'Pick-up artist' banned from the UK

[V4Viewtiful]

Just watched Question Time and they brought him up they all pretty much agree but the woman that posed the question compared this guy to Huge Hefner. As if it amounts to the same thing, people will just drag everyone down even if it isn't legit

Pick up artist are a... Necessary evil because I gotta be honest, it's rough out there. The amount of men seeking women out (and failing) dwafs the opposite (and don't most countries have mostly women?). Not every man has that innate ability to attacked women (hell Hitch was built on that premise alone).
This f*cker goes over the edge though.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

He sounds like the kind of guy I'd like to smack upside the head with a shovel. The less he's able to spread his garbage the better.

 

[Erttheking]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

I'd probably be ok with it if he wasn't encouraging sleazy behavior. Fortunatly I have the perfect person in mind.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/1baf054a7ddb9ae490d383df3b1f2a80/tumblr_myyhxnU6Wp1rkpfcgo4_250.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/cba9b7d1f5cb4c314990a6bc16a3fb2c/tumblr_myyhxnU6Wp1rkpfcgo3_250.gif

 

[maffgibson]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

I would reflexively say that "legitimate pick up artist" is an oxymoron. Assuming by "legitimate" you mean "not advocating psychological manipulation and abuse".

The thing about the expression "pick up artist" is that it seems (at least to me) to have strong undertones of objectification (You may now cross that word off on your "Escapist forum bingo" cards! Yay!)

But in all seriousness, "Pick up" as a turn of phrase is one in which the person being picked up is passive. They are not actively involved, just being moved around by the "pick up artist". As for "artist", it feels pretty linked to this myth that there is some kind of konami code that you just need to master to access all the womenz you want.

Dating coaches, on the other hand, yeah, I can really respect someone who coaches men to become better at dating (a thing that two people do). Not all men are lucky enough to be blessed with confidence or knowledge about how to do such things in a constructive, human way. As I said, I can respect someone who coaches those people.

 

[Grendich]

I'd probably be ok with it if he wasn't encouraging sleazy behavior.

If it works, can you blame him/them?

 

[Erttheking]

I'd probably be ok with it if he wasn't encouraging sleazy behavior.

If it works, can you blame him/them?

Pretty damn big if there. Not to mention if it does work, then I'm pretty worried about the current state of society, because we already have enough problems with men encouraged to be predatory towards women and women simultaneously being told they should accept the advances of men yet if they have too much sex it's immoral. Sex is a fucking mess in my country...damn that sounded awkward.

 

[maffgibson]

I'd probably be ok with it if he wasn't encouraging sleazy behavior.

If it works, can you blame him/them?

Yes. In the same way as if I went to someone for financial advice, and they advised me to find a pensioner and take their money. We would both be deserving of blame in that situation.

It is effective, especially seeing as a key stage of the procedure is choosing someone on the basis of their vulnerability. Doesn't make it morally justifiable.

 

[Kathinka]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

That's actually an interesting and good question! Let me pour my uncalled for opinion on you!

The basic idea how you put it, to become a more desirable and attractive person is great I think! Absolutely ZERO wrong with that. There's coaches for that that offer serious (if sometimes pricey) lessons on that. I know two people that actually enjoyed the service of one such expert and by their own account benefited greatly from it, relationship-and girl wise, but also in other areas of their lives.
However, with PUAs the lines become a bit muddled. While all the serious self-improvement coaching will emphasize on you staying true to yourself and sticking to your values, the pickup scene essentially has you put on a mask, pretend to be something you are not to score with a girl. That can't work in the long run. It might get you laid with some boring, insecure party girl. But in contrast, benefiting from real self improvement, with or without professional assistance, will actually help you to meaningful, honest relationships.

Final word: I don't think it's per se bad to employ a tactic while flirting. We all do it, with varying degree of awareness and effectiveness. They just pick girls and employ the tactics more effective than others. That being said, having met a bunch of self declared "Pickup artists" myself, I take everything said and written by them with a heap of salt. I'm fairly convinced that while more successful than the average joe, many of their exploits are fabrication

 

[Ikaruga33]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

I would reflexively say that "legitimate pick up artist" is an oxymoron. Assuming by "legitimate" you mean "not advocating psychological manipulation and abuse".

The thing about the expression "pick up artist" is that it seems (at least to me) to have strong undertones of objectification (You may now cross that word off on your "Escapist forum bingo" cards! Yay!)

But in all seriousness, "Pick up" as a turn of phrase is one in which the person being picked up is passive. They are not actively involved, just being moved around by the "pick up artist". As for "artist", it feels pretty linked to this myth that there is some kind of konami code that you just need to master to access all the womenz you want.

Dating coaches, on the other hand, yeah, I can really respect someone who coaches men to become better at dating (a thing that two people do). Not all men are lucky enough to be blessed with confidence or knowledge about how to do such things in a constructive, human way. As I said, I can respect someone who coaches those people.

Now you're just arguing themantics.
The point of a 'legit pick up artist' is merely to teach men how to make women want to sleep with them.
Perhaps there could be female pickup artists too.
It doesn't have to be about psychological manipulation or abuse.
We just use the term 'pick up artist' because it's the term that most people are already familiar with.

