Over seventy dead in vehicular attack in Nice, France

[Gorrath]

The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.

You seriously think that would help?

"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."

Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.

What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takes

Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.

Huh.

I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.

 

[Parasondox]

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Can you measure that objectively? How do you determine a superior ideology? How did you come to this conclusion?

We support gender equality and separation of church and state. They support treating women like cattle and barbaric savage practices. It's easy to see who's better

Have you met other religions before? I must ask. I am pretty sure they do similar things.

 

[Leg End]

We support gender equality and separation of church and state. They support treating women like cattle and barbaric savage practices. It's easy to see who's better

This depends heavily on personal views and is in no way objective. It's sad but it's true.
You're really just saying in the other post "if you don't like my specific ideal under Democracy, you don't get Democracy". You're anti-Democracy if it doesn't suit your beliefs.

Hey, a house is on fire. Lets use more fire to combat the flam... oh, that made things worse and it's spreading to other homes.

Whoops.

We'll rule the ash!

 

[Zhukov]

I say we are much better than they are.

Oh, but of course you do.

And yet, you sound exactly like a Daesh spokesman. You just advocated killing people for their religious/political beliefs. That's the kind of thing I'm used to hearing on the news from the mouth of a swarthy man with a beard standing in a desert holding a Kalashnikov in front of a black flag.

 

[Madmatty]

The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.

You seriously think that would help?

"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."

Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.

What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takes

Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.

Huh.

I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it. Plus France belongs to the French and if immigrants don't like the way France does things they should get out

 

[Leg End]

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it.

By that exact reasoning, you are not permitted to voice your beliefs as they condone Exile and Genocide. Such are violations of human rights.

I assume this applies to every religion and ideology? Christians? Nazis? Manifest Destiny?

 

[Zhukov]

Yes exactly because our society and theirs JUST DONT MIX! Plain and simple if you support an undemocratic ideology get out

Except... you support an undemocratic ideology. An ideology that apparently includes killing people of different religious and political beliefs rather than debating and, y'know, voting on it. Not very democratic.

I guess you'll be going then?

I hear Syria is nice this time of year.

 

[Madmatty]

We support gender equality and separation of church and state. They support treating women like cattle and barbaric savage practices. It's easy to see who's better

This depends heavily on personal views and is in no way objective. It's sad but it's true.
You're really just saying in the other post "if you don't like my specific ideal under Democracy, you don't get

We support gender equality and separation of church and state. They support treating women like cattle and barbaric savage practices. It's easy to see who's better

This depends heavily on personal views and is in no way objective. It's sad but it's true.
You're really just saying in the other post "if you don't like my specific ideal under Democracy, you don't get Democracy.

yes if you don't like a secular system you don't deserve democracy sharia supporters don't deserve democracy because with them democracy doesn't work.

 

[Madmatty]

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it.

By that exact reasoning, you are not permitted to voice your beliefs as they condone Exile and Genocide. Such are violations of human rights.

I assume this applies to every religion and ideology? Christians? Nazis? Manifest Destiny?

Some rights are more important than others and gender equality and separation of church and state should be preserved no matter what we have to do

 

[Leg End]

yes if you don't like a secular system you don't deserve democracy

...Why not?

sharia supporters don't deserve democracy because with them democracy doesn't work.

Neither does it in your scenario, if you need to deport people who vote opposite of you.

You're really just making an argument against democracy. What's digging at me is that you're defeating your own argument. Are you truly for democracy?

 

[Madmatty]

Yes exactly because our society and theirs JUST DONT MIX! Plain and simple if you support an undemocratic ideology get out

Except... you support an undemocratic ideology. An ideology that apparently includes killing people of different religious and political beliefs rather than debating and, y'know, voting on it. Not very democratic.

I guess you'll be going then?

I hear Syria is nice this time of year.

If the majority of people what sharia supporters deported then that should be so. What I support is democracy with some limits like supporting things that could undermine gender equality and separation of church and state.

 

[Leg End]

Some rights are more important than others

It's that reasoning as to why we're having rights slowly chipped away. Freedom is universally important.

and gender equality and separation of church and state should be preserved no matter what we have to do

Absolutely no matter what? Because I have a feeling you're going to regret opening that particular can of worms.

