Overrated and over-hated

[Elvis Starburst]

Snip

Guess I missed a lot more than I thought! Though, despite all the above, in the first game she seemed to have Solid Snake syndrome of repeating the last thing she heard. I'll have to maybe look into the game/her a little more down the line and see the nuances I overlooked.
Speaking of overhated, and semi relevant... I'm gonna put forward The 3rd Birthday. Besides the story being rather nonsense, I liked the gameplay, the visuals, the music especially, and just the game as a whole. I thought it was quite fun. Though, I can understand fans being pissed about the game, considering how long they wanted a proper Parasite Eve and got... that instead. But as someone with no real attachment to past PE titles, I found it pretty enjoyable

 

[BrawlMan]

Guess I missed a lot more than I thought! Though, despite all the above, in the first game she seemed to have Solid Snake syndrome of repeating the last thing she heard. I'll have to maybe look into the game/her a little more down the line and see the nuances I overlooked.
Speaking of overhated, and semi relevant... I'm gonna put forward The 3rd Birthday. Besides the story being rather nonsense, I liked the gameplay, the visuals, the music especially, and just the game as a whole. I thought it was quite fun. Though, I can understand fans being pissed about the game, considering how long they wanted a proper Parasite Eve and got... that instead. But as someone with no real attachment to past PE titles, I found it pretty enjoyable

The 3rd Birthday is a decent/unique 3rd person shooter for the PSP, but the story and characters ruin everything for longtime fans whom had to wait for so long and got.....THAT! It shouldn't have been a P.E. game, and Square should have considered either a non-canon spin-off or divorced installment entirely. I heavily prefer the second option.

Yes, you did miss out on a lot.

Parasite Eve is one of those games begging for a remake.

​

 

[BrawlMan]

@Old_Hunter_77, I am not sure if you remember, but the original Dead Space was over hated for a while. It was mainly a vocal minority, but it didn't stop them from shutting up about it. Yahtzee being the most vocal about it at the time. Even he realized how much of a dick was being about it in his review of DSR. Though he whined in a different direction claiming that the remake was "too easy" with its 0 gravity section. No one cares.

I did notice that people hating on the game at the time, were either butt-hurt System Shock 2 fans, complaining that "it's just System Shock 2 in third person!", or how dare they copy Resident Evil 4 (that was mainly Yahtzee though). And I would ask: "That's bad thing becaussseeee?...." They usually wouldn't respond with anything other than a whatever, "We already have Bioshock!", or nothing at all.

The irony is that Dead Space was supposed to be System Shock 3, but neither EA nor Visceral Games could get the rights. Thus, a new title had to be made. I give credit for EA at least trying a different and new franchise when they still somewhat cared. There is even more irony to what DS was originally supposed to be, now with the remake being even more like System Shock 2 now.

 

[thebobmaster]

@Old_Hunter_77, I am not sure if you remember, but the original Dead Space was over hated for a while. It was mainly a vocal minority, but it didn't stop them from shutting up about it. Yahtzee being the most vocal about it at the time. Even he realized how much of a dick was being about it in his review of DSR. Though he whined in a different direction claiming that the remake was "too easy" with its 0 gravity section. No one cares.

I did notice that people hating on the game at the time, were either butt-hurt System Shock 2 fans, or complaining that "it's just System Shock 2 in third person!". And I would ask: "That's bad thing becaussseeee?...." They usually wouldn't respond with anything other than a whatever, "We already have Bioshock!", or nothing at all.

The irony is that Dead Space was supposed to be System Shock 3, but neither EA nor Visceral Games could get the rights. Thus, a new title had to be made. I give credit for EA at least trying a different and new franchise when they still somewhat cared. There is even more irony to what DS was originally supposed to be, now with the remake being even more like System Shock 2 now.

There's also bit of irony there in that EA is one of the major parties responsible for there being a System Shock 2 in the first place.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

@Old_Hunter_77, I am not sure if you remember, but the original Dead Space was over hated for a while. ...

