#operationmoe/PSA; anime isn't supposed to be realistic
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To be fair, there's only ever been about 1 or 2 anime every season at best that was truly different. We can't always get a Serial Experiments Lain or Now and Then, Here and There :\Fox12 said:
It's probably safe to say that things have reached equilibrium. The 90s and early 2000's were an unprecedented time in terms of quality. Satoshi Kon, ABe, Oshii, Watanabe, Ghibli, and Anno were all at the peak of their careers. Now most of them have died or retired.crimson5pheonix said:
You can't complain too much, though, when Hideaki Anno and Makoto Shinkai have both just released new films, and Mamoru Hosoda released one not too long ago.
But now we have some other fresh names like Urobuchi and ONE as well as more novel adaptations like RE:Zero and From the New World. You can find plenty of quality anime if you just look. The only thing that's really changed is that we have greater access to anime in general, which includes the common grist.Fox12 said:
ONE isn't an animator sure he makes some quality stuff but not really an animator as for Urobuchi he hasn't really done much after Psycho pass and I don't really see Re Zero as the next Evangelion or even Here and there then and nowcrimson5pheonix said:
I read the article a few times, and I gotta say, it brings up some very cogent points; especially, how almost insidiously moe anime is marketed. However, the debate over moe and fanservice killing the anime/manga industry has raged for nigh on a decade or more now, and while personally, I don't believe their killing the industry (more like an abusive hospice worker smothering it with a pillow while it sleeps) I do think it severely limits whatever female character progression and impact knowing that they are primarily and meticulously crafted for the dual purpose of instilling feelings of protection or forbidden lust in male viewers AND selling cheaply made, yet expensive as hell, merchandise to lonely nerds with too much (but not really) income.
The talk about masculinity in relation to anime though has piqued my interest. I mean, I hardly see any articles about misandry, masculinity, and how men are portrayed in anime. I don't mean that tired, bullshit excuse that assholes use claming that men are "equally" portrayed as overly brave and heroic or drawn with unrealistic body proportions, like that equation some how justifies and excuses women being dumb, overly dependent, bags of fuck meat who's sole purpose is to be coddled and/or thrown on the protagonist as his reward for a job well done, or by the sheer gall of existing.
I mean that [adult] men are mostly portrayed as perpetual teenagers, either forced to take responsibility at the behest of incompetent authority figures or society and treating even the most severe and important tasks, not with comprehension or reluctance, but with disdain and contempt like it's all a chore or some other annoyance. Like they got better shit to do during the end of the world. And their relationships with the opposite sex, even family members, even outside of shonen ecchi and harem anime, makes it seem that men, not necessarily the protagonist sometimes, are all rapists and sex offenders just waiting for the opportunity and looking for an excuse.
#notallanimebros and lets get on with this.
Back in the day, calling guys perverts were mostly false accusations made by women to add conflict and difficulty to the protagonists life, they were used as development for both characters. It made you sympathize with the guy and hope he gets retribution against his tormentor, while the girl is shown to over-assertive and protective and have SOME kind of deep-seeded issues. Now, a dude can just rummage through a girls panty drawer, peek in her bathroom or changing room, or just record or photo her (actual stalking) and it's either played for laughs or just whisked away claiming "it's a natural part of growing up, boys gonna be boys". I mean, fucking what!? Unrealistic interpretations aside here, you're trying too hard to sell these abhorrent, sometimes unrepentant, ass goblins as DECENT FOLK just being as nature intended them to be, and you want me to accept that and treat them as heroes or something?
Overall, I see this topic as another in a long list of them about the opinions of the anime industry. It has it's audience, it hast it's detractors, but at the very least I hope we can agree that things like marketing and fetishizing off the popularity of the moe fad is at the minimum kind of fucked up.
The talk about masculinity in relation to anime though has piqued my interest. I mean, I hardly see any articles about misandry, masculinity, and how men are portrayed in anime. I don't mean that tired, bullshit excuse that assholes use claming that men are "equally" portrayed as overly brave and heroic or drawn with unrealistic body proportions, like that equation some how justifies and excuses women being dumb, overly dependent, bags of fuck meat who's sole purpose is to be coddled and/or thrown on the protagonist as his reward for a job well done, or by the sheer gall of existing.
I mean that [adult] men are mostly portrayed as perpetual teenagers, either forced to take responsibility at the behest of incompetent authority figures or society and treating even the most severe and important tasks, not with comprehension or reluctance, but with disdain and contempt like it's all a chore or some other annoyance. Like they got better shit to do during the end of the world. And their relationships with the opposite sex, even family members, even outside of shonen ecchi and harem anime, makes it seem that men, not necessarily the protagonist sometimes, are all rapists and sex offenders just waiting for the opportunity and looking for an excuse.
#notallanimebros and lets get on with this.
