PCGA: Twice as many "Gaming" PCs sold than consoles combined in 2009

[Treblaine]

So why set the "minimum" for a PC that must be literally 10x more powerful than typical games console before they will be considered fit for gaming?

I do have to point out that in general, PC fanboys tend to have a massive graphix addiction. It makes me wonder why they dismiss any PC that can't play everything at 3040p at maximum graphics. Myself, I'll settle for medium.

I can tell you are an outsider when it comes to PC gaming, talking a lot of prejudice and revealing your misconceptions.

720p is too small a resolution for gameplay as you simply have less pixels of precision with aiming, even if upscaled. It's only really acceptable in the very casual way of playing games very far away from a screen. PC gamers sit closer to both see more detail and fill a wider proportion of their vision (often with a wider field of view too).

Now that is better, regardless of graphics fidelity, whether you are playing Quake or Crysis. It's just a more immersive experience, console games feel like tunnel-vision by comparison.

Framerate too is a gameplay feature often fobbed off as "graphic whore obsession" when it is absolutely vital in how a game FEELS especially with mouse-look and zero input-lag you also get on PC. Even graphical fidelity (including anti-aliasing) is important if games are both a visual medium and an art form, why is it so sacrilegious to have LESS blurred/blocky/jaggy/distorted game world from what the artists were trying to depict? Especially if now for PC this is achievable with such decently priced graphics hardware.

Console games standards are BORDERLINE acceptable performance for the kinds of games they feature. Any improvement over the (often aspirational) console standard of 720p@30fps is extremely welcome.

If there should be a "minimum" it should be any graphics card equivalent with Xbox 360's GPU which at the moment that exceeded by virtually all discrete graphics cards manufactured now, so it's quite a superfluous requirement. Plus, any PC with a discrete graphics card can very cheaply be upgraded to almost anything.

 

[Treblaine]

We have a winner! You want to track the status of PC gaming as an industry? Track the sales of PC games. Simple as that.

True, only by it's very nature it is such a fractured market, it's not worth tracking retail sales if they they can't follow downloadable as well. But for perspective Half Life 2 has sold 6.5 million copies mostly on PC, while Gears of War has sold approximately 5 million copies mostly on 360.

This study is to show that the MARKET is there for PC gaming, even if the capitalisation is not at full capacity.

Really the problem I think across both PC and all consoles is the increasing "casual-isation" of entertainment. For example in the late-90's/Early-2000s Half Life 1 sold 20 million units mainly on PC. That's more than any hardcore game on any one system.

The Wii is living proof. People are so seduced by easy labour saving and mental effort saving devices, lifestyle and approach that I think this is infesting the wider gaming audience. They don't want "hardcore" games as much as before. It seems as if the hardcore audiences (separately on each console and PC) are becoming more entrenched and extreme most of the market are going somewhere else.

Facebook reached HALF A BILLION users recently. Media consumption has changed. I think the gaming that we consider real gaming like Half Life, Metal gear Solid and Halo is being marginalised by a disperse tidal wave of mass-market no-challenge mediocre games and other forms of media consumption.

Think about how long people fuck around on Facebook... browse Hulu...

 

[omega 616]

Isn't it funny? somebody even mentions PC gaming in the title of a thread and it turns into "PC's are the grand puba's of gaming, there power is simply unmatched by those pesky consoles".

Who gives a rats behind, if people think consoles are best why not be a smug git and not say a word, just think "those delusional fools". Be the bigger people, same for console player, just sit and think "ha, were better than them".

Will save us all alot of time and bother.

On topic. Every car with an engine is now a racing car! Trust me they are, no I won't tell you who my sources are, it's just a fact. So there!

 

[Continuity]

I am amazed that Nvidia/ATI are able to sell so many discrete graphics cards while so few people actually use them to their full capability.

I guess Sony and Xbox do invest billions in marketing their consoles and evangelising gaming on them.

Hmm I would say that to qualify as a "gaming PC" that graphics card ought to have a minimum cost of about £100, then I think we'd see a different picture...

You can get a LOT of Graphics Processing for $100

Like the Radeon 4850 for often less than $100 will play Unreal Tournament 3 (very common engine on PS3 + 360) at greater than 1080p (1920x1200) at 83 frames/sec with maxed out settings.

