Patriotism isn't all bad?

[WouldYouKindly]

I'm only patriotic in the sense that I would defend my country if it was invaded, unlikely since I live in the U.S.

We don't really have a prevailing culture, but an amalgam of a dozen or so that all vary from region to region. I like that about the U.S. Aside from that, I'm not really big on patriotism or nationalism at all. It's a title I was born with, little more. I feel more of a connection to my region(New England) than to my country as a whole.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

The problems start when you let that subjective sense of patriotism/pride trick you into believing that your country is objectively better than others.

or even worse, believing that other countries have nothing to offer, due to them being so inferior to your own.

 

[Togs]

Just because not everyone is religious doesn't mean the church should just stop existing - as a Christian I would take offense at this. I mean just because you're athiest or whatever doesn't mean the church should go away.

Never suggested it should, but when such things as faith schools are allowed to exist, and the pope can have a state funded visit somethings gone wrong somewhere.

 

[Speakercone]

Patriotism is clearly a good thing if it causes citizens to strive to make theirs an excellent country.

Patriotism is clearly a bad thing if it causes citizens to become xenophobic or if it is used as a political tool to control the people of a nation.

Unfortunately we find the latter to be the more common scenario worldwide.

I'm proud to be an Englishman to the extent that I want to do what I can to make this country as great as it can be, in my own small way. Clearly I have a lot of work ahead of me.

OT: pubs are also one of my favourite things about living in Britain

 

[Erana]

Just because not everyone is religious doesn't mean the church should just stop existing - as a Christian I would take offense at this. I mean just because you're athiest or whatever doesn't mean the church should go away.

Never suggested it should, but when such things as faith schools are allowed to exist, and the pope can have a state funded visit somethings gone wrong somewhere.

People like the pope tend to bring a lot of attention, and thus money, to an area. Its like how governments will fund things to help tourist businesses.


I've had patriotism by way of loving the fact that America was a pioneer in democracy of the modern world. However, its kinda died in the past few years, and for the first time, I have been envisioning living in another country in the future.

 

[orangeban]

Meh, if I love something about a country, I love that thing about the country, not the country itself. Love specifics, not generally (speaking in patriotism terms here), I find that loving a whole country seriously dulls my ability at taking the piss out of everything at all times.

 

[Zulnam]

Patriotism is the greatest manipulation method ever created. You have to admire it's efficiency, honestly. It beats religion every day of the week.

 

[BRex21]

There are two kinds of patriotism, The love of ones country and the love of ones countries image.
I was born and raised in Canada, I love Canada, I voluntaraly tended the grounds of a war memorial in my home town when others didn't, but I will still say my country is wrong to sell asbestos to third world nations, free of warning labels, and run taxpayer funded campaigns to convince them its safe.
The problem I see is when people have such a frial ego about their country they refuse to admit that it has problems, like every other country in the world. To put it another way if your cars muffler falls off do you make excuses and point out how good the paint looks or do you find a way to fix it?

 

[ScoopMeister]

Not sure of the exact definition but to me patriotism means "loving your country", meaing being blind ot its faults, failings and all those things that are wrong with it.

No offense, but this is a rubbish definition. I mean, I love my little sister, but goddamn it I can recognise her faults and failings.

OP: And yes, I love my country. I mean, lets face it, England is a pretty cool place, despite shitty weather that can't make it's mind up and the pricks who are in charge (though Boris Johnson is beast). You hit the nail on the head with the pubs my friend, and you've gotta love the food too. Even though I could do without the chavs (I live in Aldershot after all), but there are just as many decent people, and we've got hands down one of the richest cultures and histories in Europe (and the world) IMO.

 

[Togs]

Not sure of the exact definition but to me patriotism means "loving your country", meaing being blind ot its faults, failings and all those things that are wrong with it.

No offense, but this is a rubbish definition. I mean, I love my little sister, but goddamn it I can recognise her faults and failings.

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=patriotism

Turns out i was right with it though.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

America's okay, I guess. I mean, I wouldn't have that much patriotism at all, except that douches screaming "NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!" or similar stupid phrases they throw about to feel like they did something are both annoying and populous, so I've started having mildly patriotic feelings out of pity.

The extreme patriotism is as hilarious as it is dangerous, however. Pride in your country is one thing, blindly supporting it in every regard is not.

 

[Dogstile]

Not sure of the exact definition but to me patriotism means "loving your country", meaing being blind ot its faults, failings and all those things that are wrong with it.

In my mind its better to like or enjoy living in oyur country- I like Britain, I like the British Reserve, I like tea, I like our architecture, our countryside, that fact that we seem to be the only country that can make ale, I like that faint sense of melancholy and whimsy that everyone has, I like the fact we dont suffer fools gladly, I like our music and how all our TV is gritty and dark, I like our comedy- few countries seem to get satire like we do and countless other things.

But do I love it? god no, we're an aged clumsy wreck riddled with antiquated traditions that should of seen the axe long ago, we have a whole line in privilege that needs to end now, their such a disaprity between our rich and poor its shocking, our government is run my ignorant, bigotted fools (cough*Cameron*cough) and we're still sucking on the churchs slong despite over 40% of the nation identifying as atheist or agnostic.