 

[Madmatty]

yes if you don't like a secular system you don't deserve democracy

...Why not?

sharia supporters don't deserve democracy because with them democracy doesn't work.

Neither does it in your scenario, if you need to deport people who vote opposite of you.

You're really just making an argument against democracy. What's digging at me is that you're defeating your own argument. Are you truly for democracy?

Yes I am for democracy but there should be limits on what you can and can't support. Gender equality and separation of church and state must ALWAYS be preserved and in that case some exceptions to democracy can be put in place.

 

[Leg End]

If the majority of people what sharia supporters deported then that should be so.

What if the majority are Sharia supporters? You still haven't answered this. Or rather, you have very clearly.

What I support is democracy with some limits like supporting things that could undermine gender equality and separation of church and state.

You support your personal idea of democracy. You should just say you're not actually for democracy or that you're for it under specific conditions.

Not really democracy though if you can just arbitrarily exclude people you deem unworthy, is it?

 

[Gorrath]

The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.

You seriously think that would help?

"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."

Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.

What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takes

Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.

Huh.

I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it. Plus France belongs to the French and if immigrants don't like the way France does things they should get out

Shiria is an ideology that is intolerant of other ideologies. By adopting an ideology that is intolerant of people who support Shiria, you are adopting the same intolerance toward ideology present in Shiria. You are supporting the punishment of thought crime, which is also part of Shiria ideology. So yes, you are indeed becoming more like Sharia by criminalizing Shiria.

The problem with your second sentence is , who decides what ideologies undermine basic human rights? If people decide that medicine is a basic human right and you argue that it should remain a for profit business venture, they can then argue that you support an ideology that undermines basic human rights and deport you. Do you not see how such broad platitudes can be used to oppress differing opinions? I can give you ten examples off the top of my head how this will bite us in the ass.

The idea that if you don't like the way something is done in a democratic country, you should get out, undermines the whole damned point of democracy. If you are a citizen of a democratic nation, you should use the democratic system to attempt to change things you think are wrong, not just pack your shit and leave. That's how dictatorships are run, not democracies.

 

[Madmatty]

Some rights are more important than others

It's that reasoning as to why we're having rights slowly chipped away. Freedom is universally important.

and gender equality and separation of church and state should be preserved no matter what we have to do

Absolutely no matter what? Because I have a feeling you're going to regret opening that particular can of worms.

Why do you say that I will regret opening this can of worms? Also I clearly stated before that Muslims who hate sharia law can stay. In fact I want to recruit them to the cause

 

[Leg End]

Yes I am for democracy but there should be limits on what you can and can't support.

So you're anti-Free Speech?

 

[Madmatty]

The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.

You seriously think that would help?

"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."

Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.

What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takes

Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.

Huh.

I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it. Plus France belongs to the French and if immigrants don't like the way France does things they should get out

Shiria is an ideology that is intolerant of other ideologies. By adopting an ideology that is intolerant of people who support Shiria, you are adopting the same intolerance toward ideology present in Shiria. You are supporting the punishment of thought crime, which is also part of Shiria ideology. So yes, you are indeed becoming more like Sharia by criminalizing Shiria.

The problem with your second sentence is , who decides what ideologies undermine basic human rights? If people decide that medicine is a basic human right and you argue that it should remain a for profit business venture, they can then argue that you support an ideology that undermines basic human rights and deport you. Do you not see how such broad platitudes can be used to oppress differing opinions? I can give you ten examples off the top of my head how this will bite us in the ass.

The idea that if you don't like the way something is done in a democratic country, you should get out, undermines the whole damned point of democracy. If you are a citizen of a democratic nation, you should use the democratic system to attempt to change things you think are wrong, not just pack your shit and leave. That's how dictatorships are run, not democracies.

If that's the way all democracy's are then I don't want to live in a democracy because it appears democracy in this case DOESNT WORK

 

[Leg End]

Why do you say that I will regret opening this can of worms?

Because you're defeating your own argument.

Also I clearly stated before that Muslims who hate sharia law can stay. In fact I want to recruit them to the cause

Will they wear yellow stars too?