Xbox 360 playing UT3 and games with similar engine like Gears of War 2 manage only 720p and 24-30fps on equivalent of medium graphics settings.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1470/radeon_hd_4850_in_crossfire_at_4ghz/index9.html

So why set the "minimum" for a PC that must be literally 10x more powerful than typical games console before they will be considered fit for gaming?

Because anyone building a "gaming" PC will spend that on a card, at least. We're not talking about counting the number of PC's capable of gaming here, we're talking about the number of PCs that were sold/built specifically with gaming in mind.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

As they're literally, not the same type of processing for Games.

Of course, as was discovered, an ATI Radeon HD 3000 GPU series can be firmware hacked into being the FireGL equivalent. ATI was unimpressed as Radeons sell for a fuck of a lot less than FireGLs.

 

[Treblaine]

Isn't it funny? somebody even mentions PC gaming in the title of a thread and it turns into "PC's are the grand puba's of gaming, there power is simply unmatched by those pesky consoles".

Who gives a rats behind, if people think consoles are best why not be a smug git and not say a word, just think "those delusional fools". Be the bigger people, same for console player, just sit and think "ha, were better than them".

Will save us all alot of time and bother.

On topic. Every car with an engine is now a racing car! Trust me they are, no I won't tell you who my sources are, it's just a fact. So there!

Be the bigger people, same for console player, just sit and think "ha, we're better than them".

Isn't that a bit.. elitist? Exactly what PC gamers are continuously slandered with?

Why is it so unreasonable to inform (evangelise to?) other forum users they could easily have things much better? This is not bragging, this is trying to improve others and in a round about way aid help PC gaming by getting more people doing it.

 

[Jfswift]

Yea, as others said, it's kind of irrelevant when you consider consoles are custom built for one purpose and a PC with a card may not have sufficient power for all games.

 

[Irridium]

Thats like Sony saying they sold more Sony electronics than Microsoft sold Microsoft electronics. Or something.

Basically its crap. No PC gaming isn't dieing, but it is true that publishers seem to be trying their hardest to kill it.

 

[SimuLord]

Thank Windows Vista/7 for the rise in "gaming" PC sales. Aero won't run properly without dedicated graphics hardware, so manufacturers are putting the hardware into even low-end PCs, which according to PCGA metrics makes them "gaming" PCs.

In other words, BULL. SHIT.

That's not to say PC gaming isn't thriving; one needs only count the Steam users. PC retail's deader than dead, but again, blame (or thank) Steam for that. When all one needs to do is be patient to get access to any PC game they could possibly want at least 50% cheaper than getting it at Best Buy, no wonder retail's dead! The only disc-based games that sell anymore are The Sims games because EA doesn't want to share revenue with Valve on its biggest cash cow.

 

[Treblaine]

I am amazed that Nvidia/ATI are able to sell so many discrete graphics cards while so few people actually use them to their full capability.

I guess Sony and Xbox do invest billions in marketing their consoles and evangelising gaming on them.

Hmm I would say that to qualify as a "gaming PC" that graphics card ought to have a minimum cost of about £100, then I think we'd see a different picture...

You can get a LOT of Graphics Processing for $100

Like the Radeon 4850 for often less than $100 will play Unreal Tournament 3 (very common engine on PS3 + 360) at greater than 1080p (1920x1200) at 83 frames/sec with maxed out settings.

Xbox 360 playing UT3 and games with similar engine like Gears of War 2 manage only 720p and 24-30fps on equivalent of medium graphics settings.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1470/radeon_hd_4850_in_crossfire_at_4ghz/index9.html

So why set the "minimum" for a PC that must be literally 10x more powerful than typical games console before they will be considered fit for gaming?

Because anyone building a "gaming" PC will spend that on a card, at least. We're not talking about counting the number of PC's capable of gaming here, we're talking about the number of PCs that were sold/built specifically with gaming in mind.

"We're not talking about counting the number of PC's capable of gaming here"

Says who? Not the subject of this survey, and even if only you are saying that, isn't that a bit arbitrary?

