Over seventy dead in vehicular attack in Nice, France

[Madmatty]

The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.

You seriously think that would help?

"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."

Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.

What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takes

Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.

Huh.

I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it. Plus France belongs to the French and if immigrants don't like the way France does things they should get out

Shiria is an ideology that is intolerant of other ideologies. By adopting an ideology that is intolerant of people who support Shiria, you are adopting the same intolerance toward ideology present in Shiria. You are supporting the punishment of thought crime, which is also part of Shiria ideology. So yes, you are indeed becoming more like Sharia by criminalizing Shiria.

The problem with your second sentence is , who decides what ideologies undermine basic human rights? If people decide that medicine is a basic human right and you argue that it should remain a for profit business venture, they can then argue that you support an ideology that undermines basic human rights and deport you. Do you not see how such broad platitudes can be used to oppress differing opinions? I can give you ten examples off the top of my head how this will bite us in the ass.

The idea that if you don't like the way something is done in a democratic country, you should get out, undermines the whole damned point of democracy. If you are a citizen of a democratic nation, you should use the democratic system to attempt to change things you think are wrong, not just pack your shit and leave. That's how dictatorships are run, not democracies.

You should understand that the ends justify the means in this case also it seems you're brand of democracy is failing as we speak

 

[Gorrath]

The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.

You seriously think that would help?

"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."

Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.

What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takes

Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.

Huh.

I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it. Plus France belongs to the French and if immigrants don't like the way France does things they should get out

Shiria is an ideology that is intolerant of other ideologies. By adopting an ideology that is intolerant of people who support Shiria, you are adopting the same intolerance toward ideology present in Shiria. You are supporting the punishment of thought crime, which is also part of Shiria ideology. So yes, you are indeed becoming more like Sharia by criminalizing Shiria.

The problem with your second sentence is , who decides what ideologies undermine basic human rights? If people decide that medicine is a basic human right and you argue that it should remain a for profit business venture, they can then argue that you support an ideology that undermines basic human rights and deport you. Do you not see how such broad platitudes can be used to oppress differing opinions? I can give you ten examples off the top of my head how this will bite us in the ass.

The idea that if you don't like the way something is done in a democratic country, you should get out, undermines the whole damned point of democracy. If you are a citizen of a democratic nation, you should use the democratic system to attempt to change things you think are wrong, not just pack your shit and leave. That's how dictatorships are run, not democracies.

If that's the way all democracy's are then I don't want to live in a democracy because it appears democracy in this case DOESNT WORK

Indeed it seems you don't want to live in a democracy, you want to live under an authoritarian regime that agrees with your personal beliefs and values, which is exactly what the people who support Shiria Law want, they just have different values than you. And there's the rub, you have more in common with those you claim are incompatible with democracy than you realize.

Edited to respond to your addition:

You should understand that the ends justify the means in this case also it seems you're brand of democracy is failing as we speak

It's not my brand of democracy, it's just democracy. Democracy will have failed when we stop being a democracy where the will of the people is the law of the land and is replaced by an authoritarian government. In other words, what you propose.

 

[Madmatty]

Why do you say that I will regret opening this can of worms?

Because you're defeating your own argument.

Also I clearly stated before that Muslims who hate sharia law can stay. In fact I want to recruit them to the cause

Will they wear yellow stars too?

No if they hate sharia law and don't hate Jews and believe in gender equality. They will be treated the same as anyone else

 

[Madmatty]

The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.

You seriously think that would help?

"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."

Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.

What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takes

Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.

Huh.

I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it. Plus France belongs to the French and if immigrants don't like the way France does things they should get out

Shiria is an ideology that is intolerant of other ideologies. By adopting an ideology that is intolerant of people who support Shiria, you are adopting the same intolerance toward ideology present in Shiria. You are supporting the punishment of thought crime, which is also part of Shiria ideology. So yes, you are indeed becoming more like Sharia by criminalizing Shiria.

The problem with your second sentence is , who decides what ideologies undermine basic human rights? If people decide that medicine is a basic human right and you argue that it should remain a for profit business venture, they can then argue that you support an ideology that undermines basic human rights and deport you. Do you not see how such broad platitudes can be used to oppress differing opinions? I can give you ten examples off the top of my head how this will bite us in the ass.

The idea that if you don't like the way something is done in a democratic country, you should get out, undermines the whole damned point of democracy. If you are a citizen of a democratic nation, you should use the democratic system to attempt to change things you think are wrong, not just pack your shit and leave. That's how dictatorships are run, not democracies.