I don't remember 'cause horror games ain't my thing (I tried the remake for a bit but I just can't deal with the darkness).
*checks wiki* so the original came out in 2008.. I was mostly still in extended gaming recess at this time and certainly not following games media. I think around this time or shortly thereafter is when I got a PS3 and dove back into gaming with action games so I didn't even learn about Dead Space until years later, by which time probably the sequels were out and the original was venerated.
But learning is why I'm here so that's cool. And I agree with
> And I would ask: "That's bad thing becaussseeee?...."

One of the dumbest but most common ways to criticize something is to say a reductive description. "Super Mario Bros is just jumping and running and getting to the end of the level."

 

[BrawlMan]

I don't remember 'cause horror games ain't my thing (I tried the remake for a bit but I just can't deal with the darkness).

If you thought the darkness was bad there, the darkness in RE2 remake and some of RE4 remake are much worse. Here's a hint: put either of those two games at 75% brightness and your good. Make sure your flat screen is set to Game mode too, if it has that option. Most TVs have that nowadays, but I know some flat screens are still older models that don't have that feature.

One of the dumbest but most common ways to criticize something is to say a reductive description. "Super Mario Bros is just jumping and running and getting to the end of the level."

The same wanna be smart asses that say all you do in brawlers, "is button mash, punch, kick, and jump mindlessly!". The fact that certain people on the journalist side and certain individuals on YouTube still carry this mindset, shows how ignorant and idiotic they truly are, and don't pay attention. Most brawlers; especially today and from the 2010s, are not the mindless button mashers, they think, every brawler was from the 90s.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

The same wanna be smart asses that say all you do in brawlers, "is button mash, punch, kick, and jump mindlessly!". The fact that certain people on a journalist side and certain individuals on YouTube still carry his mindset, shows how ignoring an idiotic they truly are, and don't pay attention. Most brawlers; especially today and from the 2010s, are not the mindless button mashers, they think, every brawler was from the 90s.

Recommend me some good brawler(s) I can get on a PS5. I know it's your favorite genre and I liked them back in the day and since I'm in the mood for some video-game-ass-video-games, I could check some out.
Most recent or closest things I played was that TMNT Shredder's Revenge one that was a hit, though I found it kinda boring, too easy, or maybe I just played it that way just getting through the campaign. I dunno if Sifu counts but I found that too hard because of the roguelike. Oh, yeah- no roguelikes for me, nuh-uh.
I was definitely into Final Fight and Double Dragon back in the day, but the originals, but I'm not interested in direct nostalgia (like I'm sure there have been sequels and remakes and tributes but I don't care about any of that). I'd be more interested in newer stuff that evokes that same spirit but modernizes controls and graphics. And I'm exclusively playing on PS5 these days.

Some good weekend style chit-chat as my whole work day schedule got blown up so I'm thinkin' 'bout games games games....

 

[BrawlMan]

Recommend me some good brawler(s) I can get on a PS5. I know it's your favorite genre and I liked them back in the day and since I'm in the mood for some video-game-ass-video-games, I could check some out.
Most recent or closest things I played was that TMNT Shredder's Revenge one that was a hit, though I found it kinda boring, too easy, or maybe I just played it that way just getting through the campaign.

It was a bit on the easy side, but there was a update that happened earlier last year where you can select harder difficulty parameters. Then there's another update coming out August 31st, that has a survival mode and two more playable characters and tons of filter options and character color options.

I dunno if Sifu counts but I found that too hard because of the roguelike. Oh, yeah- no roguelikes for me, nuh-uh.

We've already had the discussion and you even found out yourself from me, Sifu is not a rogue like/lite at all. The game is ball busting hard, but they did hatching an easy mode. There's one more update coming out for the bonus modes. It comes out next month.

definitely into Final Fight and Double Dragon back in the day, but the originals, but I'm not interested in direct nostalgia (like I'm sure there have been sequels and remakes and tributes but I don't care about any of that). I'd be more interested in newer stuff that evokes that same spirit but modernizes controls and graphics. And I'm exclusively playing on PS5 these days.

