PCGA: Twice as many "Gaming" PCs sold than consoles combined in 2009

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omega 616

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May 1, 2009
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Treblaine said:
omega 616 said:
You have a alot of double standards that I can never hope to achieve, so I am going to stop quoting and replying to this asinine discussion I think both are okay.

Pc gaming is the same as console gaming. You have your hands in a different position but other than there the same.
I don't know if that you lying, being ignorant or you are simply deluded by your ideals that is not true.

Console and PC gaming are hugely different and a LOT of people care greatly about that distinction. The difference between 30fps and 60fps REALLY IS significant for how a game FEELS. When you are sitting 2-3 feet from a 20+ inch screen, the difference between 720p and 1920x1200 is blazingly obvious. The list goes on.
To be perfectly honest, I don't notice the difference ... although that might be down the fact I have no idea what any of my games play in.

I do have to hand it to you though you are funny, you take this waaay too seriously.

Your going into detail nit picking the differences between consoles and PC's, I am saying what they are ... things to play games on.

I don't notice how many frames have passed in the last second, how many hrtz my screen is, how highly defined my trees are, how accurately I can shoot somebodies nipple at 400 feet, how many millionths of a second my mouse and aim correspond ... life is far too short for that stuff.

Do they both play games? Yes, so there equal.

If you want to believe PC gaming is so high and mighty then so be it. The fact you are so against them being considered the same makes me feel a little sorry for you, don't you have bigger issues to worry about, than peoples choices for gaming?

Maybe I should be happy for you that the only problem in your life is gaming platforms, who knows.
 

RatRace123

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Yeah, those statistics seem skewed. It seems like they only want to make PC gaming seem superior. Must we always fight amongst ourselves? It would appear so... Both have their pros and cons, neither one is inherently better. PCs need to be upgraded more often, incredible copying security measures, viruses... Consoles have inferior graphics (they can get pretty good, but not up to Crysis levels), some consoles have terrible track records with breaking down, certain types of games are still awkward to play on consoles... Both good and bad.

Oh well. Let the flame war continue!
 

Treblaine

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omega 616 said:
Do they both play games? Yes, so there equal.
That's dumb. It's like saying everyone who competes in a competition is a winner.

Game developers have spent a huge amount of their time, effort and talent making games the way they are only you just don't seem to care about any of that, it's as if you are tone deaf to the artistic and technical achievements made for your benefit.

You also seem to be blind to most of the things I read. I say framerate affects how a game FEELS then you say you won't bother counting frames. You are making fallacious straw man arguments. Stop this nonsense.
 

Treblaine

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Mornelithe said:
All statistics are skewed, it's why NPD is pretty much worthless. If you can't track actual sales data, and not just retail (IE online purchases, used games, ebay etc...), then your numbers are worthless.
Wait.. NPD doesn't track online purchases? You mean like through amazon.com??!?! Or just not download games.

If so that's crazy, sorry to call you out but do you have a source. I know most PC gamers if they ever buy a disc-copy of a game then it's ordered online where you can normally find the best deals.
 

Fire Daemon

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Dec 18, 2007
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212.6 gaming PCs sounds a bit strange when most game sales are no where in the region. Starcraft 2 is set to sell 6.5 copies by the end of the year, Half-Life 2 is one of the most popular PC games but I'd think it a stretch to put it at more than 10 million units sold, WoW has around 12 million subscribers right now and I think that if you want to be generous 20 million bought the game in total over the past six years. There's no doubt that PC gaming is a strong platform but to get a better look at how strong it is the PCGA should be looking at games sales rather than software sales.

That works in the reverse as well because people may buy a cheaper PC with lower end specs and just focus on older games, like myself, while still being a PC gamer. And what about Farmville and other browser based games like that. Theose people are still technically PC gamers (as they are playing games on their PC are they not?) and there are millions of them, surely they would have to be accounted for.
 

