Personal Opinion on Religion (Atheist View)

[Orenthi]

That isn't a failing of mine, nor of yours, but it is not your job to 'educate' me into Christianity. I am not 'wrong'.

Therein lies the problem. biblicaly you are wrong. The idea that 'all paths lead to god' does not exist in Christianity. Christians may believe that but that is rather a fault rather than divine "rubber stamp of approval"
Course my job, biblically is merely to state "you are wrong, Jesus is the son of God, and the only path to god. Salvation for all in this direction!."
And it is technically at that point im supposed to leave it. youve heard the good news, if you want to know more you will ask. I dont see the point of trying to force my faith on you any further than stating the above once, as it will only drive you away from my intended target. not a good thing.

In such, i see 'all paths lead to god' as an atheistic view.
ie:
There is no god, therefore god is nothing, all religions are incorrect and lead to nothing, therefore all religions/paths lead to god


As to the why do bad things happen question:
God may need a disaster to happen, or perhaps someone went way out of line. but there is also the chance of a disaster merely being 'crap happens'
Finally, people are neglecting satan. He isnt a non factor, and he still has some power (particularly in temptation and deception)

I really shouldnt reply to threads like this though i just say something that brings flames. lots and lots of flames. then comes probations/warning from mods. yay

 

[Orenthi]

Will these threads ever stop !?

Never, NEVVVVVEEEEERRR!

Heres the funny thing: there were more fanatics in the blizzard v relic MM thread than are represented in this one XD

 

[Northpaw]

Will these threads ever stop !?

Never, NEVVVVVEEEEERRR!

Heres the funny thing: there were more fanatics in the blizzard v relic MM thread than are represented in this one XD

A demonstration of where people put their priorities, I suppose. I say that jokingly, but I think there's still some truth to it.

 

[Baby Tea]

Course my job, biblically is merely to state "you are wrong, Jesus is the son of God, and the only path to god. Salvation for all in this direction!."

Um,pardon?
Could you point out the verse that says 'And Jesus said: "Go forth and tell people they are wrong!"'?

Now, don't get me wrong: I fully believe that Jesus truly is the 'way, truth, and life'. But I don't think telling people 'you're wrong' is a proper form of Evangelism. At all.

First off, you give no reasons for people to think you're right. In fact, you come across as an arrogant jerk, and why would people want to follow Jesus if they are going to turn out to be an arrogant jerk? That's certainly not why I became a believer.

Secondly, that's about as loving as a slap to the face. And Jesus, turns out, talked an awful lot about loving people, and even praying for your enemies! Not just putting up with the, but actually praying for them! So the whole 'you're wrong' approach doesn't really reflect the love and grace the Jesus paved the way with.

Finally, the Bible says way less about 'telling' people anything then modern evangelists would have you believe. It says a whole lot about doing things, like feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, being forgiving, helping those in need, etc. So rather then tell people about Christianity, I would think it's far more effective to show them through daily living. In fact, I know it's more effective.

Please. Please really consider what you're writing when you write it. Many people can read one bad post, and carry the wrong idea about Christianity with them for years, if not the rest of their lives. If it isn't reflective of the message of love and grace that Christ gave, then stop yourself. It just makes it harder for the rest of us.

 

[Orenthi]

Course my job, biblically is merely to state "you are wrong, Jesus is the son of God, and the only path to god. Salvation for all in this direction!."

Um,pardon?
Could you point out the verse that says 'And Jesus said: "Go forth and tell people they are wrong!"'?

Now, don't get me wrong: I fully believe that Jesus truly is the 'way, truth, and life'. But I don't think telling people 'you're wrong' is a proper form of Evangelism. At all.

First off, you give no reasons for people to think you're right. In fact, you come across as an arrogant jerk, and why would people want to follow Jesus if they are going to turn out to be an arrogant jerk? That's certainly not why I became a believer.

Secondly, that's about as loving as a slap to the face. And Jesus, turns out, talked an awful lot about loving people, and even praying for your enemies! Not just putting up with the, but actually praying for them! So the whole 'you're wrong' approach doesn't really reflect the love and grace the Jesus paved the way with.

