Philosophy in a nutshell

[The_root_of_all_evil]

With reference to XKCD:

"I can't come to bed. Someone on the Internet is wrong!"

 

[Seldon2639]

I have two quotes by the author Henry Louis Mencken that best summarize my world view both related to ethics.

"Conscience is the inner voice that warns us somebody may be looking."

"Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others."

Another good Mencken:

"The difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been caught."

 

[Seldon2639]

"When every star in the Heavens grows cold, and when silence lies once more in the face of the deep, three things shall endure: Faith, Hope, and Love, and the greatest of these is love"

-First Corinthians, chapter 13

I can't believe I'm quoting the bible, but it's apt. The only things we do which remain are the ones which impact others, and the greatest of these expressions is love.

 

[Cozmo1]

10 out of 10 people die, Don't take life too seriously.

 

[Seldon2639]

10 out of 10 people die, Don't take life too seriously.

This is going to sound like an odd question, but why? If everyone dies, isn't that a reason to take life seriously while we're here, make our impact on the world rather than fading away in a blaze of hedonism?

 

[Rolling Thunder]

'I will live my life by my standards, not your's. If they coincide, that's great. If they do not, you are the one in the wrong.'

Hedonism is great. And besides, the world cannot be changed. I wrote an essay on it at some point. I'll post it when I finish transcribing it.

 

[Easykill]

No one? Really? Oh well.

 

[Larenxis]

Easykill: They prove that it's not just her imagination, so it seems more likely that what she sees is what is.

 

[Seldon2639]

'I will live my life by my standards, not your's. If they coincide, that's great. If they do not, you are the one in the wrong.'

Hedonism is great. And besides, the world cannot be changed. I wrote an essay on it at some point. I'll post it when I finish transcribing it.

Not the world as a whole, but those around you certainly. And if you attempt at it, you can make an impact on more and more people. I only find your logic baffling because your standards (being inherently self-concerned) are likely to result in harm to other (purposefully or incidentally). What makes you right? What justifies harm to others in order to achieve your hedonistic ends?

You can't argue that hedonism causes no harm. It can avoid causing harm in certain circumstances, but in others it's impossible. You decide to go get drunk, because it's fun for you, and come home at 3:00 in the morning, waking up your neighbors, how do you justify (in any way other than a repetition of "life's too short to live for others") your harm to other people?

I realize that's an odd example (pulled from my own life), but it's emblematic of the problems with an outlook on life that says "I do what I want, and screw everyone else". You can be self-interested without being selfish. But a mindset that broaches no disagreement, that's entirely illogical, and hence anti-philisophical.

Show me the world can't be changed. Show me that by doing what you want, you create more happiness for yourself than could be created in others by not being selfish. Hell, even show me that your happiness doesn't come at the expense of ill-effect to others, and I'll at least accept that you can make an argument that Ayn Rand-esque self-interest is good. Otherwise, accept that this isn't "the world can't be changed", and call it what it is: "I just want to do what makes me happy".

Also, how do you know your standards are right, and everyone else is wrong? That seems like and oddly religious thing to say.

 

[Seldon2639]

Also, how do you know your standards are right, and everyone else is wrong? That seems like and oddly religious thing to say.

how do you know your beliefs are right, and not religions?

"if you ask enough questions, keep asking at the answers themselves, even science will eventually need to admit that things are the way they are 'because', and there sits god, we looked for him in high places, when he hid in the seams of the world"

And as for hedonism... your trying to apply reason to hedonism... when the whole point of hedonism is to do what you will against reason, thats like calling a 'knock-on' against a poker player.

EDIT: as this has spilled over to a new page, i would recommend reading the posts before this before replying to mine, if that is your intention.

I agree, and one of the core elements of any good philosophy is going to be the constant re-examination of whether it works. But, any good life-philosophy will be based on some level on reason. It's impossible to get around reason in terms of philosophy. Otherwise, philosophy is just emotional response to stimuli, which wouldn't be philisophical at all, you know?

I had to look up a knock-on, and your analogy makes sense, now that I know it's a penalty in Rugby. But, if Hedonism is doing what you want against reason (which, incidentally is not the original meaning of Hedonism), the defense of it is an attempt to create a reasonable defense of the unreasonable. Fondant's point was that "the world can't be changed, so get the best of it you can while you're alive". Which is a fine point to make, but is based on a couple of assumptions I don't grant. The first is that the world can't be changed, the second is that there is a primacy of an individual's pleasure over the well-being of others.

My philosophy, while based a lot on doing well by others, is also based largely on reexamination of my own beliefs.

I would only argue the Spock-based philosophy: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

P.S I accidentally reported AllmightyJoe for moderation. It was a slip of the mouse, nothing more

 

[Easykill]

Hope you didn't get banned over a slip of the mouse.

 

[Seldon2639]

P.S I accidentally reported AllmightyJoe for moderation. It was a slip of the mouse, nothing more

my sarcasm senses tingle... but ill rule in the benefit of the doubt (another sports rule joke)

in any case, i was pointing out the same problem your above post falls into, i am not hedonistic, but if i was, i'm pretty sure someone telling me to stop would not be a deterrent.

Seriously, it was a stupid mistake on my part. The report button is situated right above the top of the text box, so when I tried to click on the text box, it went to the report button. If there's any way I can make that clear to the people in charge, I'll do so.

Back to the issue at hand:

Telling you to stop may not be a deterrent, and I'm not really trying to stop you. If you want to be hedonistic, that's fine, but don't try to wrap it in the flag like this is some grand philisophical treatise. And keep in mind that the original Hedonism would never allow personal pleasure to cause harm to another, that's closer to Sybaritism

 

[Seldon2639]

Hope you didn't get banned over a slip of the mouse.

I'd feel really bad

 

[Moroha]

Existance is a endless cycle.

 

[Cozmo1]

10 out of 10 people die, Don't take life too seriously.

This is going to sound like an odd question, but why? If everyone dies, isn't that a reason to take life seriously while we're here, make our impact on the world rather than fading away in a blaze of hedonism?

As in don't get too attached to it.

 

[CasualZombie]

"The bad news is we live in a meaningless and pointless existance, the good news is if we're living in a pointless existance we can't be do anything wrong if we've nothing to aim for in the first place, now I'm off to teach that ***** a lesson for telling me everything I'm doing is wrong just to put me down"

-Everything I do is justified by me wanting to do it...

The bad news is we live in a meaningless and pointless existance, the good news is I brought pie!

I just go around doing whatever the hell I want!, It just so happens that what I want is to make the people I like happy

 

[werepossum]

Hold hands. Be nice to people you like; be polite to those you don't. Work hard and long - women appreciate everything hard and long. Do more than expected. Never say "That's not my job." Learn something new every day (yeah, that one slips most days.) Hard work and good behavior are always rewarded, if not in this world then in the next. Work as though you'll live to be 100; play as though you'll die tomorrow. Ethics aren't conditional or situation-dependant, those are excuses. And like Seldon's, don't take life too seriously, it's not permanent.

Kinda big nutshell...