If that's the way all democracy's are then I don't want to live in a democracy because it appears democracy in this case DOESNT WORK

Indeed it seems you don't want to live in a democracy, you want to live under an authoritarian regime that agrees with your personal beliefs and values, which is exactly what the people who support Shiria Law want, they just have different values than you. And there's the rub, you have more in common with those you claim are incompatible with democracy than you realize.

It's all about the values if certain values like gender equality and separation of church and state can be challenged then no I don't want to live in a society like that

 

[shrekfan246]

Oh, is Islamophobia and white nationalism totally okay around here now?

 

[Leg End]

If that's the way all democracy's are then I don't want to live in a democracy because it appears democracy in this case DOESNT WORK

So, what do you desire as a replacement system?

Opted not to use? He started out by firing the gun into the crowd.

At what point? Do you have a solid source on the events? I keep getting conflicting reports.

You should understand that the ends justify the means in this case also it seems you're brand of democracy is failing as we speak

You're not the first to say it, and you won't be the last.

The question is, what is the Utopia you're selling?

 

[Madmatty]

If that's the way all democracy's are then I don't want to live in a democracy because it appears democracy in this case DOESNT WORK

So, what do you desire as a replacement system?

Opted not to use? He started out by firing the gun into the crowd.

At what point? Do you have a solid source on the events? I keep getting conflicting reports.

You should understand that the ends justify the means in this case also it seems you're brand of democracy is failing as we speak

You're not the first to say it, and you won't be the last.

The question is, what is the Utopia you're selling?

I'm not selling a utopia because utopia is buttfucking impossible. I just want gender equality and separation of church and state to be immutable laws that cannot be changed

 

[Leg End]

No if they hate sharia law and don't hate Jews and believe in gender equality. They will be treated the same as anyone else

What if they hate Sharia but also hate Jews?

Oh, is Islamophobia and white nationalism totally okay around here now?

#natsoclivesmatter

 

[Gorrath]

The way I see it, Islam should be treated as a political movement across the spectrum and lose the privileges of freedom of religion in western countries.

You seriously think that would help?

"Hey, see that group who have an issue with radicalized youth committing terrorist acts? Yeah, I say we massively piss them off! Actively persecute them! That'll calm them right down."

Brilliance, sheer brilliance. I'm dazzled.

What else would you have us do? I say kill or deport anyone who supports sharia law and close the borders to them. Do whatever it takes

Soooo... kill people for their political beliefs.

Huh.

I'm sorry, who are the good guys here again?

Us their political beliefs are INCOMPATIBLE with our way of life I say we're bad people for not deporting them or shooting them. We stand for a better ideology then they do.

Part of the reason we stand for a better ideology is because we stand for freedom of thought, word and belief. Deporting dissenters undermines the very core values you and I know to be superior. You can't beat an ideology you don't like by becoming that ideology. You can't fight intolerance with intolerance. People can be Nazi's, bigots, racists and spout all around horrible ideas. Our job isn't to deport them but to debate them, to show just why their ideas are shameful and backward. Western civilization is built on the fair contest of ideas not the excision of ideology we don't like.

It's not becoming that ideology. There should be limits on what you can and can't support an ideology like sharia law undermines basic human rights. So you should not be allowed to support it. Plus France belongs to the French and if immigrants don't like the way France does things they should get out

Shiria is an ideology that is intolerant of other ideologies. By adopting an ideology that is intolerant of people who support Shiria, you are adopting the same intolerance toward ideology present in Shiria. You are supporting the punishment of thought crime, which is also part of Shiria ideology. So yes, you are indeed becoming more like Sharia by criminalizing Shiria.

The problem with your second sentence is , who decides what ideologies undermine basic human rights? If people decide that medicine is a basic human right and you argue that it should remain a for profit business venture, they can then argue that you support an ideology that undermines basic human rights and deport you. Do you not see how such broad platitudes can be used to oppress differing opinions? I can give you ten examples off the top of my head how this will bite us in the ass.

The idea that if you don't like the way something is done in a democratic country, you should get out, undermines the whole damned point of democracy. If you are a citizen of a democratic nation, you should use the democratic system to attempt to change things you think are wrong, not just pack your shit and leave. That's how dictatorships are run, not democracies.

If that's the way all democracy's are then I don't want to live in a democracy because it appears democracy in this case DOESNT WORK

Indeed it seems you don't want to live in a democracy, you want to live under an authoritarian regime that agrees with your personal beliefs and values, which is exactly what the people who support Shiria Law want, they just have different values than you. And there's the rub, you have more in common with those you claim are incompatible with democracy than you realize.