Just because a certain PC was built without specifically Gaming in mind, that doesn't mean they aren't capable of playing modern PC games with settings/performance at least on-par with what is seen on consoles.

Especially considering discrete graphics cards aren't even the norm for even even moderately priced desktop PCs anymore:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/discrete_fail_why_do_so_few_pcs_feature_graphics_cards

?The perception, it seems, in the marketplace, is that discrete graphics are only for gamers,? said Karabian.

See what I'm talking about.

 

[omega 616]

Isn't it funny? somebody even mentions PC gaming in the title of a thread and it turns into "PC's are the grand puba's of gaming, there power is simply unmatched by those pesky consoles".

Who gives a rats behind, if people think consoles are best why not be a smug git and not say a word, just think "those delusional fools". Be the bigger people, same for console player, just sit and think "ha, were better than them".

Will save us all alot of time and bother.

On topic. Every car with an engine is now a racing car! Trust me they are, no I won't tell you who my sources are, it's just a fact. So there!

Be the bigger people, same for console player, just sit and think "ha, we're better than them".

Isn't that a bit.. elitist? Exactly what PC gamers are continuously slandered with?

Why is it so unreasonable to inform (evangelise to?) other forum users they could easily have things much better? This is not bragging, this is trying to improve others and in a round about way aid help PC gaming by getting more people doing it.

All I can say is read my post again.

You only kind of got one side of my point, by kind of I mean your first line "Isn't that a bit.. elitist?" then you go on to say "Why is it so unreasonable to inform other forum users they could easily have things much better?" and your calling me elitist for saying can't we just get along like in the 60's.

I have had this argument with you before and I said the exact same thing before that I am saying now. While your basically saying PC gaming is the grand puba and everything else is inferior.

Basically, just no.

 

[Continuity]

"We're not talking about counting the number of PC's capable of gaming here"

Says who? Not the subject of this survey, and even if only you are saying that, isn't that a bit arbitrary?

Just because a certain PC was built without specifically Gaming in mind, that doesn't mean they aren't capable of playing modern PC games with settings/performance at least on-par with what is seen on consoles.

Oh COME ON.

If you're comparing sales to console sales then you should be comparing like with like, I.e. all consoles are bought as games machines but not all PC's are bought as games machines, so to get a meaningful comparison between the two sets of sales you try to refine the PC sales figures down to just those that are being bought as games machines.

Yes many PC's that aren't bought for gaming can actually game, but that is completely irrelevant when trying to compare gaming platform sales, because if you're not gaming on it then it may as well be a toaster.

Especially considering discrete graphics cards aren't even the norm for even even moderately priced desktop PCs anymore:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/discrete_fail_why_do_so_few_pcs_feature_graphics_cards

?The perception, it seems, in the marketplace, is that discrete graphics are only for gamers,? said Karabian.

See what I'm talking about.

Well that's fair enough, that makes sense but it didn't really occur to me, too many years building PCs for myself, friends, and family that all have discrete cards in.
Even so, there are people who will buy a high end PC and then just use the internet on it... I have a friend with a core 2 duo and a x1900XT and which he's had for years now and much to my annoyance he's never played a game on it.

Edit:

I guess a good way to find out what sort of spec's people are actually gaming on would be to look at the latest steam survey. But I guess that won't capture WoW gaming etc.. which will probably be on fairly skanky machines in the large part.

 

[Treblaine]

"We're not talking about counting the number of PC's capable of gaming here"

Says who? Not the subject of this survey, and even if only you are saying that, isn't that a bit arbitrary?

Just because a certain PC was built without specifically Gaming in mind, that doesn't mean they aren't capable of playing modern PC games with settings/performance at least on-par with what is seen on consoles.

Oh COME ON.

If you're comparing sales to console sales then you should be comparing like with like, I.e. all consoles are bought as games machines but not all PC's are bought as games machines, so to get a meaningful comparison between the two sets of sales you try to refine the PC sales figures down to just those that are being bought as games machines.

Yes many PC's that aren't bought for gaming can actually game, but that is completely irrelevant when trying to compare gaming platform sales, because if you're not gaming on it then it may as well be a toaster.