Finally, the Bible says way less about 'telling' people anything then modern evangelists would have you believe. It says a whole lot about doing things, like feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, being forgiving, helping those in need, etc. So rather then tell people about Christianity, I would think it's far more effective to show them through daily living. In fact, I know it's more effective.

Please. Please really consider what you're writing when you write it. Many people can read one bad post, and carry the wrong idea about Christianity with them for years, if not the rest of their lives. If it isn't reflective of the message of love and grace that Christ gave, then stop yourself. It just makes it harder for the rest of us.

I see your point with the go out bit. :/ my apologies.
I was, however pointing out that biblically, the quoted person was 'wrong'. I did not intend to sound arrogant with that. internet, not good medium to get across underlying emotion / implication etc.
You are absolutely correct about salvation coming to others through actions rather than words, and i didnt intend it to seem as though merely stating a small sentence could do what usually requires years of actually living in faith for others to see can accomplish.
And as to the lack of reason, i was making an assumption that no one here would accept my reasoning anyway (everyone in this thread having already chosen a world view and sticking to it thereof).

Also, @ the guy i quoted for that one, no hard feeling, did not intend that to sound like i was tying the bible to a stick n using it as a hammer on ya there :/

 

[Deacon Cole]

Heres the funny thing: there were more fanatics in the blizzard v relic MM thread than are represented in this one XD

Doesn't surprise me. Religion is just a form of fandom which has been steadily losing its appeal with each passing generation. Not unlike baseball.

 

[Orenthi]

Heres the funny thing: there were more fanatics in the blizzard v relic MM thread than are represented in this one XD

Doesn't surprise me. Religion is just a form of fandom which has been steadily losing its appeal with each passing generation. Not unlike baseball.

I disagree with you there. It isnt losing appeal with every generation, at least on a global scale- its almost constant. In western nations on the other hand, there is a major shift away from especially christianity to either atheism or faiths that were not common to westerners - course thats my opinion thus only as valid as yours. wtb facts

That and most internet forum users, especially on gaming forums (from my perspective) are dominated by a mix of atheist and agnostic people. Thus they are more likely to start a flame war over favoured developers than care about the latest religion thread to appear in off topic / general. once again from my perspecitve religion threads have been done to death whereas a blizzard v relic "who is better rts developer" controversial thread is bound to attract gamers like flies to honey...or any other food scrap.

 

[lacktheknack]

I agree with every post so far. Especially OP.


EDIT: Except for this one.

Oh and its 4 in the morning and I'm being kept awake by a now half-empty 2 litre of coke.

In other words, 1 litre of coke

I'm atheist too but some people enjoy religion and I just let 'em get on with it.

As for the question of why God would allow suffering... well, I'll leave that one up to a religious fellow.

Agreeing with OP entirely, I have to say, I disagree. As someone who believes that the only way our species can advance is through, I believe that allowing people to go "fuck it, I can do whatever I want because it's god's plan for me; I'm gonna sit at home, jerk off and live off my girlfriend for the rest of my life because if god wanted me to do differently, he'd say so" for the rest of eternity can only be detrimental to humanity as a whole.

So how about the people who claim that God said "stop living off your girlfriend and do something useful", and went off and did something useful?

Name two.

I'll name three: Bruce Olson, Amy Carmichael, and Mary Slessor. The first one stopped the tribe wars among the Motiliones due to God's bidding, the second one rescued many girls from sexual slavery from God's bidding, the third one stopped the tribe wars in Calabar WITH VIRTUALLY NO HELP at the bidding of God.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

I agree with every post so far. Especially OP.


EDIT: Except for this one.

Oh and its 4 in the morning and I'm being kept awake by a now half-empty 2 litre of coke.

In other words, 1 litre of coke

I'm atheist too but some people enjoy religion and I just let 'em get on with it.

As for the question of why God would allow suffering... well, I'll leave that one up to a religious fellow.

