Penny Arcade on The Witcher 2

[Katana314]

The game did nothing wrong, people these days are just too damn lazy to take a few minutes and read.

For a solid decade now pretty much every game in existence either has a regular tutorial or practice mode, or the first level or two is about teaching the player the mechanics of the game. Even reading a manual just isn't good enough, nor is it particularly fun for most people. Why NOT have the tutorial on how to play the game be IN the game? Most especially for people who've never played this type of game before but want to get into it?

NOT including this kind of instruction to the player is what's lazy, and just bad game design, don't make excuses just because you're a fan.

For the record: I'm enjoying the Witcher 2's difficulty myself, its been a while since I had a good challenge. They just started off on the very wrong foot.

The game DOES have a tutorial, it's just it can be a particularly difficult one. Seriously, reading the manual or checking the in game journal is not difficult and takes no time at all. If people find it such an inconvenience to RTFM while the game is installing, then that's just being lazy, period.

I thought at the very least PC gamers would be wise enough with this kind of nonsense. The manual is there as a heads up for the player, use it people.

As an exclusive PC gamer.....no.

This opinion comes mostly from me learning how best to teach people; in a game, or in a classroom, and I'll simply say that textbook reading gets people nowhere fast. They have no mental conception of the world or room for experimentation with it.

In the old days of PC gaming, manuals worked simply because people were willing to invest time in it, but they're not necessary now that our tutorials are smart enough to work with the player through a particularly easy learning part of the game. You know; the standard "crouch under the low barrier to learn the Crouch button" and stuff.

You don't even see manuals come with most software nowadays. Internet Explorer 9? Digsby? Skype? No one's expecting you to open a seperate document to learn everything; normally a load of tooltips on first-run will try to explain things, and ensure they are directly intuitive to you.

 

[M4A1Sopmod]

I didn't have a very difficult time at all with the tutorial. I let my comrades do most of the work and only died a handful of times. I was playing it on normal the first time through, but since then I beat the game and restarted it on hard. On hard I only died once and only because I missed a QTE.

 

[Elamdri]

The comic was somewhat amusing, but to me it also pointed out something wrong with players these days. They expect everything handed to them in some tutorial, and god forbid you read the manual or pull up the in game journal that tells you everything you need to know. The game wasn't that difficult to figure out...at all. In the time it takes you to download/install the game, you could read the manual and already have a firm understanding of the controls, combat, powers and all the stuff.

I really don't like to come off as some snob or douche, but a lot of complaints in regards to this crap can be easily resolved by taking a few minutes and reading the damn instructions. The manual by extension, is the tutorial in written form, so USE IT.

The manual =/= a tutorial. There is only so much that you can convey via text. For example, it's one thing to tell the player to press B to dodge, and another thing entirely to tell the player to press B to dodge while they use it for the first time against enemies that are slow to telegraph their attacks to help the player learn. Most learning is done by doing, not reading.

 

[-Seraph-]

The comic was somewhat amusing, but to me it also pointed out something wrong with players these days. They expect everything handed to them in some tutorial, and god forbid you read the manual or pull up the in game journal that tells you everything you need to know. The game wasn't that difficult to figure out...at all. In the time it takes you to download/install the game, you could read the manual and already have a firm understanding of the controls, combat, powers and all the stuff.

I really don't like to come off as some snob or douche, but a lot of complaints in regards to this crap can be easily resolved by taking a few minutes and reading the damn instructions. The manual by extension, is the tutorial in written form, so USE IT.

The manual =/= a tutorial. There is only so much that you can convey via text. For example, it's one thing to tell the player to press B to dodge, and another thing entirely to tell the player to press B to dodge while they use it for the first time against enemies that are slow to telegraph their attacks to help the player learn. Most learning is done by doing, not reading.

No..that crap is easily implied and should be intuitive. The manual is tutorial in written form, if you fail to put its advice to proper use, it's your own fault. You should know to dodge when you see an enemy try to take a swing at you, you don't need extensive tutorial to teach you this stuff. You can easily learn what to do by reading the manual, you can't equate learning video game mechanics with school work like so many people are foolishly doing.

 

[bluepotatosack]

I died a bunch of times trying to get to the arbalest. Then I eventually noticed that patch of ground that gives you a five minute stat boost. The rest of the tutorial I didn't have any problems with.

Not what I would call an easy game, though.

 

[Enkidu88]

That's why I use cheats. I love the RPG elements, the story and characters, but I still get my ass kicked by the game's combat mechanics. I didn't pay 60$ to pull my own hair out in frustration

 

[cainx10a]

That's why I use cheats. I love the RPG elements, the story and characters, but I still get my ass kicked by the game's combat mechanics. I didn't pay 60$ to pull my own hair out in frustration

That's why you play on Easy! Same as I am doing right now

 

[Elamdri]

No..that crap is easily implied and should be intuitive. The manual is tutorial in written form, if you fail to put its advice to proper use, it's your own fault. You should know to dodge when you see an enemy try to take a swing at you, you don't need extensive tutorial to teach you this stuff. You can easily learn what to do by reading the manual, you can't equate learning video game mechanics with school work like so many people are foolishly doing.

