Our generation's racism

[StBishop]

Saying it is one thing, acting on it is another. I just found this: http://patriotupdate.com/19679/pope-denounces-gay-lobby-in-speech-to-us-bishops

so a bit contradictory to say the least. I suppose tolerance is different than acceptance, but when he does stuff like this it doesnt seem very tolerant to me.

I haven t been able to find the one article I was thinking about, I think it was Jamie Dimon of citigroup that wrote to the new york times how Jesus loved the rich and everything he said was only meant as a metaphor, it was laughable, I wish I could find it. However there are many many instances of Mega Church pastors like Pat robertson defending wall street and the big banks, case in point:

Wow, the US is messed up hey. I tend to avoid US media when possible; not the entertainment media, but the tabloid press and other mainstream media. So I don't even really follow what's going on in the clip.

I mean what is the 700 club? What are The Young Turks? Is this guy like a Christian version of Dr. Phil.


Also: "It's atavistic."

Atavistic:
at·a·vis·tic/ˌatəˈvistik/
Adjective:
Relating to or characterized by reversion to something ancient or ancestral: "atavistic fears and instincts".

Occupy wall street is characterised by hearkening to the "good ol' days" when this guy was young? Perhaps further?

No.

Sorry I just had to have a quick whinge at that dude's misuse of a word I'm rather fond of.

 

[StBishop]

Ugh, hating religions is vulgar.

I can understand the intellectual distaste for organised religion, it is reasonable. But hating a person for what they believe is simply boorish.

Hating religions =/= hating the person.

Personally I believe it's completely reasonable for anyone to hate a belief system that preaches a primitive, barbaric, hate filled, anti-intellectual doctrine. (aka the Abrahamic religions)

Did you just say "blacks"? Really? Not "black people" or something slightly less inflammatory? On a thread discussing being racist?

Ok then. Maybe that's my hang up.

Christ on a stick could you be any more PC?

The term "blacks" is not racist.

Hey, welcome to the Escapist. (I realise you signed up a long time ago, but it's your first post and all.)

Don't go in the basement.

Back on topic; I sort of covered both of those, but I'll go over them again.

First, I don't appreciate people who hate one religion but not a similar one which is more familiar. For example, hating Islam, but being fine with other religions with similar tenets; say for example, Christianity.
They're pretty much apples and pears. The difference is in the details and I don't like that.

However, as I stated in previous posts, if someone is intellectually and morally opposed all religions, that's not a problem for me. My issue is more people who will hate all Christians because of the actions of the Westborough Baptist Church or similar.

I do realise that there's always exceptions and due to the loose definition of religion the KKK are technically included in this, I'm not saying you can't be opposed to poor or evil practices. My problem is, as I've said, more with either ignorant, or hateful opposition of specific religions.

And with the "blacks" thing, it basically boiled down to me being a little too touchy because of my experience with the way people use that term (literally only used with negative connotations up until this conversation) and the other poster not even thinking about it because they don't find it inherently offensive.

 

[StBishop]

Youngturks is an entirely independent news organization, which in my opinion makes it one of the only legitimate news organizations out there. It baffles me that people can look at fox news owned by megacorp in The devil incarnate Rupert murdoch and say "yeah! I trust that!" sadly millions do.

Pat robertson is a swindler of epic proportion, he fools gullibles (of which there are plenty here in the us) to give him money for cover "humanitarian" purposes, and then just uses it for his own gain. Like cenk says in the vid, he conned people into funding his helicoptors for aid in haiti, then turned around and started using them in his diamond mining operations in africa. Just one example of this.

Do they have mega chruches in england? Think of pat as a televangelist

Yeah Murdoch owns a channel over here and it has the worst fearmongering shows in the country on it. It also happens to be the channel which airs Top Gear unfortunately.

I'm in Australia by the way. British parents, and therefore a British Citizen, but no I live in Australia.

We don't have mega churches here to my knowledge and I don't know of any televangelists but I've seen youtube clips and such.

Our TV is quite toned down compared to the US and Japan (as is Indonesia and the UK's). I've not seen much TV from anywhere else to compare to.

 

[GistoftheFist]

I'm offensive and I find this thread GistoftheFist.

 

[Ickorus]

so many people now a days are racist against racists... it's sad

Can't tell if sarcasm or understated opinion about fighting hate with hate...

why can't it be both?

It can, but the sarcasm sort of implies that you don't believe in your own opinion. Anyway I agree, treating people like pariahs based on things they think of others regardless of how terrible it is takes us back to square one.

What is the alternative? Should minorities everywhere have to prove that theyre not worthless inferior beings simply because a large population of whites seem to have it ingrained in their close minded little brains that they are superior?

Should they dance and sing and do a little jig and wave banners saying "Please don't hate us Racists! Pleaaaaase?"

No, simply being a normal well meaning human being in your everyday life constantly will slowly prove people's own beliefs wrong.