It's all about the values if certain values like gender equality and separation of church and state can be challenged then no I don't want to live in a society like that

Then it sounds to me like you're the one that should leave, since challenging ideas is precisely what leads to the evolution of our thinking and understanding. I don't actually want people with differing ideas to go because I do want to be challenged. I don't agree with almost anything in Shiria Law but one of the biggest things I object to in it is the way it doesn't allow for ideas it deems "dangerous" to itself. What you propose is the exact same mechanism and it's an abhorrent mechanism. No matter who employs it, and no matter their promises that it will only be used for good, it is a mechanism that punishes thought.

 

[Leg End]

I'm not selling a utopia because utopia is buttfucking impossible. I just want gender equality and separation of church and state to be immutable laws that cannot be changed

Unless The People decide to change them, right? I mean we all support Egalitarian values, but there is no such thing as a law that cannot be changed, or a Government removed.

You're just roughly wanting a society that places emphasis on Freedom and Equality(under the law) in its very core, right down to its holiest of documents.

You're pretty much describing the US. We just don't stop people from staying stupid shit because we value Freedom of Expression as well. We'll totally disagree with what you say but defend to the death your right to be an asshole and say Hitler did nothing wrong.

 

[Madmatty]

Will they wear yellow stars too?

No if they hate sharia law and don't hate Jews and believe in gender equality. They will be treated the same as anyone else

So, let's examine how that would go. Consider that you are now in charge of upholding that law in France. How will you figure out who has the beliefs that you describe here? Would you send out questionaire's? Monitor their facebook? Do police interviews? Another method?

Anyone found openly supporting sharia law would be exiled to Syria. Pro sharia groups would be disbanded and deported. And the sharia law no go zones would be disbanded too. The borders would be closed and the Mediterranean would be a demilitarized zone.

 

[Leg End]

Wait, where has anyone mentioned any form of white nationalism?

People seem to use the phrase without actually knowing what it means. A catch-all term these days, if you will.

 

[Gorrath]

Wait, where has anyone mentioned any form of white nationalism?

People seem to use the phrase without actually knowing what it means. A catch-all term these days, if you will.

Along with "Islamaphobia." I get accused of that all the time for criticizing Islamic beliefs. Funny thing is, no one accuses me of "Christianphobia" for doing the same to Christianity. Me thinks the game is rigged.

 

[Leg End]

Is that like the way mgtow and pua are conflated even though being practically diametrically opposite ends?

Yeah, pretty much.

This just makes me want to get around to watching The Princess Bride.

 

[Madmatty]

I'm not selling a utopia because utopia is buttfucking impossible. I just want gender equality and separation of church and state to be immutable laws that cannot be changed

Unless The People decide to change them, right? I mean we all support Egalitarian values, but there is no such thing as a law that cannot be changed, or a Government removed.

You're just roughly wanting a society that places emphasis on Freedom and Equality in its very core, right down to its holiest of documents.

You're pretty much describing the US. We just don't stop people from staying stupid shit because we value Freedom of Expression as well. We'll totally disagree with what you say but defend to the death your right to be an asshole and say Hitler did nothing wrong.

If you try to push for sharia law in any way you would be exiled to Syria. Also I never said hitler did nothing wrong I equate Islamists with hitler in fact. Sharia law is a new form of evil that the people of Europe have to fight. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

 

[Gorrath]

Wait, where has anyone mentioned any form of white nationalism?

People seem to use the phrase without actually knowing what it means. A catch-all term these days, if you will.

Is that like the way mgtow and pua are conflated even though being practically diametrically opposite ends?

I know that feeling all too well. I am neither a PUA or MGTOW but boy do I ever see them and MRA, MRM and people who are none of those things all grouped up like they share the same ideology. You can outright say you hate MRA, think it's a stupid movement and denounce its core concepts and people will accuse you of being an MRA (ala RoK.)

 

[Leg End]

Along with "Islamaphobia." I get accused of that all the time for criticizing Islamic beliefs. Funny thing is, no one accuses me of "Christianphobia" for doing the same to Christianity. Me thinks the game is rigged.

That's why you gotta rig that shit right back!

If you try to push for sharia law in any way you would be exiled to Syria.

Have fun dealing with Syria about sending them your exiled.

Also I never said hitler did nothing wrong I equate Islamists with hitler in fact.

I never said you did. I used it as an example.

Sharia law is a new form of evil that the people of Europe have to fight. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

New form? I hope you mean recent threat because then I could let that slide but Sharia is faaarrrr older than you're thinking.