Double Dragon Gaiden just came out a few weeks ago. Now that one is a rogue-lite, but you can make the game as easy or difficult however you want with it s difficulty sliders. The game has 5 levels total, with the first four you can select in any order, but each level changes and the difficulty rises as you get further. Also the last boss you choose has a different final form if chosen last. There's also a double dragon collection coming out around november, but you can play the older ones on all digital stores at a cheap price, if you wish.

As for my other recommendations:

1. Streets of Rage 4 - This is my number one of course. It's got all these playable characters, all these difficulty options, a Boss Rush mode, and an optional survival mode that is randomized with different perks and power-ups. A great brawler with excellent sage design and some of the best music you can find.
2. The Takeover - This was going to be the unofficial SOR 4, until it actually got announced. Great game. Doesn't have as many characters, but they all have their own large move sets and can incorporate guns into their combos. The melee weapon variety sucks, but that's because one guy developed the game and he had to rush it out, so there was only so much he can do.
3. Final Vendetta - I do recommend that you get this game on a sale. There is only six stages, and only three payable characters. The combat is good and works fine, but knowing you, you probably won't stick with it for long. There's a few neat bonuses, but nothing is going to last you unless you want to go for trophies and that 1CC run.
4. Fight n Rage - this one I don't like as much certain others, but it is technically better than the last game I mentioned. My only problem with the game is that it tends to drag and I just don't like some of the bosses and the pacing of this game.

These are more 3D examples, but I recommend trying out Oneechanbara Z2 & Origin. If you only have to pick one, then let it be Z2. Origin might have sale, but you might as well do the sale that has all the extra dlc. Z2 have some dlc, but it's mainly some minor cosmetics. There's a lot more bonuses in that game. These are budget titles, that do have da jank, but it's mostly the fun jank. Think of these games as like a cross between Devil May Cry and Bayonetta. Though this franchise has been around since 2004, so it predates Bayonetta. The more recent Oneechanbara games still took influence from both series though.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Oh you know I didn’t realize Streets of Rage 4 was recent, since I knew the old ones were, well, old? Or i forgot? Either way, yeah that one looks great, thx for the reminder.

 

[BrawlMan]

@Old_Hunter_77, I'll give you another Capcom twofer: Resident Evil 5 & Devil May Cry 4. This is once again another vocal minority case, but haters were loud as hell. Both games got some hate from the Sony Fanboys at the time, because they were no longer going to be PS3 exclusives, when Sony revealed that $599 price tag, Capcom along with several other Japanese publishers and developers made their titles multi-platform, because they knew they wouldn't be able to make a good sale.

Aside from the stereotypical African natives in RE5, the game got hated on by the vocal minority, because of the more actionized nature and the addition of co-op. The game is better in co-op obviously, but it's just okay decently good in single player. It's a nightmare when you're playing on the hardest difficulty doing a single player playthrough. It can be done, but there will be a lot of frustration. I will agree and say that not having the ability to aim and shoot at the same time, similar to RE4, has made the game already age poorly in that regard. Dead Space was already out of here prior and you can shoot and move at the same time. Another problem was the increase use of QTEs. I also have an agreement with, but if you play the ports on 8th generation consoles or modern hardware, there's an option to make the QTEs easier.

Devil May Cry 4 got a slightly bigger vocal minority hate, because of the change in protagonists. Most people wanted to play as Dante for the majority of his first HD outing, and not as some new kid on the block, Nero. I never had a problem with Nero, and while he have some light Dante aspects, he was still his own character. He was a definite need to change up, and a nice way to put a grappler character in a stylish action game. The only problem with him was that his combat could be too basic, if you didn't know his deeper mechanics, nor how to pull them off correctly. The game being rushed and the lazy backtracking everyone can agree on. Not to mention, there is a much point playing the seventh generation version of this game anymore. Everything comes up shallow in terms of bonus features and costumes. Especially compared to the third game and it's special edition. Even with all that, despite all the whining and complaining from the vocal minority, both games were at one point the best selling games in their respective franchise for a whole decade. Feelings have softened up over both games over time from the loud vocal minority or super hardcore fans, so it's not as big as a deal that used to be. I admit that I don't play much of RE5, but I enjoy the MERCENARIES mode.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Funny I kind of didn't even know there was a Resident Evil 5. I mean, obviously I knew, I can count, but it's just one I never heard about.