Agreeing with OP entirely, I have to say, I disagree. As someone who believes that the only way our species can advance is through, I believe that allowing people to go "fuck it, I can do whatever I want because it's god's plan for me; I'm gonna sit at home, jerk off and live off my girlfriend for the rest of my life because if god wanted me to do differently, he'd say so" for the rest of eternity can only be detrimental to humanity as a whole.

So how about the people who claim that God said "stop living off your girlfriend and do something useful", and went off and did something useful?

Name two.

I'll name three: Bruce Olson, Amy Carmichael, and Mary Slessor. The first one stopped the tribe wars among the Motiliones due to God's bidding, the second one rescued many girls from sexual slavery from God's bidding, the third one stopped the tribe wars in Calabar WITH VIRTUALLY NO HELP at the bidding of God.

So according to you, every occurrence is of God's machination?

 

[sketchyshadows]

catholic all the way baby, at least religon keeps people in check,

Watch the movie "the boondock saints" ...KICKS ASS

 

[lacktheknack]

I agree with every post so far. Especially OP.


EDIT: Except for this one.

Oh and its 4 in the morning and I'm being kept awake by a now half-empty 2 litre of coke.

In other words, 1 litre of coke

I'm atheist too but some people enjoy religion and I just let 'em get on with it.

As for the question of why God would allow suffering... well, I'll leave that one up to a religious fellow.

Agreeing with OP entirely, I have to say, I disagree. As someone who believes that the only way our species can advance is through, I believe that allowing people to go "fuck it, I can do whatever I want because it's god's plan for me; I'm gonna sit at home, jerk off and live off my girlfriend for the rest of my life because if god wanted me to do differently, he'd say so" for the rest of eternity can only be detrimental to humanity as a whole.

So how about the people who claim that God said "stop living off your girlfriend and do something useful", and went off and did something useful?

Name two.

I'll name three: Bruce Olson, Amy Carmichael, and Mary Slessor. The first one stopped the tribe wars among the Motiliones due to God's bidding, the second one rescued many girls from sexual slavery from God's bidding, the third one stopped the tribe wars in Calabar WITH VIRTUALLY NO HELP at the bidding of God.

So according to you, every occurrence is of God's machination?

THEY CLAIM it was of God's machination. My previous quote only mentioned "people who claim"...

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

THEY CLAIM it was of God's machination. My previous quote only mentioned "people who claim"...

I'm afraid beliefs and claims do not go hand-in-hand, my good sir. =/

 

[cannot_aim]

1. That god moves in mysterious and incomprehensible ways.
or
2. That we were given free will by god and that we have to deal with the consequences.

Now isnt that a load of crap. If god gave us free will and saw us screw up time after time and seeing us constantly trying to exterminate one another why not get rid of that freedom? and if this is all part of his great master plan what kind of sick, twisted, sociopathic god are we worshiping and why?

When eagles kick their young out of the nest and watch them attempt to fly are they doing wrong?

When your parents asked you to leave your house was it because they didn't love you anymore and were sociopathic?

actually yes not really of course I just think that if god wants us all to hate and kill one another why not just save us the trouble and wipe us out with his ominipotent I can kill everything in the cosmos without even waving my hand powers? Or at least less us all die in a semi-interesting way like let us get invaded by aliens or zombies attack or something.

If an eagle kicked its young out of the nest and it fell to the ground and died, it would most likely try again. But you would think that after the fourth or fifth child died from the same mistake the eagle would figure out a different way to get the little baby chickies flying. (not saying that it works AT ALL like that but comparing it to what the other guy said about free will)
I can see this from both sides, but I just don't understand why god would watch his "children" murderously wrench each other apart and not step in and do something about it. I don't agree with having free will taken away that would suck ass but it's obvious that god IS the parent who sent their child away because he/she/it/whatever no longer cared for it.

Ya thats kinda what I think and since I'm way to lazy to go back and find all those other people who quoted me I'm just gonna say that I agree it would be totally awsome to live in a world where god gave us everything we could ever want. But I think my scenario is much more likely than all of us dancing around a fire singing.