Cheesepower5

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I'm going to speak as someone who realises PC is a lot better POTENTIALLY for gaming but... I MUCH prefer the games that exist on consoles. PC has some gems, but...

Honestly? How many games really need the advantages PC has? WoW and some non-existant "What Consoles Will Look Like in Ten Years" simulator.
 

Treblaine

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Mornelithe said:
Treblaine said:
Mornelithe said:
All statistics are skewed, it's why NPD is pretty much worthless. If you can't track actual sales data, and not just retail (IE online purchases, used games, ebay etc...), then your numbers are worthless.
Wait.. NPD doesn't track online purchases? You mean like through amazon.com??!?! Or just not download games.

If so that's crazy, sorry to call you out but do you have a source. I know most PC gamers if they ever buy a disc-copy of a game then it's ordered online where you can normally find the best deals.
My mistake, it looks like they started recently:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/07/22/npd-now-tracks-pc-game-digital-downloads-finds-that-they-make-up-nearly-50-percent-of-all-sales/

For a long time, they were only reporting retail for PC statistics.
And they only seem to have bothered counting digital sales as of last month, to think they stopped publishing the few PC sales they actually counted back in 2007.

Most Disappointed is how so many sites covered "modern Warfare 2 selling bad on PC" well there are a lot of reasons for that:
-Both Retail and DL versions were hugely overpriced by as much as 50% of normal, costing as much or more than consoles titles. Console games subsidise the loss-leading hardware, that price is not as tolerated on PC.
-Surprise revelations just short of release of broken promises and neutered features made MW2 worth less than COD4 to many PC gamers!
-Habit of delaying DLC to PC (also PS3)
-major PC releases at the same time like Left 4 Dead 2
-Download Retail is completely ignored.

According to Amazon.com Modern Warfare 2 sold about 30% as many for PC compared to PS3 but if digital distribution is similarly influenced then that percentage could be as high as 43% (compared to PS3) and could have been much higher had Activision not fucked around so much. In that case, considering Activision's price gouging, to spite lower sales MW2 on PC probably earned Activision just as much for them as the PS3 version.
 

omega 616

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May 1, 2009
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Mornelithe said:
Without meaning to throw a petulant argument at you, so what? Do you appreciate how you breathe? How a car works? How a tree photosynthesizes? Doubt it and even if you have, do you still?

I appreciate them at first but if you watch an amazing film 500 times it gets old, same applies here, it gets old.

Mornelithe said:
Your kind of missing my point, to me your being picky. To me both do exactly the same thing, play games, surf the net (I don't know about the 360 though), play movies, blah blah.

I don't mod games, I don't even know any games that interact with you and itself ... crysis, maybe?

So while you guys say there is a massive difference, to me there isn't one.

Also, there are no after market parts for a veyron 'cos everything on it matters. The wing mirrors have to be that exact shape or the car will be uncontrollable at speed (due to the front end being lighter due to down force) and who wants to make a car go more than 260 odd miles an hour? Thats about 3 football pitches a second, it empties a full tank in something like 19 mins.
 

omega 616

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Treblaine said:
omega 616 said:
Do they both play games? Yes, so there equal.
That's dumb. It's like saying everyone who competes in a competition is a winner.

Game developers have spent a huge amount of their time, effort and talent making games the way they are only you just don't seem to care about any of that, it's as if you are tone deaf to the artistic and technical achievements made for your benefit.

You also seem to be blind to most of the things I read. I say framerate affects how a game FEELS then you say you won't bother counting frames. You are making fallacious straw man arguments. Stop this nonsense.
Oops, missed you.

No, it's like saying every person in a competition is a competitor.

So are you, I bet even if at first you think "holy shit look at that" or "wow, thats awesome" you will only think it for the first 10 or so times.

I seem blind to the things I read? I am obviously not that blind.

Anyway, I can honestly say frame rate has effected the feel of a game for me ... you must be really sensitive to it.
 