My history with the series is that I watched and played along a little in the first or second one back in the day- like, what, the 90s? Whenever it came out, at a friend's house, on the Dreamcast or original Playstation.. I know I'm being vague but that's how long ago it was. It was around the time I stopped playing video games by myself (was just into other things). I just remember it was a big deal- look at this scary game trying to be hardcore! It was cool but nothing that made me want to pick up a controller on my own, we mostly just smoked a bowl and cracked jokes while someone was playing. I don't remember the actual game(s).

Then at some point a few years ago I picked up one of the remakes or prequels- I think it was literally called Resident Evil 0. Indeed it felt antiquated and annoying so I dropped it quickly. I understand the point of the game was to be more like a cultural preservation thing so that's on me not knowing what I was playing, or it was part of some subscription so whatever.

Then I tried Resident Evil 7 as part of some subscription and dropped it after I was leading a villain in a chase running around circles while trying to solve some puzzle. I realized horror games are not for me- all the squinting in the dark. So the series is not for me, that's ok, and I don't care enough to keep trying.
And I was starting to visit sites like this and paying attention to gamer conventional wisdom and learned that RE2 and 4 are beloved, 7 and 8 pretty popular, 6 reviled. I never hear nothing about 3 and 5. I assume 1 is respected as the first.

 

[BrawlMan]

Then at some point a few years ago I picked up one of the remakes or prequels- I think it was literally called Resident Evil 0. Indeed it felt antiquated and annoying so I dropped it quickly. I understand the point of the game was to be more like a cultural preservation thing so that's on me not knowing what I was playing, or it was part of some subscription so whatever.

You won't find too many defenders of RE0. The best you're going to get is people just liking Billy and Rebecca, sometimes pairing them, and that's about it. The game also suffers from prequel syndrome and add stuff that wasn't needed.

And I was starting to visit sites like this and paying attention to gamer conventional wisdom and learned that RE2 and 4 are beloved, 7 and 8 pretty popular, 6 reviled. I never hear nothing about 3 and 5. I assume 1 is respected as the first.

• RE2 and RE4 are the respective high points of the series. RE2 was one of the best survival horror sequels ever made. RE4 revitalized the franchise after it had gotten stale, and Capcom wanted to move on to something different. Let's not forget about the new over the shoulder perspective that has pretty much become a household staple for most third person games. They didn't want to make the same games over and over. It's ironic, because they fell into that trap between 4-6.
• 7 is okay, but it's literally just the first game in first person this time. The original was always supposed to be in first person, but they couldn't do it do the hardware limitations on the PlayStation. I never care too much for it and it's suffered from overhypeness, because Resident Evil was scary again to the majority of critics at certain fans at large. Yes, it's a better and more polished game than RE6, but it didn't make as much money as that game no matter where you go, and it's just too basic. THE MOLDED are the most boring enemies in the entire franchise as far as I'm concerned. Ethan moves too slow as well. I know he's supposed to be a regular guy, but a guy that young can move quicker than that.
• RE8 is better, but it's literally just RE4 again, but you're in Transylvania/Romania and dealing with Universal monsters.
• 3 was derided at the time for being a mission pack sequel, but the reverse started happening when people realize how not good Code Veronica actually was or has major gameplay issues in the second half of its game. History repeats itself, as now the same thing is happening with RE3R. Now was cut out in Remake, and I get that, but some people were going too hard or being too harsh. It's a good game overall. It certainly beats the original in terms of repayability and a better dodge function. Also better characters in the remake.
• People do talk about 5, but what has been said has already been said at this point. Other than Boulder punching memes, there is not much to talk about other than whether how much you like Sheva, or constantly quoting Wesker.
• The original is revered, but most people don't play it nowadays. Most tell you to just go straight to RE1R and move on. Just watch a YouTube video of the original PlayStation title, or play the DS version, since it comes with better and modern controls.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

The game is better in co-op obviously, but it's just okay and single player.

