Batou667 said:
ObsidianJones said:
Batou667 said:
I'm honestly not sure if you're saying "Yeah, representation matters, not having it sucks" or "Audiences need to grow the hell up and learn to identify with protagonists who don't mirror them exactly"?
Both.
I feel bad borderline necro-ing a thread with no posts for a week but I also feel bad letting this go unanswered.
You realise those two statements I made before are kind of contradictory, right? Or at least, they can be used to argue AGAINST race-swapping just as easily as they can be used to argue the case for. To wit:
Representation is important for black and ethnic minority kids. It should logically follow that representation is important for white kids too.
It's not crucial for a character to exactly fit the same demographics of a white kid for them to be able to identify with them and enjoy the story. This should then apply to minority kids too, right?
I feel like the elephant in the room here is that everyone has decided that these considerations of principle, of what's good for the goose being good for the gander, of providing a level playing field - has all been discarded because "we" have decided that minority rights are more important. If it feels progressive or will please a historically marginalised group, then make the change, end of. Remarkably, I think Saelune gave one of the most honest contributions to this discussion: changing an established character is annoying, it messes with the canon, it upsets the fans, but it's gotta be done because White Man's Burden.
I'd rather nobody put hyperbolic words in my mouth about White Genocide or similar, but I will note the global population of people of European descent is a minority of about 20% of the planet. And the US is projected to be majority nonwhite by 2045. So, objections to erasing white characters from media may not be as ridiculous or unfounded as the detractors may suggest...
And just to reiterate one more time, I have no objection at all to increasing visible diversity through the creation of new IPs that focus on mixed or POC casts. That's both a predictable, and indeed desirable, outcome of living in a multicultural society that values its citizens of all backgrounds (for you, USA, for me, cosmopolitan Europe). But I'd like to see that achieved by increasing what's out there, not through blackwashing. I do hope people can see the distinction I'm making here, even if they may not agree with it.
*sighs* Fair. I feel bad having to answer something I moved on from, but here I am again.
You do also realize that those sentences can easily be used to prove the point of the Black Ariel
"Yeah, representation matters, not having it sucks"
Yes. It really does. It really sucks when you're an 7 year old boy and you write comic book stories with you as a hero, and then you change your race because you think only superheroes can be white. Because that's what the comic books at the time show you. Or, if you want to be a superhero that matters, you have to be white.
When you hear about a new game being developed and they talk about the character they are developing, and how they want to make someone that everyone can identify with and/or see themselves in... And once again it's another non-descript white male.
That sucks.
"Audiences need to grow the hell up and learn to identify with protagonists who don't mirror them exactly"
Yes, it really does. It's something we've been saying for a long time [http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/new-star-wars-the-force-awakens-trailer-sparks-racial-backlash-0], but the audience doesn't seem to get it. I mean, why do we have to cater to such a small part of the market [https://www.statista.com/statistics/232383/gender-split-of-us-computer-and-video-gamers/] anyway? If there were more, we would see more of them in games. And so far, the numbers bare that [https://www.wired.com/story/e3-2019-female-representation-videogames/] out.
Hey, for the last part of that skit, the biggest column is Choose Your Own Identity sort of thing, but the amount of stories that are presented from a uniquely female point of view is 4 percent of all upcoming games. There is Five times more stories told from an uniquely male stand point, and Sweet Zombie Jesus, there's 6.6 percent of games that are N/A. There are more games told from a non-gendered/human view than there are for a female perspective.
And I'm not following that it 'should apply for minority kids'. It's always applied for minority kids. I would be shocked if you somehow unearthed this mass of minority kid protagonists that gave anywhere enough representation to justify a calming down of the push for diversity. In fact, I invite you to do that. Enough with the thought exercises. Let's get some action, right? Let's both find enough minority representation where we won't have twenty million black panthers and Shuris each year because that's all the black kids got. Or all of the Asians. Who could be Wong from Dr Strange, Collen Wing from Iron Fist, or maybe Michelle Yoeh's character from Guardians of the Galaxy.
You conflate "having some representation" as "more important". That's for you to sort out. Not for us to try to teach you differently. Black Ariel has nothing really to do with saying white people aren't important. It's troubling that you think that way, but I assure you that you're apart of a small minority that thinks that way. I will not be thinking white people's views mean less to me than it did before because a mythical creature had a melanin change. I don't think Disney's 1989 Ariel ceases to exist. What I actually think is that there's room for both to exist.
And that's really the end of it. I don't think Ariel should be black for all of time. I will not feel anything if the next version of her is white. Nor asian. Nor latina. Nor green.
Like, how many people are truly pissed that Odin wasn't played by a Swedish/Norwegian guy, but a Welshman. We don't talk about representation there. Because the pigmentation for the God was correct.
Black Ariel does not erode Redhead Ariel. Redhead Ariel will not erode Green Ariel coming in 2045. There's room for all. That's the line for me.