Treblaine

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MaxPowers666 said:
lol? 720p isnt to small for gameplay unless your sitting 1ft from the screen. You only need more if your some kind of insane "hardcore" gamer who doesnt leave his computer chair and nerd rages everytime he dies in mw2. You say its more immersive I say its far more immersive to be sitting on a comfortable couch with a large screen then an uncomfortable chair stairing at a screen 1ft away and burning my retinas out.
Burn your retinas? Utterly unfounded nonsense. And why not compare a comfortable chair with a comfortable couch? There are cheap+shitty desk chairs and then there are comfortable leather high-shoulder ones, also vica-versa for couches some aren't much better than a particularly mossy park bench.

MaxPowers666 said:
Im curious why do you need to jack up the fps when you cant actually tell the difference past 30fps. I could show you a game running at 30fps and another at 100fps and you wouldnt actually be able to tell the difference between the two. Console standards are far more then borderline acceptable infact that are actually perfectly acceptable and nothing is wrong with them.
UGGGG!!! WHY!?!?! I say "feel" and you say "look". You are using a textbook example of a straw man argument.

SHOWING a game is no different from a video footage which is NOT responding to your input, a high framerate is VITAL for games that respond to your input, even more so with games that have a fast panning camera like with mouse-look/aim. (any video played in a flash player like of a web browser can ONLY be played back at 30 fps, no matter how higher the frame-rate of the source is)

24 fps and 30fps in fact very often is NOT adequate as the problem with "judder" is entirely down to the low frame rate makes high speed motion impossible discern. That's why the Jason Bourne fight scenes seem such a mess as martial arts moves that'd be easy to see with your eyes at 24-30fps it's a blur or judder. 24-30fps is only good for a very fixed camera with slow moving entities. Panning shots must be either extremely slow or carefully formulated (deliberate blurring) to prevent the appearance of judder... not practical in a video game depending on fast recognition and precise timing.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP169.pdf

It is a myth that just because cinemas play film at 24-frames/sec and video at 30-fps then that is therefore the benchmark for "illusion of motion".

MaxPowers666 said:
It is impossible to determine the number of PC gamers out there or pcs purchased for gaming. It doesnt matter what you use as a minimum because the majority of people who buy new pcs that are above any specs you set would not be gamers. They would just be people who like expensive things to check their email on.
Oh no it is very possible. You seem to have skipped through most of this thread without reading it as this has already been discussed. See this one:
Treblaine said:
^^^ click that name "Treblaine", above for source on discrete graphics cards relevance to gaming^^^
...

MaxPowers666 said:
It just makes you all seem like uptight assholes who think they are better then everybody else because they spend more money on their hobby... I mean hell id be pretty pissed off if I took your advise and spent a shit load of money on an inferior way of gaming like your telling us to.
No, I think you are simply jealous and of course your going to call someone you're jealous of as an "uptight assholes", that is a meaningless insult that only reveals YOUR prejudice and dissonance. It is NOT about more money, PC may costs a bit more than a console (bout $150 more) but a Comp Monitor costs a hell of a lot less than a HDTV. How can you make this a matter of money and privilege when apart from the console EVERYTHING cost way more with console gaming: the screen, subscriptions, the games, the peripherals, etc
If you really think a decent gaming PC costs around $2'000 you are again just being ignorant if not delusional as this has been repeatedly and conclusively refuted.

Can you even CONSIDER that PC might be better? Could you even contemplate it hypothetically? You seem so reluctant to look at this objectively, so against viewing from the opposing point of view... you are not discussing or even debating, you are merely making fallacious rationalisations.

You have failed to extol the benefits of console gaming over PC (and there are some) only to crudely undermine the well established and widely accepted advantages of PC gaming.
 

Treblaine

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MaxPowers666 said:
Because after spending about 5 hours looking for a new computer chair for work iv descovered that you just cant relax in one, they arnt comfortable.