Especially considering discrete graphics cards aren't even the norm for even even moderately priced desktop PCs anymore:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/discrete_fail_why_do_so_few_pcs_feature_graphics_cards

?The perception, it seems, in the marketplace, is that discrete graphics are only for gamers,? said Karabian.

See what I'm talking about.

Well that's fair enough, that makes sense but it didn't really occur to me, too many years building PCs for myself, friends, and family that all have discrete cards in.
Even so, there are people who will buy a high end PC and then just use the internet on it... I have a friend with a core 2 duo and a x1900XT and which he's had for years now and much to my annoyance he's never played a game on it.

Edit:

I guess a good way to find out what sort of spec's people are actually gaming on would be to look at the latest steam survey. But I guess that won't capture WoW gaming etc.. which will probably be on fairly skanky machines in the large part.

Well... how many times have you heard of people who did something like buy a Wii and never play any games for it? The point is there are 75 million Wii consoles out there, that is a huge market and worth making games for it. Just because many people neglect their systems doesn't meant there isn't potential for market capitalisation. Why are they not buying? Why are they not playing?

The problem with a Steam Survey is that it is just people on one gaming network and is self selecting. What is interesting is all the people like your friend who have the capability but he isn't buying anything so they wouldn't have Steam.

I think the factor here is that the internet ITSELF is entertainment enough with idle casual games but mainly an endless supply of information, communication, Facebook, music, pictures, movies, podcasts, TV shows, indy sketches, parody reviews, auto-tune the news... it's addictive, no one wants to leave it until they have burned out on information and sensory overload.

The capitalisation is how to use the web experience itself as a launching off point for PC gaming that utilises all the hardware available from dedicated graphics, HDD install and so on. Or something like that. Maybe Buy games directly from steam webpage but the program needs to constantly refer back to the web-page to keep running. If they want it with less strings attached then get Steam Client for free.

If Steam could get into Facebook... now THAT would be a revolution. Half a Billion users and growing, and an ingeniously constructed environment to sell increasingly complex games to a mass audience. If Steam could BECOME something like facebook! This is the future. The market IS there.

 

[Treblaine]

All I can say is read my post again.

You only kind of got one side of my point, by kind of I mean your first line "Isn't that a bit.. elitist?" then you go on to say "Why is it so unreasonable to inform other forum users they could easily have things much better?" and your calling me elitist for saying can't we just get along like in the 60's.

I have had this argument with you before and I said the exact same thing before that I am saying now. While your basically saying PC gaming is the grand puba and everything else is inferior.

Basically, just no.

So us PC gamers are either Elitist bourgeoisie gits or socialist hippie gits... no winning here.

"While your basically saying PC gaming is the grand puba and everything else is inferior."

Kinda... yeah! This may come as a shock yo you but I ddd..

diiiis

I Diiiisss - I Disagree with you!

Live with it, not everyone is going to have the exact same views as you.

But your cutting conclusion on the "revelation" that pc gaming is pretty good:

"Basically, just no."

That's a troll response. Give some bloody reasons for that other than it's not good at split-screen multipalyer.

PC gaming is better from a technical, artistic and wider economic perspective for gamers. I know you like console gaming and I wouldn't like to see console gaming go away either but you seem to be dead set against PC gaming and if you don't think it is superior, you are heavily implying it is inferior but don't seem to have the guts to just out and say it as you may actually have to give some solid reasons in that case.

 

[omega 616]

So us PC gamers are either Elitist bourgeoisie gits or socialist hippie gits... no winning here.

"While your basically saying PC gaming is the grand puba and everything else is inferior."

Kinda... yeah! This may come as a shock yo you but I ddd..

diiiis

I Diiiisss - I Disagree with you!

Live with it, not everyone is going to have the exact same views as you.

But your cutting conclusion on the "revelation" that pc gaming is pretty good:

"Basically, just no."

That's a troll response. Give some bloody reasons for that other than it's not good at split-screen multipalyer.

PC gaming is better from a technical, artistic and wider economic perspective for gamers. I know you like console gaming and I wouldn't like to see console gaming go away either but you seem to be dead set against PC gaming and if you don't think it is superior, you are heavily implying it is inferior but don't seem to have the guts to just out and say it as you may actually have to give some solid reasons in that case.