I really couldn't disagree with you more. Not only are manuals NOT tutorials, but they're 100% inferior to tutorials. A manual is a repository for information; it can't teach you how to play the game.

Take the training course from COD: MW2. Yes, I could go through the manual and read what each button does, but just knowing what the button does is not the same thing as allowing the player to get a feel for how those functions work in an environment that won't punish them for failure. Telling me that the left shoulder button tosses a grenade doesn't let me figure out how far the grenade flies, what the damage radius is, yadda yadda. Telling me that I can release and re-pull the aim trigger to snap to a new target is fine, but until I see it in action, I don't have a way of appreciating how that functions.

The tutorial offers a way for the player to experiment and get their bearings in a game in a non-hostile environment. Just throwing the player right into the game and trusting them to read the manual is not only discouraging to new players, but it's lazy and sloppy game design.

 

[Hyper-space]

Demons Soul is a hard game, Witcher 2 is just hilariously incompetent when it comes to introducing gameplay elements. "Hey! instead of telling the player beforehand what button is used to dodge, how about we tell him that the exact moment that he needs to know which button to press?", great job!

Its not a tutorial if you have to die several times just to be able to read the tool-tips. Also, is anyone else getting a horrible frame-rate? i am on a pretty decent rig and despite playing on a low-setting i still cannot turn around or even move without everything grinding to a halt.

 

[Altorin]

The comic was somewhat amusing, but to me it also pointed out something wrong with players these days. They expect everything handed to them in some tutorial, and god forbid you read the manual or pull up the in game journal that tells you everything you need to know. The game wasn't that difficult to figure out...at all. In the time it takes you to download/install the game, you could read the manual and already have a firm understanding of the controls, combat, powers and all the stuff.

I really don't like to come off as some snob or douche, but a lot of complaints in regards to this crap can be easily resolved by taking a few minutes and reading the damn instructions. The manual by extension, is the tutorial in written form, so USE IT.

that's... sort of what a tutorial is for. It's there to... tutor you, in how to play the game. If you're going to have a tutorial, teach the player how to play the game, don't just stand there and laugh at him as he fails.

 

[Candidus]

Pretty hilarious. I've never read Penny Arcade, but those guys have to be pretty awful...

I played the game on normal. My first death was to those giant beetles in the forest after the prologue, because they can move- and charge- right through each other like it's a bloody MMO.

The arbalest is simple for the same reason that all human opponents in the game are simple.

At that point in the game, you have the stamina to block twice. All foes swing for you the moment they come into range, so the trick is to whack on your chosen target until another one closes on you, switch to E and send them reeling, continue hitting your prior target, repeat, then switch to rolling until you have stamina enough to block again.

There. Finished.

edit: You `will` have to pan the camera towards your attacker and give the nearest movement key (relative to them) a tap before you block, because you won't have the trait allowing you to block incoming attacks from anywhere, but again, an average player should be able to pick that up before they get killed.

 

[Piorn]

I liked the first Witcher and played the hell out of it.
Naturally, when I got Witcher 2. I jumped right into the combat only to realize it has been completely changed and the group style had been removed, leaving me helpless and dying among the enemies. Add a little lag, and you got the perfect frustration material. I switched to easy, and the combat became annoying. I haven't played much since then.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Also, is anyone else getting a horrible frame-rate? i am on a pretty decent rig and despite playing on a low-setting i still cannot turn around or even move without everything grinding to a halt.

Nope, I've got all the settings jacked up to WTFBBQ and the game runs smooth as.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I liked the first Witcher and played the hell out of it.
Naturally, when I got Witcher 2. I jumped right into the combat only to realize it has been completely changed and the group style had been removed, leaving me helpless and dying among the enemies. Add a little lag, and you got the perfect frustration material. I switched to easy, and the combat became annoying. I haven't played much since then.

Group style is a talent, now ... just upgrades your attacks.
Although, you'd have to be level 10 or something before you can unlock it.

 

[Sterling|D-Reaver]

I haven't played it yet (my gaming computer died) but I've watched a lets play of the prologue and I thought it looked amazing, however I think much of their target audience are people who played the first game and are for the most part competent gamers. What they expect is that you will try it on your own first and if you fail once then you will try again, however if you continue to fail then you should realize it is not the game, it is you, and you should study your strategy or lack thereof. If this doesn't work then check outside sources for that illusive information.

And lets be honest, it a good thing that its punishing, it keeps the 12 year olds from the nudity and the last thing we need is some crazy people flipping out because they bought the game without reading the rating info and because of that there son saw boobies. . .

 

[ElectroJosh]

I am loving the Witcher 2 at the moment but the difficulty curve is above most games I have played recently (although the Penny Arcade guys died way more at one part of the intro than I did in that entire time - which is interesting in its self).

As I have said in another post though; I like this game because it goes in its own direction and isn't worried that it might not be for everybody. I have never found it too difficult (although I do die more than I do in most games).

 

[Irridium]

I'm a bit half and half on it. On one hand I applaud the game for not baby-ing you and forcing you to figure shit out for yourself.

On the other hand, the only reason I knew what the signs were was because I played the first game. They could have at least taught you what they do.

But yeah, most everything you can find out by looking things up in the in-game journal. Or the manual.