PC/Console gaming segregation

[shrekfan246]

To be completely fair to the people who throw out those complaints, it's a little hard to stomach the "not-elitist" excuse when you turn around and see tons of forums flooding with people saying they refuse to buy a 2D platformer because it potentially runs at 30 FPS instead of 60. Not even a precision platformer like Super Meat Boy. It sucks that it might arbitrarily be locked because the development team just isn't that good with PC development, but 30 FPS is still perfectly playable on a PC.

Super Meat Boy isn't locked to 30fps, I'm 90% sure it's not even 30fps on xbox, since meat boy at 30fps just wouldn't work and I've played it on an xbox before.

Admittedly my wording was poor, but that was my point. I meant that the game I was talking about wasn't even a precision platformer like Super Meat Boy is.

a 2d platformer only running at 30 fps? well they damn well shouldn't give the devs any money they're absolutely incompetent.

Well, 3D side-scrolling, to be more specific. But it's a Sega game, so I don't exactly know what people were expecting of the PC version.

 

[gnihton]

I don't disagree, but when people start accusing things like Crysis 2 of being "dumbed down" because they put in keybindings for the nanosuit controls instead of making you open up the radial menu, I find it hard to sympathize. (And yes, that really happened too.)

You're either remembering this wrong, or you're remembering the rambling of an idiot.

For one, hotkeys replacing radial menus is the opposite of dumbing down, and for two, the original Crysis had hotkeys for each suit mode anyway.

Now, the actual reason Crysis 2 was dumbed down is because they replaced 4 interesting suit modes with 2 crappy ones.

 

[Radoh]

The only PC gamers I've seen call them selves "the master race" do it sarcastically or jokingly.

That's a common mechanism there that PC Gamers use to defend other PC Gamers, the same way a console fanboy's gonna defend his ilk. When it's said 90% of the time I've seen it, it's not followed by the atypical LOLs or J/Ks to imply it's a joke. I assume we're mostly adults or mature here on Escapist to know a troll post or troll comment on YouTube when we see it. Sorry, but I'm not buying that for a million dollars.

Really? You need to see a lol or jk to know something's a joke?
So you honestly believe that people will, as you say, associate with Nazis completely straight faced when they're talking about video games? This is The Escapist, home of Zero Punctuation, the show that coined the phrase in a derisive manner. Do you seriously think that the people here are so stupid that they would see him mocking PC Elitists and say, "Yep, that's us!" proudly?

Oh wait, I get it, you really had me going there.
You yourself are pulling the same joke, enacting Godwin's Law as a farce to make fun of the joke of the Master Race.
You are a clever little duck, I'll give you that.

 

[Eve Charm]

To be fair the only place you really ever see these arguments is on Console message boards like gamefaqs and pc is an whole different beast then a console. It's as off topic as talking about your Iphone. While most pc gamers wouldn't call themselves the master race, the pc gamers that would go and troll a console message board are the type that would.

 

[Hero of Lime]

In recent years, it seems like the number of differences between consoles and PC are shrinking. Most console games get PC ports nowadays, PCs don't look leagues ahead of consoles in terms of graphics(I know someone will correct me on this, but I honestly cannot tell much of a difference.) Of course people will still fight over it, PS3 and 360 are very similar machines when you get down to it, yet we know how ugly a battle between those fanboy armies can get.

I like console and handheld gaming, I have nothing against PC gaming, but I really don't need it considering I have plenty of other gaming facets with multiple consoles. I just hate it when someone makes the statement that by playing on a console as opposed to a self built PC makes the person a casual gamer, that can be very annoying to hear. It's a rare thing to see, but once in a while I will see it said even on the Escapist.

 

[TelHybrid]

but if it is a console thread then why the fuck would you post about your pc? even if they may have a pc it's still a console thread so what drove you to start posting about your pc?

What the hell is wrong with a "neither" option on a thread? Why is it such a travesty to say "I'm building a PC instead of buying a new console?"

PCs are used as gaming devices. This is a video game forum. Therefore, if people want to talk about their PC where relevant, and one's choice of gaming platform is pretty damn relevant, then why should one demographic get a big "fuck you"?

 

[Rastrelly]

The only PC gamers I've seen call them selves "the master race" do it sarcastically or jokingly.

