Over seventy dead in vehicular attack in Nice, France

[Madmatty]

Is it me, or 2016 seems to be the year of this kind of terrorist attack? Why is it?

Terrorist attacks in the west have been steadily rising for the last 5 years or so.

Globalization is the problem at least in my opinion it's a bad thing because terrorist groups exploit it also another good argument against globalization is simply plague.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Welp, terrorism has done it, it's gotten me down. This happened right before a big, yearly party week here in my city of Ghent. Aka big crowds in a medieval city so tons of little nooks and streets and whathaveyou. When I went last year at one point the crowd was so thick I could move an inch a minute.

But now? Yeah getting trapped in a crowd like that would make me nervous alright. The city council is talking extra security measures but I'm not sure they could do all that much considering the nature of this event. I was already not really feeling it but this only gives me more of a push towards not going.

And that's exactly the kind of atmosphere terrorism want to create. Bah.

The driver was Tunisian

Addendum; Tunisian-French. Lest we forget he was also a French national before we get the inevitable "MUH IMMIGRASHUN!" cries.

 

[Parasondox]

Another tragic event at the hands of fools who value hate, fear and division among everyone. No, we shouldn't let any of that win and stop us from living our lives. Hate, fear and separation should NEVER win.

Added bit, I support debates that are healthy and reasonable and not let it get rotten by heated and flaming petty attitudes.

The best solution would be to close the borders and deport anyone openly supporting sharia law. Otherwise there's gonna be civil war and eventually WW3. This world is getting gradually worse as time goes by

Don't forget to put a "/sarcasm" tag at the end of that or people might assume you are being serious there.

 

[Parasondox]

Is it me, or 2016 seems to be the year of this kind of terrorist attack? Why is it?

Terrorist attacks in the west have been steadily rising for the last 5 years or so.

Globalization is the problem at least in my opinion it's a bad thing because terrorist groups exploit it also another good argument against globalization is simply plague.

Once again, "/sarcasm" tag. Unless you are serious, which I'll just... *sigh*

 

[Bobular]

I would hate to be French right now, it just seams like attack after attack is hitting France and nothing worthwhile seems to be being done to stop it as more attacks keep coming.

I have some family that have been planning to move to France for a while now so I'm going to ask them if these attacks are changing their minds.

My question is why is it France that keeps getting hit? England should be a bit more protected with the channel and not being a member of the Schengen Area, but Germany hasn't been hit the same way and I would have thought if ISIS are coming in with the refugees then Italy or Greece would have been hit by a lot of attacks.

 

[Parasondox]

Once again, "/sarcasm" tag. Unless you are serious, which I'll just... *sigh*

You have to understand that not everybody has the same opinion as you about everything.

Yet, I fully understand that and understood that since I was a wee lad. Over 7 billion different opinions and thoughts.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Once again, "/sarcasm" tag. Unless you are serious, which I'll just... *sigh*

You have to understand that not everybody has the same opinion as you about everything.

That doesn't make what he said any less dumb. Deporting people who think things? Blaming globalization? Come now.

My question is why is it France that keeps getting hit?

I think for that you have to go back decades. France has a rather 'special' relationship with Northern Africa/countries with large Muslim populations. This is, in short, 60 years of shitting on minorities coming home to roost.

It's why being so afraid of Syrian refugees is so silly. Think about it; as ISIS, why bother with all the effort of sending out soldiers that you desperately need in your local war when there's large populations of disenfranchised youth in the countries you want to attack that only need a little poking through some swanky internet propaganda?

 

[Souplex]

My response to every horrible headline is now: *Hears about newest tragedy* *Sighs* Damn it humanity.

My question is why is it France that keeps getting hit? England should be a bit more protected with the channel and not being a member of the Schengen Area, but Germany hasn't been hit the same way and I would have thought if ISIS are coming in with the refugees then Italy or Greece would have been hit by a lot of attacks.

I think it's less about what's a strategically sound target, and more what's a hated target. France is currently one of the more Islamaphobic countries and does things like try and ban head-scarves which breeds animosity. They're also seen as the most decadent/sinful of Europe by outsiders. They're the biggest world power among Mediterranean nations.