No, I am saying from what I have seen from the majority of PC gamers on this site is "PC is better end of".

Thats like saying a buggati vayron is better than a ford fiesta, while it can make the fiesta look like it's standing still, it eats a fuck tonne of fuel on the way, so the fiesta is better on the fuel.

See were I am going with this?

Just so you know there is no "either" you all come across with the arrogant tone. (bet you pick up on the generalization and comment on it).

(I am not quoting you here ... honest!)

This may come as a shock you but I ddd..

diiiis

I Diiiisss - I Disagree with you!

Live with it, not everyone is going to have the exact same views as you.

I am dead set against pc gaming? How do you know this? 'cos I think your speaking to the wrong person I have casually been playing PC games for years, in fact I have just clocked about 10 or so hours playing TF2 (not in one go).

I like PC gaming, RTS for example ... any dev or who ever thinks putting an RTS on console should be hung, drawn and quartered, while being burnt.

You can't think something is okay these days, everything is either black or white? You either think it's the best or shit? What kind of bollocks is that? What happened to "meh, it's ok"?

I actually don't think consoles are "the shit" either, both have flaws, you seemingly can't recognize the PC's though.

Edit. When did property values come into the discussion?

 

[Treblaine]

No, I am saying from what I have seen from the majority of PC gamers on this site is "PC is better end of".

Thats like saying a buggati vayron is better than a ford fiesta, while it can make the fiesta look like it's standing still, it eats a fuck tonne of fuel on the way, so the fiesta is better on the fuel.

See were I am going with this?

Just so you know there is no "either" you all come across with the arrogant tone. (bet you pick up on the generalization and comment on it).

(I am not quoting you here ... honest!)

"This may come as a shock you but I ddd..

diiiis

I Diiiisss - I Disagree with you!

Live with it, not everyone is going to have the exact same views as you."

I am dead set against pc gaming? How do you know this? 'cos I think your speaking to the wrong person I have casually been playing PC games for years, in fact I have just clocked about 10 or so hours playing TF2 (not in one go).

I like PC gaming, RTS for example ... any dev or who ever thinks putting an RTS on console should be hung, drawn and quartered, while being burnt.

You can't think something is okay these days, everything is either black or white? You either think it's the best or shit? What kind of bollocks is that? What happened to "meh, it's ok"?

I actually don't think consoles are "the shit" either, both have flaws, you seemingly can't recognize the PC's though.

Edit. When did property values come into the discussion? You tell me, I don't remember mentioning value or property in this thread

You seem to dispute that PC is better for most games. What exactly are you trying to say?

"You either think it's the best or shit?"

No. Just overwhelmingly better. Consoles are generally worst off but not quite "shit". You can plug a gamepad into PC and use that for games that need it, but can almost never use Mouse + KB with consoles. Higher settings, higher performance, more customisation, more control, cheaper games, etc, etc. What is inferior?

"I am dead set against pc gaming? How do you know this?"

I Never said that about you. You said:

"your basically saying PC gaming is the grand puba and everything else is inferior.
Basically, just no."

And I disagreed with your clear insinuation that PC gaming is NOT great. So many double and triple negatives here lets end this quote fisking here as I hope I have cleared it up.

There is a whole load of misunderstanding with PC and misconceptions about PC gaming, a lot of it borne out of people jumping to conclusions, making sweeping generalisations and holding outdated assumptions. I still maintain that PC is the best option for gaming but you don't seem to want to actually consider the argument there. You hold some strong opinions but if you refuse to justify them and offer no greater counter argument than "Basically, just no", what can I do?

You don't seem to think the PC is very good at some things, but what?

My problem is you don't seems to want to discuss specifics and even aspects of gaming on different platforms, but rather broad philosophical ideas like "you think everything is black and white" and "you can't just accept things as okay". Well thanks buddy, I guess you have known me all my life to come to that conclusion, I'd accept a critique of an argument I have made rather than personal accusations.

 

[omega 616]

No, I am saying from what I have seen from the majority of PC gamers on this site is "PC is better end of".