From what I've heard, one major problem with the co-op is that CPU-controlled Sheva is an absolute moron who will use up the best items you give her without any thought of whether or not they're needed. Co-op's fine, I suppose, but some of us don't want to go to the trouble of dealing with humanity finding a friend who also has the game.

 

[BrawlMan]

From what I've heard, one major problem with the co-op is that CPU-controlled Sheva is an absolute moron who will use up the best items you give her without any thought of whether or not they're needed. Co-op's fine, I suppose, but some of us don't want to go to the trouble of dealing with humanity finding a friend who also has the game.

I know. That's why I mentioned professional mode earlier and how it's a nightmare if you're going through single player with it. Chris suffers the same issue if you have Sheva as player one. It's best to give either a machine gun with unlimited ammo so that way they never need to reload and it makes it less difficult though for her, it's best to either give her a sniper or bow and arrow with unlimited ammo upgrade.

 

[BrawlMan]

Speaking of Streets of Rage 4, there was minor pre-over-hate before the game came out. There were a good amount of vocal minority fans crying about the art shift and not being pixelated. With people complaining that it looks like a "flash game", when they were and are all completely off. Everything in that game is hand-drawn and took time and effort. Once the game actually came out and was at its final release, both of these criticisms and quick judgments died down. Though another over hatred formed in the case of the game playing "too much" like the second game, and not enough like the third game. Even though that's not completely true. while SOR4 takes more from SOR2, it does more than enough to change up it's combat and gameplay style to be familiar, but new and different enough. It sucks there's no universal rolling or dashing anymore, but the game has more than enough work around with new moves to supplement or make up for it. Most characters Blitz Attacks or Forward + Specials act as a dash or an evasion of some kind. Including the green health System where if you use a special, you can get that health back as long as you don't take damage while hitting enemies. It works similar to how it works in Bloodborne. "Streets of Rage is the Dark Souls of brawlers!"/sarcasm.

Whenever 5 comes out, I do hope they bring back universal rolling or running. Until then, it's either play The Takeover, Fight n Rage, or Final Vendetta.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Whenever 5 comes out, I do hope they bring back universal rolling or running. Until then, it's either play The Takeover, Fight n Rage, or Final Vendetta.

The reason I don't mind the removal of a universal dodge mechanic other than regular sidestepping in Streets of Rage 4 is because it's designed to not need one. People who criticize it for lacking side-rolling or blocking because every other modern brawler has those mechanics are missing the point. It's like saying Vampire Survivors is bad because you can't use the right stick to aim, you can only aim in the direction you're actively moving, and every other game like it uses the twin-stick system so VS should too.

/hottakethread

 

[BrawlMan]

The reason I don't mind the removal of a universal dodge mechanic other than regular sidestepping in Streets of Rage 4 is because it's designed to not need one. People who criticize it for lacking side-rolling or blocking because every other modern brawler has those mechanics are missing the point.

Exactly. I just edited in, but I mentioned:

Most characters' Blitz Attacks or Forward + Specials act as a dash or an evasion of some kind.

Running was supposed to be in the original build, but it made all of the characters over powered, so there had to be compromise. It was either gives enemies double the health, or remove running/dashing entirely, aside from a few characters here and there. Dotemu and Lizard Cube didn't want to make the same mistake as SORR or the US version of SOR3.

People who criticize it for lacking side-rolling or blocking

Funny enough, the only modern brawlers I know that have blocking are Final Vendetta and technically Fight n' Rage. Though the latter's block mechanics act more like the 3rd Strike's Parry. There is Way of the Passive Fist, a.k.a, 3rd Strike: The Beat'em Up, but I never found it too interesting, even with its parry mechanic. Lack of enemy variety and no co-op was an issue for me too, but I think the game got co-op with an update. Hmmm....still not interested.

 

[Leg End]

Snip

More snip

Since one part of her series on PE was posted already, I call dibs on the video explaining how badly they defiled the whole fuckin thing and continue shamelessly plugging Sue.

They seriously did ya girl dirty.

 

[Mister Mumbler]

OK, so also at the risk of starting shit: Dead Island has been over-hyped, at least in this thread

I was gonna put up Dead Island as over-hated but looking at the review scores maybe it wasn't?