Back in the day, calling guys perverts were mostly false accusations made by women to add conflict and difficulty to the protagonists life, they were used as development for both characters. It made you sympathize with the guy and hope he gets retribution against his tormentor, while the girl is shown to over-assertive and protective and have SOME kind of deep-seeded issues. Now, a dude can just rummage through a girls panty drawer, peek in her bathroom or changing room, or just record or photo her (actual stalking) and it's either played for laughs or just whisked away claiming "it's a natural part of growing up, boys gonna be boys". I mean, fucking what!? Unrealistic interpretations aside here, you're trying too hard to sell these abhorrent, sometimes unrepentant, ass goblins as DECENT FOLK just being as nature intended them to be, and you want me to accept that and treat them as heroes or something?
Overall, I see this topic as another in a long list of them about the opinions of the anime industry. It has it's audience, it hast it's detractors, but at the very least I hope we can agree that things like marketing and fetishizing off the popularity of the moe fad is at the minimum kind of fucked up.
Good animation is good, but that's down to the animation houses, I'm interested in story writers. I do see RE:Zero as approaching NGE even if it doesn't go as far down the crazy as NGE did (though that's less of Anno being a genius and more of Anno being borderline suicidal at the time). Neither approaches Here and There, but that's just because it's in that exclusive club of being based on real war crimes along with Grave of the Fireflies.PapaGreg096 said:
I think the appeal of Rei is that she barely has any emotions. She is closer to an AI gaining sentience and asking basic questions pertaining to human nature than anything typically moe. And sure, people can fantasize about things other than moe. Truth be told, I really do like chars like that, ones like the AI in Zone of the Enders or Aigis in Persona 3. I am not sure if it is Rei's fault they were made, maybe it was Hayashibara Megumi and that god tier voice, either way I am thankful.Ezekiel said:
Never thought of her as a mother figure though, and I kinda wish it stayed that way lol.
I feel that we don't get more of those because Japan already has issues with suicide.crimson5pheonix said:
What? It's just Dark Sun meets the Rwanda Genocide! Fun for the whole family!Here Comes Tomorrow said:
I'm getting quite tired of moe, but also of goku-style tenacious male protagonists. Overall i think anime in general could do with breaking from the traditional character archetypes a bit more
I would prefer less moe too. It's a bit much atm. But well, trends ... . At least kundere seems to be less prevalent nowadays.
That article overuses the word "however." Also, to be honest this article comes off as "Stop liking what I don't want you to like!" I dunno, maybe I'm tired.
Anime was a mistake.
That said, even though I hate how pervasive the whole "moe" thing is (it's come to the point where I can barely enjoy any anime), I do appreciate that it exists. I draw cute anime girls, I find them to be therapeutic sometimes and I can't say no to a bit of K-On! or YuruYuri. What I can't stand is when it's combined with more "serious" genres than slice-of-life because I just can't take them seriously. You have disgusting monsters, epic philosophical dilemmas and... cute little girls with bright hair and adorable outfits. Uh no thank you. That's essentially like ordering a fancy dinner and pouring sugar on it, or putting barbecue sauce on a chocolate cake.
That said, even though I hate how pervasive the whole "moe" thing is (it's come to the point where I can barely enjoy any anime), I do appreciate that it exists. I draw cute anime girls, I find them to be therapeutic sometimes and I can't say no to a bit of K-On! or YuruYuri. What I can't stand is when it's combined with more "serious" genres than slice-of-life because I just can't take them seriously. You have disgusting monsters, epic philosophical dilemmas and... cute little girls with bright hair and adorable outfits. Uh no thank you. That's essentially like ordering a fancy dinner and pouring sugar on it, or putting barbecue sauce on a chocolate cake.
It can work, even though rare, and when it does it's all that better off for it. Gakkou Gurashi is a prime example.Dizchu said:
Who are you to dictate what anime is "supposed" to be? It's not a genre, it's a style of animation. It can be whatever.Dreiko said:
I don't necessarily agree with what she's saying, although I think overly moe characters are incredibly annoying and subservience is boring. But her argument isn't wrong, there are a lot of characters like that and I've yet to meet a woman who can relate to a blob of saccharine cliches. The thing is, she didn't say that there shouldn't be moe characters, just that she wants more character that she can relate to, which is fine. You're the only trying to say anime has to be like this or that.
I did no such thing. Saying that anime chars are not supposed to be realistic doesn't mean I said they're supposed to be unrealistic. There's a third option, one you touched upon. It means just that anime chars aren't supposed to be neither realistic nor unrealistic nor anything else.Azure23 said:
So yeah, I agree with you, hence, expecting them to be relatable through being realistic when as we both can see anime chars can't be expected to be anything and have to be tackled on an individual basis, is wrong. Her mistake is acting as though anime chars are to be expected to be relatable through being realistic, merely because she'd wish it to be the case, and that it not occuring is somehow wrong. No, it still isn't wrong or problematic, because anime isn't supposed to be like anything, despite peoples tastes or opinions.
The existence of moe doesn't negate the existence of relatable chars in any case, as different individuals make different works. Prop up the works you want more of if you wish them to flourish. Tearing down moe with negativity won't create more of whatever other thing you like but don't actually specify.