Tell that to Martin LK and Malcolm X. If it werent for the very serious threat of a full scale insurrection of minorities, the gov't would have done jack squat and we would still be going to separate schools, drinking form separate fountains, and shitting in separate bowls

Martin Luther King & Malcolm X got us past the hardest part, they forced people to listen and forced a change in perception. We have the easy job now of just reinforcing the fact that skin colour is meaningless which is done in the way 'him over there' stated, be yourself and prove the idiotic notion that being a certain skin tone makes you superior is stupid.

I disagree with the entire don't hate on racists bit though, they need to be shunned in order to continue reinforcing that there is no place for racism (Or sexism, or any other isms) in this modern society.

Liquidacid23 has the right of it though, don't be racist against someone because they're racist. (Call them a fucking idiot instead)

 

[TheVioletBandit]

Ugh, hating religions is vulgar.

I can understand the intellectual distaste for organised religion, it is reasonable. But hating a person for what they believe is simply boorish.

Well said, I applaud this statement. I see the anti-theists as nothing more than another hate group, and simply repugnant.

 

[Kanova]

Acting as though if you are from this generation everyone should be okay with everything. But it isn't like that. For example I feel very uncomfortable around gays and people who get their dick cut off and take hormones. And if there is one there is a lot more. But everyone on the Escapist are moral elitist bitches so I am probably the only one here with such a viewpoint. PUNISHMENT INC

 

[StBishop]

Maybe stop hating is more the vibe that was intended.

I personally think Islam is great, but you know, what ever.

Because a religion that spreads bigotry, homophobia, supported pedophelia, has little to no womens rights, racism and violence is something that people will stop hating/disliking? Not really. Not unless there are some huge fundamental changes within Islam and with the muslims themselves. Maybe they'll get out of the dark ages in the future who knows.

The religion does no such thing.

I think it's a little rich to assume that all Muslims are the same, and are all in the dark ages while complaining about bigotry.

I know a number of Muslims personally and I find them to be caring, respectful, regular people. Islam is not the problem here, extremism is.

Try getting a hold of a Qur'an translation some time. It's not full of hatred. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[StBishop]

Hey, welcome to the Escapist. (I realise you signed up a long time ago, but it's your first post and all.)

Don't go in the basement.

Thank you.

No problem

Back on topic; I sort of covered both of those, but I'll go over them again.

First, I don't appreciate people who hate one religion but not a similar one which is more familiar. For example, hating Islam, but being fine with other religions with similar tenets; say for example, Christianity.
They're pretty much apples and pears. The difference is in the details and I don't like that.

Oh I see.

So say someone hated both Islam and Christianity based on the tenets perpetuated in both their holy texts, you'd have no problem with that. But if they hate one (e.g Islam) but support the other you'd dislike that.

Yes?

Yes, but that's a little watered down, I used those as examples. If someone were against any religion that they considered to be of negative impact (not the faith in said religion, the organisation or structure of the religion) then I can respect that.
I might disagree or argue, but I can respect it.

However, as I stated in previous posts, if someone is intellectually and morally opposed all religions, that's not a problem for me. My issue is more people who will hate all Christians because of the actions of the Westborough Baptist Church or similar.

Well that's completely reasonable.

Thank you, I thought so.

And with the "blacks" thing, it basically boiled down to me being a little too touchy because of my experience with the way people use that term (literally only used with negative connotations up until this conversation) and the other poster not even thinking about it because they don't find it inherently offensive.

I'm going to take a stab and say it's because it's not offensive. My evidence being the guy who was ignorant of it being 'offensive' was black.

As I said, I was being a delicate snow flake.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

Ugh, hating religions is vulgar.

I can understand the intellectual distaste for organised religion, it is reasonable. But hating a person for what they believe is simply boorish.

The hated of Islam bugs me, probably more than hatred of any of other religon. I'm not the most open-minded bloke around, by any stretch. My general "religion is stupid" stance attests to that, but it seems to me that most hatred of Islam stems from a basic lack of understanding about it. Most of the BS that gets spouted whenever someone decries it as an evil religion of hatred is either wrong, misunderstood or taken out of context.

Like the oft-quoted Koran passage about killing the non-believers. People cite that as evidence of Islam being violent, forgetting that in context that passage is referring to the siege of Mecca, where fighting is (or was) forbidden. The thing about "killing non-believers" is actually just more of Allah clarifying "well you can, if they attack you first. But still, best not to" kind of situation.

 

[StBishop]

Acting as though if you are from this generation everyone should be okay with everything. But it isn't like that.

No of course, I realise that in any generation there are people who fit on the entire range from being a member of a group to being opposed to a group with every fibre of their being.

For example I feel very uncomfortable around gays and people who get their dick cut off and take hormones. And if there is one there is a lot more. But everyone on the Escapist are moral elitist bitches so I am probably the only one here with such a viewpoint. PUNISHMENT INC

I actually assumed as such. The assumption that transphobia will be to our generation, what racism is to the current oldies is based entirely on the fact that I think most of our generation will openly transphobic.