 

[Cowabungaa]

France is currently one of the more Islamaphobic countries and does things like try and ban head-scarves which breeds animosity.

Well, about the headscarves thing; France doesn't allow religious symbols in certain things period. Whether that's a Jewish kippah, a Christian cross necklace or an Islamic hijab it doesn't matter. France has a history of wanting to keep religion very much in the private sphere. And yes, that does clash with certain interpretation of the Islam which breeds animosity. But that's not islamophobic.

That said, there is a strong islamophobic undercurrent within French society, as there is throughout most of Europe these days. And that's definitely not helping at all.

And a little sidenote, France doesn't really count as a Mediterranean power. It's definitely Atlantic.

 

[Megalodon]

After the kid was gone, we had a conversation with the police officer. He said that the kid was wrong to pursue jihad this way. "It isn't time for jihad in europe until all muslims are united".

OK, that is actually far scarier and more worrying than any number of brainwashed kids going to die in some desert hell hole. This is a police officer, one of the people who's supposed to uphold the law and protect the public, and he thinks the kid is only wrong because of the method? Not 'aggressive expansion of religion and conflict with non-believers is wrong' but 'It's just not time yet because our side hasn't got its shit together'? Would this guy count as one of the 'good', 'moderate' Muslims? Because that thought process it just as vile to me as any Isis barbarian.

 

[Bobular]

I've had a run in with muslim extremism and a 15 year old kid that was considering going to fight in syria. He also had non-muslim friends and he felt torn between the two worlds. He came to my friend in confidence to talk about this. Some of his friends had already gone to fight. Some had already died, and he didn't want to follow that, but he also felt like he had no other choice. He wasn't able to discuss this with parents; they had forbidden him to go and forbidden him to discuss it again (as such the social work of de-radicalization fell on other's shoulders).

We were obligated by law to report it, but that would most likely mean the police coming to his house. My friend/colleague was unsure what to do, which is how I became part of it. Eventually, my friend and I fought hard for him to be allowed to visit the police instead. There was a muslim police officer who talked with him. At its core the kid felt guilty for not being able to do all the requirements of islam, mainly the 5 prayers per day. The officer was able to convince him that you do what you can and that's good enough. He directed him to other imam's.

After the kid was gone, we had a conversation with the police officer. He said that the kid was wrong to pursue jihad this way. "It isn't time for jihad in europe until all muslims are united".

The experience definitely changed my outlook on islam. I've been reading a lot about it, as well as reading from the quran and the hadiths.

It has left me with the impression that more islam will lead to more attacks. It may be that france has the most attacks because it has the highest percentage of muslims of western european countries.

I'm actually worried about some of the people I used to know in regards to terrorism. The collage I went to had over 50% of its student population being Muslims and this was just after we invaded Afghanistan, just before/during the Iraq war so we would quite often discuss things to do with Islam in classes. I remember one day the topic was turned from computer architecture to sharia law, and the Muslims in the class said that they don't understand why Briton doesn't just impose sharia law as most people in Briton are Muslim anyway.

They seemed to think that because the area they grew up in was entirely Muslim and the schools they attended were mostly Muslim that they were the majority and were being ruled by a minority of none Muslims.

That is the main problem causing these home grown terrorists, they are staying in their own little bubble rather that integrating with the rest of the country. I now work with a few Muslims and they seem to be very well integrated into society whilst still keeping their culture and religion and I think this is down to them interacting with the general public more and generally being from an older generation.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

People doing bad stuff...I don't like the ambivalent numbness that comes with this type of news. Did anyone give a shit about this attack when it occurred?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/02/middleeast/baghdad-car-bombs/

I noticed hardly anybody mentioned it anywhere at the time. I guess not important enough, right? Why? The numbers are higher, you like numbers, don't you? Well they're higher there.

 

[ErrrorWayz]

I think it's less about what's a strategically sound target, and more what's a hated target. France is currently one of the more Islamaphobic countries and does things like try and ban head-scarves which breeds animosity. They're also seen as the most decadent/sinful of Europe by outsiders. They're the biggest world power among Mediterranean nations.

