Magog will lay siege. God will reign fire from the heavens, destroy Gog and Magog, and cast Satan into Gehenna, the fiery lake. Hardly a pleasant time.

The whole point on not taking care of the earth... right. What? I may not represent the majority, but if SO many Christians think that it's not worth the effort to conserve the Earth, why has my church put thousands of dollars into conservation efforts in local parks and rainforst (Northwest USA region)? By your logic, around 50% of my Church shouldn't care enough to do anything about it. 50% of churches. And yet... there's SO many Christian Churches going around doing public service and cleanup activities!

Odd, isn't it?

And I know churches where the people laugh at environmental protection and really do think it's a waste of time. Just like with the other thing, talking about YOUR church doesn't mean you're representing the entire Christian populace. And NO, 50% of your church wouldn't be like that, if it was then that would be unexpected based on what we know. Your church, I will assume, is full of religious moderates, who have gathered around a preacher who speaks a message that they relate to, and so we wouldn't expect to find people so dogmatically convinced of the rapture that they don't want to take care of it. While I also would expect that the majority of the attendants of the fundamentalist churches don't really care much for environmental well being. I have talked with these people, and know that they really do believe that caring for the earth is a waste of time.

But my point remains, that there is no empirical evidence to believe there will be a rapture or a day of reckoning, or a God there to give you a hug when you die. So when unfounded beliefs produce dangerous affects, like discouraging people to take care of the enviornment, then it is the responsibility of reasonable people to point out the pattern.

Just like how there is no empirical evidence that would lead one to believe all the things the birthers believe, but if their movement gains enough ground, it could do damage to our political system, and it ALREADY DOES do damage to the image that people around the world have of Americans. And as such it is the responsibility of reasonable people to point out the pattern, in hopes that leading people to be conscious of it will wake them up to the fact that something needs to be done.

 

[axia777]

This is all insanity. That is all I am going to say.

 

[Flying-Emu]

Then why did you bring up that he's a comedian?

Aren't you the one who is always wailing on about sourcing posts?

I'm also the one always wailing on about incoherency in one's criticism: if your problem is his source, then why are you bringing up the fact that he's a comedian?

I like your logic, how you completely ignored the important part in favour of attacking an offhanded comment that has little to nothing to do with the actual argument. However, I'll humor you.

I brought up that he's a comedian because comedians aren't what you would call known for presenting the most accurate facts. They're much more likely to skew the facts, leave out information, etc. to make the punchline. Make sense? It's an attack on the legitimacy of his argument.

Much like you're doing now.

Don't wail on about incoherency in criticism if you're not going to respond to the key portion of the criticism; the fact that he's being taken at face value without seeing an actual report. Maybe you should, for once, look at the actual argument put forth rather than the hidden meanings you seem to be finding.

*snip

Point conceded. Although I think we veered off our little tangent; I was questioning your logic in saying that there was an intellectual deficiency in America.

 

[joystickjunki3]

They're Republicans, what did you expect.

Well fuck, should I automatically believe that all Democrats are paragons of intellect?

yes, yes you should.

Oh, well then, my bad.

 

[TheMasterGL16]

lol, I honestly don't think that statistic is real... no I'm not republican, I LOVE Obama but I can't believe that THAT many Americans are THAT stupid... I mean, ok, a lot of them are retards who who spend their entire lives without a single independent thought.... but not 42% of a group that makes up roughly 45% of Americans....

Hmm.... on second thought, ok, ya I believe it sure I'll go with that, roughly 1/4th of Americans are retards.

Ok, lol.... good show, lol. And to all the people who think all Americans are retards. I'm an American, I'm smart... I've always been 90th percentile, and I'm saddened to admit you are absolutely correct, most Americans are retards, I can honestly say I still haven't the faintest idea how most of them manage to get up and get dressed every day on the first try.


P.S. to anyone who HONESTLY still believe he wasn't born in America... WHAT THE HELL GUYS!!!! You like, should know enough about your OWN DAMN nation to know you HAVE to be born here to be president.... WTF how did you make it this far without knowing that?!?!?!?

 

[HobbesMkii]

Meh, there are 72 million Democrats. There are 44 million Republicans. There are 300+ Americans, most of whom don't vote. If ~25 million people (who registered as Republicans) fail to believe our president is legitimate, so what? Pretty much everyone (who voted against him) thought that Bush's Presidency was illegitimate (because of all the people who voted in 2000, only the nine votes of the Supreme Court were counted), but that didn't stop him from serving two terms. The fact that the birthers are loud and crazy gives them more press coverage. They're not indicative of the party as a whole. America is, if it is in fact of any real political position, it's hard to tell, more leftist-centrist leaning, which the recent election has shown, and which a number of Republican strategists have suggested as well.

The fact is, people believe what they want to believe. Some people think that it's almost impossible to get someone to change their beliefs. Should you try? Yeah, probably, if only for the sake of attempting

Lastly, I'd like to note that FactCheck.org, which is nonpartisan, has looked at the original long-form birth certificate, photographed it, and confirmed it's legality, and existence. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html There are photos on the site, and they have the certificate number. But thanks to the magic of the internet, people who want to believe the less logical theories can much easier. Will FactCheck change their minds? No. Most of those people wouldn't believe it if you shoved the original in their hands. Frankly, they wouldn't know how to confirm that it was real.

 

[TheMasterGL16]

They're Republicans, what did you expect.

Well fuck, should I automatically believe that all Democrats are paragons of intellect?

yes, yes you should.

Oh, well then, my bad.

glad to see someone set you straight, lol....

ok, so most of us are just as stupid as you guys.... but DAMN IT!!! WE WON THE PRESIDENCY THIS TIME!!! lol.... and that makes everything better and makes all brilliant and beautiful people full of charisma and integrity.

 

[joystickjunki3]

They're Republicans, what did you expect.

Well fuck, should I automatically believe that all Democrats are paragons of intellect?

yes, yes you should.

Oh, well then, my bad.

glad to see someone set you straight, lol....

ok, so most of us are just as stupid as you guys.... but DAMN IT!!! WE WON THE PRESIDENCY THIS TIME!!! lol.... and that makes everything better and makes all brilliant and beautiful people full of charisma and integrity.

Oh, I'm not a Republican. I just didn't care for Obama, so I voted for the man I thought better suited my opinion (which is what I encourage everyone to do). I'd have voted Ted Nugent to be honest. The man's a bit crazy, but his music rocks and his policies aren't that unreasonable. He preaches about allowing hunting and legalizing drugs w/o actually promoting their use (bcuz he's all about personal choice since "this is America"). And I can dig that.