I can't say I envy your position of homophobia as a member of this community, it's not exactly the most forgiving of homophobia, pretty progressive in general really.

 

[TheVioletBandit]

Ugh, hating religions is vulgar.

I can understand the intellectual distaste for organised religion, it is reasonable. But hating a person for what they believe is simply boorish.

Is it wrong for gay people to hate christians?

Yes, as there are diverse belief structures within Christianity, and not all of them are opposed to homosexuality. In fact, there are even openly homosexual ministers, and what ever the female variant of that word is....ministressess? Anyway, I for one don't even consider those people that hold up the G-d hates homosexuals signs to even be Christians, but that's just personal opinion. Also, if gay people make sweeping generalizations about the beliefs of all Christians, and hate them because of the stereotypes they have applied to them, are the gay people that do this not simply bigots as well?

 

[Woodsey]

[...] minorities like homosexuals and blacks, [...]

Did you just say "blacks"? Really? Not "black people" or something slightly less inflammatory? On a thread discussing being racist?

Oh shit, sorry, I forgot. "Black people", I mean. Ironically, I'm black myself.

But would any of you have been offended if I said "whites"?

Ignoring the fact that "whites" wasn't ever a derogatory term. Yeah.
Not offended, just shocked that you'd use an out dated term.

EDIT: I realise that I'm overly touchy about racism, I grew up in the country and people there were not only much, much more racist than city folk, but they genuinely believed that there was no such thing as racism any more.

... That would seem to be an Aussie thing. Never seen anyone take issue with 'blacks' before.

has always been incredibly fond of Islam, which almost puts him ahead of our time).

Now what is that meant to mean?

Some people aren't.

Some people are anti-theist in general and Islam has gotten a bad rap in pop culture and media since about (oh at a rough guess) 12th September 2001 onward.

Yes, but is he saying that we will grow to love Islam in the future? It's worded like that but I don't want to look like I'm putting words in his mouth.

Just means he's not inclined to believe every Muslim wants to blow him up. Which is a pretty big advance over most people these days.[/quote]

OT: I dunno, maybe Buddhists will start getting it in the neck. In all honesty, I hope there's a push against religion. Obviously not in the sense of religious persecution that we've seen in the past (and are seeing to a degree now), but I'd hope that our generation's "racism" is in fact an intellectual fight back.

 

[Ickorus]

so many people now a days are racist against racists... it's sad

Can't tell if sarcasm or understated opinion about fighting hate with hate...

why can't it be both?

It can, but the sarcasm sort of implies that you don't believe in your own opinion. Anyway I agree, treating people like pariahs based on things they think of others regardless of how terrible it is takes us back to square one.

What is the alternative? Should minorities everywhere have to prove that theyre not worthless inferior beings simply because a large population of whites seem to have it ingrained in their close minded little brains that they are superior?

Should they dance and sing and do a little jig and wave banners saying "Please don't hate us Racists! Pleaaaaase?"

No, simply being a normal well meaning human being in your everyday life constantly will slowly prove people's own beliefs wrong.

Tell that to Martin LK and Malcolm X. If it werent for the very serious threat of a full scale insurrection of minorities, the gov't would have done jack squat and we would still be going to separate schools, drinking form separate fountains, and shitting in separate bowls

Martin Luther King & Malcolm X got us past the hardest part, they forced people to listen and forced a change in perception. We have the easy job now of just reinforcing the fact that skin colour is meaningless which is done in the way 'him over there' stated, be yourself and prove the idiotic notion that being a certain skin tone makes you superior is stupid.

I disagree with the entire don't hate on racists bit though, they need to be shunned in order to continue reinforcing that there is no place for racism (Or sexism, or any other isms) in this modern society.

Liquidacid23 has the right of it though, don't be racist against someone because they're racist. (Call them a fucking idiot instead)

You're absolutely right about calling racists out for what they are, they need to be kept in check, they need to repress that shit for the rest of their lives if need be.

I disagree with when you said that malcolm x and mlk had the hard part, imo that was the easy part. The racism was so obvious back then, today racists are less overt and much more subtle in their racism which makes it A LOT harder to fight.

I don't think it really needs to be fought any more, these people know racism isn't acceptable in society anymore and like you said, they aren't obvious in the prejudices anymore which means that as time goes by they're forced to give more and more ground until one day they're forced to treat other races as truly equal, then it's a simple matter of waiting because their children will be raised in a world that is fair and equal and soon enough it will be considered odd that anyone ever thought one race was superior to another.

We're kinda just stuck in the middle, we're not going to see a world without racism and prejudice but we need to help bring it in for future generations to enjoy.

I may just be being overly optimistic though, I did read the post you made to me in the other thread and we come from very different places, where you live racism seems to still be rather open but where I am it's very much frowned upon.