People don't give Avatar enough credit (James Cameron one)
- Thread starter Giantpanda602
- Start date
Recommended Videos
The movie was utterly beautiful and, unoriginal script or no, it absolutely does not deserve the hatred that it has generated. Especially if you compare to basically ever other movie out there. As far as I'm concerned, a movie that excels in even a single area (CGI and art direction in this case) is an absolute triumph compared to the bland, repetitive tripe that gets released on a near weekly basis. I can't help but feel that it's just "cool" to hate it because it's popular, which is sad. Hate is unwarranted and not the same as valid criticism. I have a ton of issues with Avatar, but I still love the film.
Also, I have to address the apparently "unoriginal" plot. Nothing is original. I can promise you that no one here can name a single film that has an original plot in any way. Every plot that you can think of contains elements that easily slot into a number of widely known conventions of story telling, the only thing that changes is the theme, the setting and the characters; basically how the plot is presented to the audience. A clever writer might play around with the order, or mix different conventions together to add "twists" or whathaveyou but ultimately everything can be boiled down to it's most basic elements and labelled accordingly.
It is an incredibly rare thing for a story to do something that is genuinely new. It's rarer still for this "new" thing to actually be any good. These common stories are common because they work and they have done for a long, long time.
My point is not that Avatar isn't the same as Pocahontas or dances with wolves, because it absolutely is, but to cite this as the reason that Avatar is bad and not also call out basically every other piece of storytelling ever is massively hypocritical.
What unobtainium actually does isn't important to the plot; the point is that it's rare and valuable enough for the humans to want to mount a full scale invasion of an alien civilization to obtain some. Murdering the locals and taking their resources is hardly new to our species and that's sort of the point of the film, only in a sci-fi setting with a suitably sci-fi sounding resource. The name "unobtainium" has been used for a long time by engineers to describe a theoretical material that is perfect for whatever their needs might be; it's quite a fitting name I think and is yet another one of the common complaints against the film that I think is completely unwarranted.
Also, I have to address the apparently "unoriginal" plot. Nothing is original. I can promise you that no one here can name a single film that has an original plot in any way. Every plot that you can think of contains elements that easily slot into a number of widely known conventions of story telling, the only thing that changes is the theme, the setting and the characters; basically how the plot is presented to the audience. A clever writer might play around with the order, or mix different conventions together to add "twists" or whathaveyou but ultimately everything can be boiled down to it's most basic elements and labelled accordingly.
It is an incredibly rare thing for a story to do something that is genuinely new. It's rarer still for this "new" thing to actually be any good. These common stories are common because they work and they have done for a long, long time.
My point is not that Avatar isn't the same as Pocahontas or dances with wolves, because it absolutely is, but to cite this as the reason that Avatar is bad and not also call out basically every other piece of storytelling ever is massively hypocritical.
What unobtainium actually does isn't important to the plot; the point is that it's rare and valuable enough for the humans to want to mount a full scale invasion of an alien civilization to obtain some. Murdering the locals and taking their resources is hardly new to our species and that's sort of the point of the film, only in a sci-fi setting with a suitably sci-fi sounding resource. The name "unobtainium" has been used for a long time by engineers to describe a theoretical material that is perfect for whatever their needs might be; it's quite a fitting name I think and is yet another one of the common complaints against the film that I think is completely unwarranted.
None of what I said above prevents me from agreeing with this with every fibre of my being.Freechoice said:
You need to go watch Redlettermedia's break down [http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/other-movies/avatar/] of this movie. He basically explains how just about every aspect of it was a weaponized form of like-ability. It's to the general public what "The King's Speech" was to the oscar people. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/2719-The-Kings-Speech]
It wasn't bad, but not so amazing people need to be setting up support groups to deal with the fact that its just fiction. Source [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLfJRP4Gte8]
edited: Fix'ed source
It wasn't bad, but not so amazing people need to be setting up support groups to deal with the fact that its just fiction. Source [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLfJRP4Gte8]
edited: Fix'ed source
Thinking that there was a point to the invasion that was proportional to the risk is something that should lead to me thinking it's better than it is?
Bullshit.
Bullshit.
i didn't think people could give it less credit. and on a side note i figured Unobtainium was used to fuel space crafts.
While I'm pretty sure you're joking, I'll link this anyway. When people compare the two movies, they are all borrowing their points from this (rather ingenious) image: http://www.thefunnyblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/avatar_pocahontas.jpg
That said, yea, avatar looked good, but the story was still shit. Why is that important? Because Hollywood is lazy, and if we don't demand good stories from them, we can't expect it from them. If all it takes to sell a movie is some real nice special FX without a good story behind it, then that's what they'll give us.
That said, yea, avatar looked good, but the story was still shit. Why is that important? Because Hollywood is lazy, and if we don't demand good stories from them, we can't expect it from them. If all it takes to sell a movie is some real nice special FX without a good story behind it, then that's what they'll give us.
I'm with ya on that, especially the friends who work at movie theaters, I am friends with the manager. (Ca-ching.) Though I do think there was ONE and ONLY ONE special thing about this movie. It was pretty. Pretty enough to get the raving it gets? Hell-fucking-no. Good movie? Hardly, wasn't god awful, but it wasn't GOOD either.Nova Helix said:
In real life we would've Agent Oranged the entire planet, grabbed enough sufficient genetic material to research and grow in controled environments, then bull-dozed and excavated the planet till there was nothing left.