So not really hated at all.

Most people have said it's a decent first person zombie game that borrows the good weapon mechanics from Dead Rising 2. The franchise has always been middle of the road, slightly above average zombie games.

OK so...did any of you actually play DI? Because calling it mediocre is being charitable. A janky bastard child of Borderlands and L4D that manages to be worse than either. This is a game that let's you spec into a gun-centric character and then not give you a gun until half way through. That has about half a dozen different weapons you find in the hundreds but oh this piece of wood has purple text and +0.1 swing speed over your current board. An open world game with nothing interesting to do except trudge back and forth constantly for a weak story between the same locations killing never ending zombies that never feels fun because all you do is smack them over and over a dozen times because this is one of those awful 'number shooters' where you just chip numbers off of enemies health bars for minutes on end, before you even get to the bland special zombies.

What's worse is that this heap came out in 2011. L4D2 had already been running rings around it for years as far as coop zombie killing goes, COD just released their own high point in couch zombie killing with Black Ops, and DayZ was still a free mod for Arma 2 if you wanted an open world zombie survival experience, and zombies in general were already feeling worn out. This is why everyone was excited about Dead Islands trailer (which was one of the first big 'this trailer was a total lie' moments lest we forget), because it looked like we were going to get an actual narrative driven zombie game that went further than just 'click zombie until dead'. This is why Telltales TWD game, which came out the next year, was so beloved, because it did give us just that, which means it wasn't just some small minority.

I mean, if you want further proof, the fact that they basically took all the junk out (different characters with useless skills, boring guns, bland enemies) and put in parkour (Dying Light) and was way better received should be evident enough about how bad DI was. There's a reason nobody really talks about DI, and it's not because it was some forgotten or misunderstood gem.

 

[BrawlMan]

OK, so also at the risk of starting shit: Dead Island has been over-hyped, at least in this thread




OK so...did any of you actually play DI? Because calling it mediocre is being charitable. A janky bastard child of Borderlands and L4D that manages to be worse than either. This is a game that let's you spec into a gun-centric character and then not give you a gun until half way through. That has about half a dozen different weapons you find in the hundreds but oh this piece of wood has purple text and +0.1 swing speed over your current board. An open world game with nothing interesting to do except trudge back and forth constantly for a weak story between the same locations killing never ending zombies that never feels fun because all you do is smack them over and over a dozen times because this is one of those awful 'number shooters' where you just chip numbers off of enemies health bars for minutes on end, before you even get to the bland special zombies.

What's worse is that this heap came out in 2011. L4D2 had already been running rings around it for years as far as coop zombie killing goes, COD just released their own high point in couch zombie killing with Black Ops, and DayZ was still a free mod for Arma 2 if you wanted an open world zombie survival experience, and zombies in general were already feeling worn out. This is why everyone was excited about Dead Islands trailer (which was one of the first big 'this trailer was a total lie' moments lest we forget), because it looked like we were going to get an actual narrative driven zombie game that went further than just 'click zombie until dead'. This is why Telltales TWD game, which came out the next year, was so beloved, because it did give us just that, which means it wasn't just some small minority.

I mean, if you want further proof, the fact that they basically took all the junk out (different characters with useless skills, boring guns, bland enemies) and put in parkour (Dying Light) and was way better received should be evident enough about how bad DI was. There's a reason nobody really talks about DI, and it's not because it was some forgotten or misunderstood gem.

I only played the game twice. Once at a friend's, and another time at my older brother's. I never said there wasn't any jank, but I do know it was one of those games that was more fun when you had two or more people with you. I also never stated or implied it was better than Dead Rising nor any of the Left 4 Dead games. I'll take your word for it, but it doesn't surprise me nor do I see it as some Grand revelation. Like I said before, I always just saw the game as barely above average or barely above mediocre. It also came out of the time where the zombie fad was still high it didn't start dying off till around 2013 and a little bit afterwards. The Last Of Us & Walking Dead being the exceptions, of course.

Also, I don't know where you got the idea of most people were thinking the game was some misunderstood or forgotten gem. That thought never crossed my mind, so I don't know who you been hearing that from.