Just because not everyone is religious doesn't mean the church should just stop existing - as a Christian I would take offense at this. I mean just because you're athiest or whatever doesn't mean the church should go away.

You know, I don't actually think he said the church should go away, just that he thought we should stop bowing to it as much as we do.

I don't personally see that, considering all the killing our countries been doing (or kicking ass, if you prefer, I don't myself) and the church is yet to be all "hang on, you shouldn't kill people".

 

[ScoopMeister]

Just because not everyone is religious doesn't mean the church should just stop existing - as a Christian I would take offense at this. I mean just because you're athiest or whatever doesn't mean the church should go away.

Never suggested it should, but when such things as faith schools are allowed to exist, and the pope can have a state funded visit somethings gone wrong somewhere.

What's wrong with faith schools exactly? They accept other religions and they don't force it down your throat. In fact, they can also be a good thing- they instill good values in their students and it's generally a friendly and pleasant atmosphere to be in (granted, sitting through masses can be an utter drag, but hey).

Plus, papal visits can be a good thing too. They keep the religious folk happy and they can be good for both publicity and tourism.

 

[ScoopMeister]

Not sure of the exact definition but to me patriotism means "loving your country", meaing being blind ot its faults, failings and all those things that are wrong with it.

No offense, but this is a rubbish definition. I mean, I love my little sister, but goddamn it I can recognise her faults and failings.

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=patriotism

Turns out i was right with it though.

No you weren't. Nowhere in that definition did it say that you are unable to see your country's faults and failings, it just said that you love the place. You were only half right.

 

[Togs]

What's wrong with faith schools exactly? They accept other religions and they don't force it down your throat. In fact, they can also be a good thing- they instill good values in their students and it's generally a friendly and pleasant atmosphere to be in (granted, sitting through masses can be an utter drag, but hey).

Plus, papal visits can be a good thing too. They keep the religious folk happy and they can be good for both publicity and tourism.

No you weren't. Nowhere in that definition did it say that you are unable to see your country's faults and failings, it just said that you love the place. You were only half right.

And like that another religious arguement starts, things I generally avoid to their pointlessness, so all Ill say on that matter is the pope can visit all he wants, but when non believers have to help foot the bill- I wouldnt expect theists to pay for a secular equivalent.

And love carries the underlying aspect of being a state of heightened emotion- emotion is by definition irrational, it can be tempered by reason and logic but in a case such as this that can be rare.

 

[ScoopMeister]

What's wrong with faith schools exactly? They accept other religions and they don't force it down your throat. In fact, they can also be a good thing- they instill good values in their students and it's generally a friendly and pleasant atmosphere to be in (granted, sitting through masses can be an utter drag, but hey).

Plus, papal visits can be a good thing too. They keep the religious folk happy and they can be good for both publicity and tourism.

No you weren't. Nowhere in that definition did it say that you are unable to see your country's faults and failings, it just said that you love the place. You were only half right.

And like that another religious arguement starts, things I generally avoid to their pointlessness, so all Ill say on that matter is the pope can visit all he wants, but when non believers have to help foot the bill- I wouldnt expect theists to pay for a secular equivalent.

And love carries the underlying aspect of being a state of heightened emotion- emotion is by definition irrational, it can be tempered by reason and logic but in a case such as this that can be rare.

I don't particularly want want to continue this conversation, but I'd just like to point out that you conceded that patriotism isn't always blind love in that last sentence, and therefore my point still stands.

Oh, and sorry about the Pope thing, I misread and didn't notice that you were talking about the tax paying part.

 

[Nickolai77]

Yeah i don't see anything wrong with being proud of your national identity. It's one identity among many which individuals have that we can be proud of. Just so long as one doesn't get to excessive with their national identity and become intolerant then things are fine.

Also, the OP's post exhibits what i think is a major difference between US and Brit national identities: British national identity is about things (pubs, tea, queuing) whereas the US national identity is about abstract ideas (democracy, liberty, freedom).

 

[Folksoul]

Patriotism isn't the problem. It's nationalism and that is the problem. Pride in your country does not mean worshipping your country.

Favourite Canadian thing? ummm.. several.
An immigrant country being able to say 40% or more of our elected officials are 1st generation immigrants/minorities, competent and to the point news coverage, very short election cycles, the landscape, at any given address you about 5-10 minutes away from both a Tim Horton's and a sushi bar, socialist benefits without being too restrictive, easily imported American goods, ice wine (also a Russian thing), poutine, etc.


Least favourite Canadian thing? Easy. As much as I love the cultural mosaic, things need to be said and laws need to be changed.
For an example of things that need to go:
Tax breaks for being not white. Aboriginal Canadians this is not meant as hate speech but, if you wish to benefit from the system then goddam pay into it. No property taxes, no sales taxes, no sin taxes, no income taxes, free trades education. Think of all the money that could have gone to our hospitals, libraries, schools, military, or national debt. (see South park episode "Royal Pudding" for a gag version of this)