Rinse and repeat with the next planet, ad infinitum. All hail the Imperium.
Rinse and repeat with the next planet, ad infinitum. All hail the Imperium.
I enjoyed Avatar. I just think that it could have been much better. Could have used some more detail and setup, the movie was asking me to accept too much without any explanation. There was definitely some room for a lot more intrigue and a much more engrossing characters. You actually bring up a flaw that they didn't explain what Unobtanium was or why the Humans cared so much about it- instead was basically a quick insert to explain their presence
On the whole, it was still a good film.
On the whole, it was still a good film.
My biggest problem is that it's so FUCKING AWFULLY WRITTEN.
Not only because it's just a compilation of every modern movie cliché. But also because the dialog suck, either the characters shove what they are thinking and feeling in the audience face, or they spout exposition.
They never feel like real people with genuine emotions since none of them talk like a human being.
Example from the movie:
SELFRIDGE: Look. You're supposed to be winning the hearts and minds of the natives. Isn't that the whole point of your little puppet show? If you walk like them, you talk like them, they'll trust you. We build them a school, teach them English. But after - how many years - the relations with the indigenous are only getting worse.
DR. GRACE AUGUSTINE: Yeah, well that tends to happen when you use machine guns on them.
SELFRIDGE: Right. C'mere. You see this?
[shows Grace the sample of Unobtanium on his desk]
SELFRIDGE: This is why we're here. Because this little gray rock sells for $20 million a kilo. That's the only reason. This is what pays for the whole party, and it's what pays for your science. Those savages are threatening our whole operation. We're on the brink of war and you're supposed to be finding me a diplomatic solution. So use what you've got, and get me some results.
I mean ouch.... That was painful...
Not only because it's just a compilation of every modern movie cliché. But also because the dialog suck, either the characters shove what they are thinking and feeling in the audience face, or they spout exposition.
They never feel like real people with genuine emotions since none of them talk like a human being.
Example from the movie:
SELFRIDGE: Look. You're supposed to be winning the hearts and minds of the natives. Isn't that the whole point of your little puppet show? If you walk like them, you talk like them, they'll trust you. We build them a school, teach them English. But after - how many years - the relations with the indigenous are only getting worse.
DR. GRACE AUGUSTINE: Yeah, well that tends to happen when you use machine guns on them.
SELFRIDGE: Right. C'mere. You see this?
[shows Grace the sample of Unobtanium on his desk]
SELFRIDGE: This is why we're here. Because this little gray rock sells for $20 million a kilo. That's the only reason. This is what pays for the whole party, and it's what pays for your science. Those savages are threatening our whole operation. We're on the brink of war and you're supposed to be finding me a diplomatic solution. So use what you've got, and get me some results.
I mean ouch.... That was painful...
Well if we're going with the Avatar=Pocahontas line of thinking, then Avatar's Unobtainium is congruent to Pocahontas's gold.
My big beef with the movie is the complete lack of political structure on both sides of the two warring faction. The human marines were just stepping all the hell over their own protocols without much sense of structure or rank(aka: whatever the plot demanded they do, they did), and the Na'vi were flawless. Even when the movie had the perfect opportunity to give them at least a modicum of political instability with the chieftain's daughter breaking the planned marriage, suddenly that was perfectly acceptable for everyone but the groom.
But, I mean, I it certainly LOOKED pretty.
My big beef with the movie is the complete lack of political structure on both sides of the two warring faction. The human marines were just stepping all the hell over their own protocols without much sense of structure or rank(aka: whatever the plot demanded they do, they did), and the Na'vi were flawless. Even when the movie had the perfect opportunity to give them at least a modicum of political instability with the chieftain's daughter breaking the planned marriage, suddenly that was perfectly acceptable for everyone but the groom.
But, I mean, I it certainly LOOKED pretty.
For one, the plot is "way too simular" to Dances with Wolves, and that's me putting it nicely.
Secondly, the majority of people who like Avatar claim to love James Cameron's films, but can't name any of them that don't involve 3d blue people. This doesn't reflect why Avatar is bad, but why Avatar fans have a bad reputation.
My least favorite scene in any movie released in the last few years is when the love interest Navi meets the protagonist and twice says "YOU R LEIK BAYBEEEEEEEE!" in the most annoying voice I have ever heard in my life anywhere.
To finish off, I don't see anything redeeming in Avatar other than the "amazing visuals". I play video games. I get amazing visuals all the time. I don't want to watch a 2 hour cutscene of the graphics designers flexing their muscles and sucking eachother off.
Secondly, the majority of people who like Avatar claim to love James Cameron's films, but can't name any of them that don't involve 3d blue people. This doesn't reflect why Avatar is bad, but why Avatar fans have a bad reputation.
My least favorite scene in any movie released in the last few years is when the love interest Navi meets the protagonist and twice says "YOU R LEIK BAYBEEEEEEEE!" in the most annoying voice I have ever heard in my life anywhere.
To finish off, I don't see anything redeeming in Avatar other than the "amazing visuals". I play video games. I get amazing visuals all the time. I don't want to watch a 2 hour cutscene of the graphics designers flexing their muscles and sucking eachother off.
Story isn't that great and CG isn't the greatest thing ever, very well in that movie though. I personally think it got more credit than it earned and way too high reviews for a movie that was only about eye candy. A good story and actually believable acting is way underestimated these days, both in games and movies.