That's a common mechanism there that PC Gamers use to defend other PC Gamers, the same way a console fanboy's gonna defend his ilk. When it's said 90% of the time I've seen it, it's not followed by the atypical LOLs or J/Ks to imply it's a joke. I assume we're mostly adults or mature here on Escapist to know a troll post or troll comment on YouTube when we see it. Sorry, but I'm not buying that for a million dollars.

I must inform you that I ruled this galaxy for millions of years. I owerthrown Uranus and made ancient deities fall to my feet. Then I got tired and travelled to Silver Castle and slept up until now, surrounded by harmony of the Universes. And I imply you will take this sentence absolutely seriously for there is no clear indication of it being a joke.

Also I consider PC a superior platform, but I think everyone has the right to spend their money the way they want, even if I think their way of spending is strange at the least.

 

[BitterLemon]

The pc elitist stuff always sound funny to me... where I live, it's quite the opposite. Consoles are considered a big luxury and PCs are something considered more useful, so people make a effort to run games with whatever shitty laptop they have. Buying a console is like "oooooh, you're so special that you need to play in a big TV on the living room, sitting in your comfy couch, with cool graphics! You can't be like normal people who play at low settings, running at 20fps in a small laptop screen, sitting in a horrible office chair!"

Just yesterday my friends were talking about one of the guys because he had bought a PS3 this week and someone said "He bought a console? Jeez... he didn't seem that kind of people..."

Lately, it's changing a bit because consoles are getting cheaper, but still costs almost 2 times the minimum wage.

 

[Skeleon]

That's a common mechanism there that PC Gamers use to defend other PC Gamers, the same way a console fanboy's gonna defend his ilk. When it's said 90% of the time I've seen it, it's not followed by the atypical LOLs or J/Ks to imply it's a joke.

Oh noes, they didn't clearly state they were joking when they referred to themselves as "the master race". Well, then I'm sure there was no sarcasm involved whatsoever of course!

Anyway, regarding the fps-debate: Depends a lot on the game. FPS in particular require high fps (confusing with the acronyms, eh) for precision gaming. 30 fps is too low there. Try playing a game like Painkiller with low fps. Awful. It's less of an issue with FPS on consoles because the controller-based gameplay is already a lot more floaty. Some platformers have issues with low fps, too, like Super Meatboy. Certainly not a game that is heralded for its high-def graphical brilliance, but fps actually has gameplay-implications there. In fact, fps is much more important to a lot of gamers than graphics. Who cares whether the textures are slightly more detailed if the flow of the game suffers? So, reducing your graphical settings to fulfill the "snooty" desire for high fps is quite common among PC gamers who don't have the newest hardware.

 

[Bombiz]

but if it is a console thread then why the fuck would you post about your pc? even if they may have a pc it's still a console thread so what drove you to start posting about your pc?

What the hell is wrong with a "neither" option on a thread? Why is it such a travesty to say "I'm building a PC instead of buying a new console?"

i feel like neither or i don't care should be an option on more things.

 

[Bad Jim]

I can tell the difference between 30 and 60 as well. 60 is noticeably smoother and more responsive and generally feels better. I won't dispute that.

But it sounds particularly snooty and dismissive to outright state "I refuse to purchase this game because it doesn't run at a particular and arbitrary level of smoothness."

30 FPS is a "semi-decent" standard. Unless you're the type of person who's shelled out the money for a 120Hz monitor, 60 FPS is generally going to be the absolute maximum your PC will display anyway.

For just about every modern console game locked at 30 FPS, the sacrifice of visual quality required to get it running at 60 FPS would be pretty small. You can tell when there is an order of magnitude difference in rendering power, as there is between console generations, but with a factor of two it is hard to tell.

To me it sounds rather dismissive to shout down the 60 FPS advocates when the cost of 60 FPS is not all that great.

The reason why 30 FPS dominates is not that it is truly better, it is that Youtube etc show videos at 30 FPS, so anyone watching videos of a 60 FPS game before they buy will see no increase in smoothness, only less polygons.

We PC gamers do not harp on about 60 FPS just because we can get 60 FPS and you can't, it is because we get to choose, and even when our PCs are slower than the consoles, we nearly always pick 60 FPS over a slightly prettier 30 FPS. It seems crazy to us that console developers choose 30 FPS.