 

[the1ringer]

Many, many, many things

First of all I'd like to say that - even though I only know all of you Escapists as merely avatars, false names, and many many written words - I'm profoundly proud that we've actually made a BIG bunch of progress in the way of understanding and tolerating another's opinions. Something that is, to my experience, unheard of online, if at all!

tl;dr: I love you guys in a heterosexual way.

Now, the1ringer: it's interesting that you're here because from what I've read from your posts (which isn't everything, so correct me if I'm rong) is that you're a christian with a very fundamentalist approach. If you take offense to that please substitute literalist with fundamentalist.

The reason I find this interesting is because from what I've read so far on these forums, most followers of christianity (as well as followers of plenty of other denominations) are quite moderate in their religious experiences: they meet the gamut of other forum members half way, if you will.

Your hesitant introduction to this thread included that you were an 'evangelical calvinistic christian', and you admitted as well that you weren't quite comfortable admitting that you were as much initially. You also stated that though you were quite put off by earlier comments on this forum, you finally felt comfortable enough to confess your denomination.

This is really weird for me, because just when we as Escapists finally found a base for mutual tolerance, you come along with a bit more of an extremist/literalist view. Part of me wants to grab you by the collar and shake you around and say "but we were doing so well!!!", but the prevailing sentiment is that this might be the next step.

So basically - and this is coming from quite the atheist - I'm trying to welcome you, and to tell you: please bear with us. You're probably going to catch a lot of flak for being so candid, and we won't all agree with you (I sure don't!), but you're doing well here, and given time you're sure to fit right in with the rest of the Escapists.

tl;dr: WELCOME TO THE ESCAPIST FORUMS


ps. Holy shit, I wrote a lot here.

Well if by saying I seem fundamentalist you mean I am sort of a "Bible boxer" or someone who tries constantly to attack others religiously then I would say you have a misconception.

I first stated my beliefs as breifly as possible. Someone commented that we are all believing basically the same thing and we all want to think there is some purpose or controlling force in the universe. I commented that I have encountered some who do not fit under this category. I said that it seems purposeless to me, to argue about what we think God should have done or to use that as a reason to deny God's existence. I quoted C.S. Lewis not to say that I am definitely right and anyone who disagrees with me is "cutting off the branch they are sitting on." My point was that you cannot disagree with God because He is Truth (He created truth) and He gave you your reasoning ability. So instead of arguing what we think God should have done I think we should be a bit more realistic and discuss what He did or did not do, or whether He exists. I'm afraid I can't see any point in arguing what God should have done, because unfortunately, God could not do what all of the different viewpoints on this thread wish Him to do.

Now, where was I? Oh yes. I then stated that I think the folks who differ from my views seem to stem from a higher view of mankind than I have and a I lower view of God that I wish, but not always, have. Any time I reason that a sin is justifiable I think I am elevating myself and degrading God.

I was then corrected on an error. I admitted that it was a mistake and corrected it.

Cuddly_Tomato challenged one of my beliefs about sin. I never said he had to accept my belief or that everyone had to think themselves sinners. I said I think they are, and by the Biblical definition I still think no one can say they aren't. I don't think I attacked him and I don't blame him for attacking me. I was responding to his challenge, not attacking him or attempting to harm your tranquility here on the Escapist. The resulting discussion has followed, as far as I can tell, with problems people have with my system of belief. I certainly don't think any change of the heart can be made by force. The Native Americans were mostly forced to convert to Christianity and I don't think were really changed by it.

So I don't think I really upset your balance hear, didn't mean to. Only wanted to, as i said, state my beliefs, perhaps improve them, and answer questions.

 

[the1ringer]

I haven't read through all six pages of this stuff, so hopefully I won't only say things that have already been said.

I guess first and foremost, the loving God argument. This is a tricky one that I don't believe anybody fully understands. My belief is God created everything and has a plan for everything (fate) that still allows for choice (free will).