Thats like saying a buggati vayron is better than a ford fiesta, while it can make the fiesta look like it's standing still, it eats a fuck tonne of fuel on the way, so the fiesta is better on the fuel.

See were I am going with this?

Just so you know there is no "either" you all come across with the arrogant tone. (bet you pick up on the generalization and comment on it).

(I am not quoting you here ... honest!)

"This may come as a shock you but I ddd..

diiiis

I Diiiisss - I Disagree with you!

Live with it, not everyone is going to have the exact same views as you."

I am dead set against pc gaming? How do you know this? 'cos I think your speaking to the wrong person I have casually been playing PC games for years, in fact I have just clocked about 10 or so hours playing TF2 (not in one go).

I like PC gaming, RTS for example ... any dev or who ever thinks putting an RTS on console should be hung, drawn and quartered, while being burnt.

You can't think something is okay these days, everything is either black or white? You either think it's the best or shit? What kind of bollocks is that? What happened to "meh, it's ok"?

I actually don't think consoles are "the shit" either, both have flaws, you seemingly can't recognize the PC's though.

Edit. When did property values come into the discussion? You tell me, I don't remember mentioning value or property in this thread

You seem to dispute that PC is better for most games. What exactly are you trying to say?

"You either think it's the best or shit?"

No. Just overwhelmingly better. Consoles are generally worst off but not quite "shit". You can plug a gamepad into PC and use that for games that need it, but can almost never use Mouse + KB with consoles. Higher settings, higher performance, more customisation, more control, cheaper games, etc, etc. What is inferior?

"I am dead set against pc gaming? How do you know this?"

I Never said that about you. You said:

"your basically saying PC gaming is the grand puba and everything else is inferior.
Basically, just no."

And I disagreed with your clear insinuation that PC gaming is NOT great. So many double and triple negatives here lets end this quote fisking here as I hope I have cleared it up.

There is a whole load of misunderstanding with PC and misconceptions about PC gaming, a lot of it borne out of people jumping to conclusions, making sweeping generalisations and holding outdated assumptions. I still maintain that PC is the best option for gaming but you don't seem to want to actually consider the argument there. You hold some strong opinions but if you refuse to justify them and offer no greater counter argument than "Basically, just no", what can I do?

You don't seem to think the PC is very good at some things, but what?

My problem is you don't seems to want to discuss specifics and even aspects of gaming on different platforms, but rather broad philosophical ideas like "you think everything is black and white" and "you can't just accept things as okay". Well thanks buddy, I guess you have known me all my life to come to that conclusion, I'd accept a critique of an argument I have made rather than personal accusations.

You have a alot of double standards that I can never hope to achieve, so I am going to stop quoting and replying to this asinine discussion I think both are okay.

Pc gaming is the same as console gaming. You have your hands in a different position but other than there the same.

 

[omega 616]

Pc gaming is the same as console gaming. You have your hands in a different position but other than there the same.

No, not at all. The overall performance is way better, but it's not like the game mechanics or anything like that are different. The engine's just have way more hardware power at their disposal, which they utilize quite well (99.9% of the time anyway, there are examples of games designed entirely with consoles in mind), and it really does show.

And, as was pointed out above, you can have your hands positioned in the exact same fashion as you would on console, if you so desired. PC simply enjoys the added option of M+K support on everything.

Is a buggati vayron and a ford fiesta the exact same ... yes, they both use an engine, both use petrol, both have seats, both wheels blah blah blah, one is more powerful than the other but so what? They still get you from point A to point B.

In the same way a console and a PC let you play games.

 

[Treblaine]

You have a alot of double standards that I can never hope to achieve, so I am going to stop quoting and replying to this asinine discussion I think both are okay.

Pc gaming is the same as console gaming. You have your hands in a different position but other than there the same.

I don't know if that you lying, being ignorant or you are simply deluded by your ideals that is not true.

Console and PC gaming are hugely different and a LOT of people care greatly about that distinction. The difference between 30fps and 60fps REALLY IS significant for how a game FEELS. When you are sitting 2-3 feet from a 20+ inch screen, the difference between 720p and 1920x1200 is blazingly obvious. The list goes on.