 

[Thr33X]

I see I've struck quite a few nerves, eh? Well...some folks are just gonna have to deal with the idea of counterpoints to their counterpoints. That is after all how this whole thing works. You think what you think, I think what I think, and if there is a conflict of interest...well those be the breaks as the old folks would say.

I love it how you take it upon yourself to decide which claims and opinions have substance. Unless you actually start to elaborate on your previous claims all I read is just a big pile of nonsense. I explained my position and how low FPS affects my enjoyment of all aspects of the game and you try and tell me what I need to focus on and spend my money on.

Get off your high horse because right now you display "elitism". You assume your position is superiour without anything to back that position up.

"PC Nazi". Classy.

Nice try at flipping it, but obviously you didn't get the message. What YOU think is what YOU think regarding your preference towards games, just as what I think is what I think regarding sports teams. Regardless of what our opinions are on either topic however, people are going to have opinions about our opinions when they differ from their own. I think your opinion is snobbish, you think mine is nonsense, see how that works? If you at all think that's me being on a high horse then I really don't know what else to say to you. I have no need to back up anything I've said because it's based on my own personal experience on the topic, and quite frankly that's all I need...so if it's some fact check you're looking for then I suppose this will be our last interaction for the rest of our online existences, because you won't be getting that from me.

And no, the term PC Nazi isn't classy at all (I knowingly accept your sarcasm there), but if individuals can "joke" about being better than others, then I can make a rebuttal of a joke about that joke as I see fit. Is the word Nazi offensive? Sorry if I don't cater to sensitivities. I called PC Gamers in general out on their tendencies, pure and simple...and the backlash is readily apparent. There's an old adage that fits this situation and it goes "only the guilty take offense".

However...I do it to XBots and Sony Ponies as well...so as you can see I'm an equal opportunity "hater". Do I have to come up with clever names? Nope...but it's a joke. So if your fellow PC Gamers can do it, can I not?

 

[shrekfan246]

I can tell the difference between 30 and 60 as well. 60 is noticeably smoother and more responsive and generally feels better. I won't dispute that.

But it sounds particularly snooty and dismissive to outright state "I refuse to purchase this game because it doesn't run at a particular and arbitrary level of smoothness."

30 FPS is a "semi-decent" standard. Unless you're the type of person who's shelled out the money for a 120Hz monitor, 60 FPS is generally going to be the absolute maximum your PC will display anyway.

For just about every modern console game locked at 30 FPS, the sacrifice of visual quality required to get it running at 60 FPS would be pretty small. You can tell when there is an order of magnitude difference in rendering power, as there is between console generations, but with a factor of two it is hard to tell.

To me it sounds rather dismissive to shout down the 60 FPS advocates when the cost of 60 FPS is not all that great.

The reason why 30 FPS dominates is not that it is truly better, it is that Youtube etc show videos at 30 FPS, so anyone watching videos of a 60 FPS game before they buy will see no increase in smoothness, only less polygons.

You know how monumentally weak the current consoles are, right? And how the fact that the Xbox, Playstation, and PC all use completely different APIs means developers basically have to make three versions of every multi-platform game? And where did I say that 30 FPS was better? In fact, I said 60 FPS is better. 30 FPS is the standard for consoles because they don't have the RAM and graphical power to cope with it otherwise. Quite a few more recent PS3 games can't even get a steady 30 FPS. It's not as simple as them dropping the graphical fidelity; The consoles are just that old and difficult to develop for when you've got to make multiple copies of the same thing over and over again and try to get them all to reach a same standard.

We PC gamers do not harp on about 60 FPS just because we can get 60 FPS and you can't, it is because we get to choose, and even when our PCs are slower than the consoles, we nearly always pick 60 FPS over a slightly prettier 30 FPS. It seems crazy to us that console developers choose 30 FPS.

Yeah... I primarily play games on my PC. So... maybe don't make wide sweeping generalizations?

 

[Bombiz]

Nice try at flipping it, but obviously you didn't get the message. What YOU think is what YOU think regarding your preference towards games, just as what I think is what I think regarding sports teams. Regardless of what our opinions are on either topic however, people are going to have opinions on our opinions about our opinions when they differ from their own. I think your opinion is snobbish, you think mine is nonsense, see how that works? If you at all think that's me being on a high horse then I really don't know what else to say to you. I have no need to back up anything I've said because it's based on my own personal experience on the topic, and quite frankly that's all I need...so if it's some fact check you're looking for then I suppose this will be our last interaction for the rest of our online existences, because you won't be getting that from me.