I think it's not fair to claim things like islamophobia when even cartoonists of charlie hepdo are killed for lampooning cartoons, something they did to all religions.


Also, they don't have a ban on headscarves, they have a ban on complete facial coverings, such as balaclava, niqab and burqa. You can still wear the hijab (although some people want to ban the hijab in universities).

This makes sense too, because previously terror suspects have gone into mosques as men and then left dressed as a woman in a burqa.

Yep, this - France is (extremely sensibly) legally secular within public spaces and not granting Islam special privileges because it's adherents really, really, really believe extra hard does not constitute "Islamophobia". Although it has now calmed down, the policy of appeasement in the UK caused no end of trouble - during the height of the politically correct era here (Blair's leadership) there was a genuine attempt to allow veils in court, with the BBC, as ever the high priest of politically correct appeasement, wheeling out "expert" after "expert" to try to claim you didn't need to see someone's face to allow a jury to judge reactions.

To my mind, religion is a personal choice and should not be allowed to affect or influence the public sphere in anyway.

 

[The Ditz]

Times like this, I just look on the bright side: giant space rocks could hit us at any moment and we could do nothing to stop it. Global temperature and population are on the rise. The sun will eventually die.

Terrorists can't terrorize dust in the wind!

 

[Parasondox]

People doing bad stuff...I don't like the ambivalent numbness that comes with this type of news. Did anyone give a shit about this attack when it occurred?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/02/middleeast/baghdad-car-bombs/

I noticed hardly anybody mentioned it anywhere at the time. I guess not important enough, right? Why? The numbers are higher, you like numbers, don't you? Well they're higher there.

Look at Yemen. Whats happening in Yemen you may ask?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/12176705/Saudi-Arabia-is-bombing-in-Yemen-to-bring-peace-and-stability.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/17/saudi-arabia-scale-back-yemen-attacks-sanaa-airstrikes-toll-houthi-market-rises

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/saudi-arabia-row-ban-ki-moon-new-low-un-relationship

The news only shows what it needs in order to strike it's own agenda and ratings. Show the bad, hides the worse.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

People doing bad stuff...I don't like the ambivalent numbness that comes with this type of news. Did anyone give a shit about this attack when it occurred?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/02/middleeast/baghdad-car-bombs/

I noticed hardly anybody mentioned it anywhere at the time. I guess not important enough, right? Why? The numbers are higher, you like numbers, don't you? Well they're higher there.

Look at Yemen. Whats happening in Yemen you may ask?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/12176705/Saudi-Arabia-is-bombing-in-Yemen-to-bring-peace-and-stability.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/17/saudi-arabia-scale-back-yemen-attacks-sanaa-airstrikes-toll-houthi-market-rises

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/saudi-arabia-row-ban-ki-moon-new-low-un-relationship

The news only shows what it needs in order to strike it's own agenda and ratings. Show the bad, hides the worse.

Also the worse is done by our own weapons through heightened sales the last year...god forbid the people know what fucked up relations we have with Saudi, they may start doubting their nationalist pride. We can't allow that now, can we?

 

[Cowabungaa]

People doing bad stuff...I don't like the ambivalent numbness that comes with this type of news. Did anyone give a shit about this attack when it occurred?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/02/middleeast/baghdad-car-bombs/

I noticed hardly anybody mentioned it anywhere at the time. I guess not important enough, right? Why? The numbers are higher, you like numbers, don't you? Well they're higher there.

The news only shows what it needs in order to strike it's own agenda and ratings. Show the bad, hides the worse.

Really? Both the Yemen stuff and the Baghdad attack were frontpage stuff here and I follow like seven news apps. There's no hiding going on.

As for caring, well you'll probably find that everyone in the world cares a little more about the respective region where they live in. Not that there isn't a problem with news agency oligopolies, mind you.

To my mind, religion is a personal choice and should not be allowed to affect or influence the public sphere in anyway.

I found this [http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/06/islam-politics-exceptional/485801/] to be a really interesting article on why that's possibly problematic for Islam as such in Western countries.