...

Nomatter what you say its impossible to get an anywhere near accurate number. I know dozens of people who got computers some custom built that would blow nearly ever person on heres just to check their email or do their bookkeeping.

...

I got my ps3 about a year after launch and im down the purchase price, probably less when you take into account the money I made from selling used games. I go through about 5-10 games a year and guess what it costs me nothing at all. Between renting games and buying/selling on ebay/amazon and a local store I make back all my money I spend on games and still have a 30+ collection of ps3 games.

...

The most recent example would be bioshock 2, i got brand new copies (How many?) for $17 I can sell that for more money pretty much anywhere I go. I dont pay subscriptions, my games are a hell of alot cheaper for me, peripherals unless your talking a mic its still cheaper then pc ones. As for the screen yes my tv was expensive, it gets used for gaming mabey 10% of the time and its something that everybody can enjoy not just me. So nothing about consoles is more expensive for me except the launch price when compared to a dirt dirt cheap pc, and that difference is very easy to make back.

...

The ONLY benefit PC gaming has is when your playing RTS or MMORPGs.
Well you are ignoring my point again. Of course you are uncomfortable in your cheap office chair, it IS a cheap office chair. A $600 on a couch vs a $60 desk chair, which do you think will be more comfortable. It doesn't have to survive 5-hour gaming sessions, my god man this is entertainment, a hobby, not work.

"I know dozens of people who got computers some custom built that would blow nearly ever person on heres just to check their email or do their bookkeeping."

I don't believe you. I think you are exaggerating or MASSIVELY misunderstand what kind of PCs they actually have and what they actually use them for. I'd like you to name (if on this site) them so I can ask them myself. For example, the distinction between a hugely powerful Core i7 based PC with 4GB of DDR3 memory... but no discrete graphics, and someone who went to the expense of getting one with a discrete graphics card for gaming...

... which is what this study counts.

Why are you obsessed with "accuracy" when it is irrelevant. Gaming CAPABLE computers have outsold ALL consoles by a factor of two. There could be an 70% error and that is still a far larger market than Xbox 360 or Playstation 3.

That is NOT a strategy of bulk buying cheap copies of Bioshock 2 and selling them on... that is a particularly unscrupulous business. Where are you buying games in bulk so cheap and are you selling them as new? Hell EVEN A PC GAMER could do that, you don't need a PS3, just the source to buy the games cheap and a platform to sell them at a mark up price.

I used to ply the games flogging scene and I hated it. You searched for a good price for a game new but to get even a small fraction of the cost back you had to re-sell it so soon. Where is your passions for gaming? Do you see games as mere consumables? I have amassed a large games collection and I love to browse through a disc-folder to return to my favourites to play one more time. Can't really do that if you're re-selling and renting your games!

I get through about 24 to 30 games per year on PC and I don't have to go through the bullshit of re-selling them. I buy them for pittance and keep them FOREVER. Especially from those glorious Steam sales.

Your comparison is NOT equal; PC keeping games against Console's transient ownership model dependent on being a savvy businessman. Oh, and $10 to $15 DLC, that sounds fun. It's usually free on PC, AAA games more often go that cheap.

Have you not considered the benefit of PC's mouse-aim with First or Third person shooters? Remember, the PC pioneered these genres. Consoles are utterly dependant on aim-assist and still is no where close to what's typically capable with mouse.

Remember you can plug a gamepad into a PC if needed, but not a Mouse +KB into a console (not for more than 2 or 3 games at least and those mouse-to-gamepad adapters NEVER work). And the sheer number of keys on a keyboard allows such flexibility, it's ideal for classic style 2D side-scrolling games and fighting games like Street Fighter IV. Then PC's specialization in joysticks, racing wheels and so on, make it great for racing and flying games.

There is virtually nothing consoles can do that PC can't do better. I know this, you don't.

;D