And no, the term PC Nazi isn't classy at all (I knowingly accept your sarcasm there), but if individuals can "joke" about being better than others, then I can make a rebuttal of a joke about that joke as I see fit. Is the word Nazi offensive? Sorry if I don't cater to sensitivities. I called PC Gamers in general out on their tendencies, pure and simple...and the backlash is readily apparent. There's an old adage that fits this situation and it goes "only the guilty take offense".

However...I do it to XBots and Sony Ponies as well...so as you can see I'm an equal opportunity "hater". Do I have to come up with clever names? Nope...but it's a joke. So if your fellow PC Gamers can do it, can I not?

XBots and Sony Ponies aren't really offensive and just by saying that doesn't make you an "equal opportunity hater". and why do you put quotation marks around joke. What are jokes bad or something? and why do you need a rebuttal to that joke? If some one is meaning a joke their not starting a debate.I just don't get your logic at all.

"only the guilty take offense".

I guess by that logic all gay people must be pedophiles.

 

[Funyahns]

Pc elitists are not worse than the people who overly love their specific console. Or those people who defend their favorite MMO, or the latest final fantasy. Anybody who blindly loves a product and can't believe that their product of choice could be flawed. Its not a pc gamer thing its just that personality and they are all over the spectrum. My best friend has a PS3 and I have a 360. Guess how many times we have argued over who has the superior console?.... Never. Don't group all pc people together based off of a couple idiots. They should go into the same group as the people who were defending the xbox one policies and who think BioWare is still amazing.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

Personally I find this whole pc vs console thing a pain in the ass cause there's a lot things about pc gaming that I like and some things that I don't like so believe me, I'd love to discuss consoles AND pc's online but threads usually get those guys who suddenly have to rebut every complaint leveled against pcs with half assed bullshit opinions that can't be argued against cause they're so stupid.

"Yeah Steam was being a pain in the ass yesterday and my computer locked up twice while trying start Dude Bro Gun Fuckers 4 and I had to restart it"

"I'VE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM STARTING A GAME ON STEAM IN 5 YEARS!"

"Ok..."

It just gets old, so I avoid threads that about pc gaming which is why I would get annoyed if someone brought up pc's in a console thread cause then I know those guys aren't far behind. Luckily have real life friends who are into pc's and some who are into consoles so I can complain about and gush over pc's with them

 

[Thr33X]

snip

You assume that people who prefer less flaws on the technical side of any game have a stance of lesser substance.

You hit the nail right on the head. There will ALWAYS be flaws on the technical side of a game, especially if it's a game being released on multiple platforms, so to point out those flaws as being "dealbreakers" as it were if they aren't game breakers as is the case with FPS, is in my honest, humble opinion a load of malarkey. If that makes me elitist then so be it. It's MY opinion, and in my opinion people who think that way pretty much missed out on a lot, but that is THEIR opinion, ponderous as it may seem to somebody like me who's been around for EVERY console generation from Atari 2600 to now.

In said opinion, where I grew up in a time where graphics and framerate and all the rest of the jargon which people like to toss around like horseshoes meant nothing, I appreciate a good game for being that, a good game. And if it in fact ISN'T a good game, through some more urgent factors than how fast it runs, then I will call it out like nobody's business. Otherwise, no game is going to be 100% perfect, so to discredit a game that's 90% perfect is the stance of someone's who's spoiled rotten.

There's your substance. And if that makes me an "elitist" then I'll wear the bad guy badge with pride.

 

[Bad Jim]

Quite a few more recent PS3 games can't even get a steady 30 FPS. It's not as simple as them dropping the graphical fidelity; The consoles are just that old and difficult to develop for when you've got to make multiple copies of the same thing over and over again and try to get them all to reach a same standard.

Yes, it really is that simple. For the vast majority of games, the only part that needs significant processing power is rendering. Render less and the fps goes up. I could play Unreal Tournament at 60 fps, on a far less powerful machine than current gen consoles. And when a new console generation comes out and PCs have to work to keep up with them, the PC versions of games generally let you set detail levels well below console quality, and they still lock the consoles at 30 fps.