Before anybody goes off to tell me this is a contradiction, it's not. If there's a snake in a glass case, and I put a mouse in there, everybody knows what will happen. The snake, whether immediately or when it gets hungry, will eat that mouse. By manipulating the situation (using a plan) but allowing the snake to choose what to do (not ramming the mouse down its throat) there exists both a certain fate and free will. I believe God manipulates circumstances so that we will react in a very exact way because he knows our hearts and minds completely. People will argue that this isn't total freedom, and they're right, but neither is it a total lack of freedom. Thus, both exist in a balance.

It's very confusing when you think of the enormity of it (whether you believe it or not) and I don't claim to understand everything. I don't know exactly why God allows things such as rape and murder to happen, but it's important to remember that God only allows it and certainly does not want it. Since God also allows us to be good to one another, it is therefore up to us to how we act. It's easy to fall into a trap of why there is such suffering caused by people, without also looking at how God uses other people for good. And when I say God uses people for good, this is most certainly not exclusive to people who believe in God, Christian or otherwise. (However, doing good works does not make somebody saved. I'll elaborate shortly.)

By giving people the choice to do good or bad, God is basically the same as a parent. Parents will only harm children by sheltering them too much, because then the child will not learn or otherwise grow as a person properly.

God is not only loving, but also just, which means that people have to be held accountable for laws broken. Any law broken is a choice made for one to separate himself from God. So ultimately, people choose to separate themselves from God. (And that's what hell is, an eternity separated from God.) Since breaking any one law at any time during life make somebody a sinner (sin in Greek meaning "missing the mark" like in archery, meaning anything short of perfection or goodness, basically). God knew that people would screw up, and the law was in place to let people know how they fell short. The law never saved anybody, it was faith.

Romans 4: 1-3

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

The short version is that God planned to save all nations through the descendants of Abraham, the Jews, but at any time any other person could have faith in God and be saved. As an example: Rahab, a prostitute living in Jericho, showed a faith in God and hid Jewish spies from the king of Jericho. She is a direct ancestor of Jesus, though she was not a Jew herself.

Now then, since the Jews failed miserably in sharing God with other nations, God sent Jesus so that through him all nations might know God, giving the Holy Spirit freely to anyone who accepted it through baptism.

This is a very short version and contextually there's much more to it than this, but this explains what I believe spiritually and historically. I hope this helps give people an understanding. I'm willing to answer any comments or questions as well.

Wait, is this the Northpaw from the LotRO forums who I think started that .abc music thread and who I got some really great songs from?

 

[Northpaw]

Wait, is this the Northpaw from the LotRO forums who I think started that .abc music thread and who I got some really great songs from?

Kind of a funny coincidence, but no.

 

[DeathsAmbassador]

My understanding is that religion originated from dreams.

My theory is that it came from our tendency to anthropomorphizing things, which is a twelve dollar word meaning "assigning human traits to inhuman things"

Actually that's called personification.

Religion is an answer to why we are here, not how. Leave it at that. Someone believes something you can't, leave them to it.

That's the way I feel too. I do believe in God and I know there are some crazy religious people out there that structure their entire life and beliefs around God and the Bible, but that's (in my opinion) being narrow minded. I think the best thing we all can do is be as open minded as possible no matter what our belief system is. Which is why I get so mad when people start forcing their beliefs on others, religious or not.

 

[101194]

I don't beleive in God, I beleive in that the Supream Force that started the big Bang, An Event, Not a Being.

 

[Ghadente]

Agnosticism is the closest to truth anyone could ever get... maybe... you never know

oh and simply put: religion = bad, free-thinking = good

 

[hiks89]

britthill your an idiot... there i said it.if you believe in a light that created the universe youre a fukin retard (no offence)

God allows suffering because mankind choice to disobey Him. God loves everyone and therefore He gives us a choice whether to accept Him or deny Him. I'm not going to go into a huge spiel about this, but if you want the answers to those questions, go to the first book of the Bible (Genisis). God allows bad things to happen because we have asked Him to step out of our lives and just leave us alone. Therefore, He has stepped out. Why should we tell Him to back off and then when bad things happen, ask Him to help us? (You probably figured it out, but I'm a Christian)