 

[Bat Vader]

I'd probably be ok with it if he wasn't encouraging sleazy behavior.

If it works, can you blame him/them?

I blame him/them. The man is a piece of scum and anyone who does what he does is just as rotten and scummy as he is. The person could have a shitty life but once someone acts like that all my sympathy for them goes out the window.

 

[maffgibson]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

snip

Now you're just arguing themantics.
The point of a 'legit pick up artist' is merely to teach men how to make women want to sleep with them.
Perhaps there could be female pickup artists too.
It doesn't have to be about psychological manipulation or abuse.
We just use the term 'pick up artist' because it's the term that most people are already familiar with.

Yeah, I guess am, but only partially. The thing is that "Pick up artist" DOES have a whole lot of meaning that it is carrying as baggage, and it is hard to address the question without addressing that. It's probably that I have never heard of a self-described PUA who doesn't fit the stereotype of psychological abusive behaviour.

I introduced the distinction of "dating coach" specifically because of what you said: "pick up artist" is the term that we hear much, much more on the internet. In order to try and pull out what I thought was positive about teaching men to be more confident in themselves, and therefore more attractive, I felt I needed to make the distinction.

So while I have a strong gut reaction to the term "pick-up artist" that might have coloured my reaction to your question, I wouldn't agree that I was purely arguing semantics. I have heard about lots of dating coaches who give advice that doesn't dehumanise the people you want to have sex with, but never a PUA who does. Just my experience, though.

EDIT: Fixed typo
EDIT: Fixed typo in above "EDIT". Geez.

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Perhaps there could be female pickup artists too.

There are, you could check for yourself.

 

[WonkyWarmaiden]

This guy needs to be tasered in the nuts. Multiple times a day. And then pushed down a flight of stairs into a tank of sharks while wearing a suit made of steak. Seriously, fuck this guy and the men he's teaching this garbage to.

 

[DANEgerous]

Wow... I am very and I mean very hard to offend but even I see this ass for what he is. Yeah I want this bastard to walk into my bar so I can mace his ass and have like half my patrons break his ribs. I mean he forces himself on women, holy shit if he did that to some women I know this man would have more holes than Swiss cheese, and is would give the woman that did it a high five as she is likely one bad ass *****. So yeah I am intentionally offensive and even I hate this prick, give me a cage match with this asshole. His screams will taste like candy to my ears!

 

[LetalisK]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

That's actually an interesting and good question! Let me pour my uncalled for opinion on you!

The basic idea how you put it, to become a more desirable and attractive person is great I think! Absolutely ZERO wrong with that. There's coaches for that that offer serious (if sometimes pricey) lessons on that. I know two people that actually enjoyed the service of one such expert and by their own account benefited greatly from it, relationship-and girl wise, but also in other areas of their lives.
However, with PUAs the lines become a bit muddled. While all the serious self-improvement coaching will emphasize on you staying true to yourself and sticking to your values, the pickup scene essentially has you put on a mask, pretend to be something you are not to score with a girl. That can't work in the long run. It might get you laid with some boring, insecure party girl. But in contrast, benefiting from real self improvement, with or without professional assistance, will actually help you to meaningful, honest relationships.

Final word: I don't think it's per se bad to employ a tactic while flirting. We all do it, with varying degree of awareness and effectiveness. They just pick girls and employ the tactics more effective than others. That being said, having met a bunch of self declared "Pickup artists" myself, I take everything said and written by them with a heap of salt. I'm fairly convinced that while more successful than the average joe, many of their exploits are fabrication

The way I look at it, pick up artists : dating experts :: jack offs on TV selling the latest and greatest diet : dietician.

 

[Kathinka]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

That's actually an interesting and good question! Let me pour my uncalled for opinion on you!

The basic idea how you put it, to become a more desirable and attractive person is great I think! Absolutely ZERO wrong with that. There's coaches for that that offer serious (if sometimes pricey) lessons on that. I know two people that actually enjoyed the service of one such expert and by their own account benefited greatly from it, relationship-and girl wise, but also in other areas of their lives.
However, with PUAs the lines become a bit muddled. While all the serious self-improvement coaching will emphasize on you staying true to yourself and sticking to your values, the pickup scene essentially has you put on a mask, pretend to be something you are not to score with a girl. That can't work in the long run. It might get you laid with some boring, insecure party girl. But in contrast, benefiting from real self improvement, with or without professional assistance, will actually help you to meaningful, honest relationships.

Final word: I don't think it's per se bad to employ a tactic while flirting. We all do it, with varying degree of awareness and effectiveness. They just pick girls and employ the tactics more effective than others. That being said, having met a bunch of self declared "Pickup artists" myself, I take everything said and written by them with a heap of salt. I'm fairly convinced that while more successful than the average joe, many of their exploits are fabrication

The way I look at it, pick up artists : dating experts :: jack offs on TV selling the latest and greatest diet : dietician.

I wouldn't go 100% that far. Sure, it's true for many self styled Pickup artists. But there's legitimate and serious dating experts out there that can absolutely help people improve themselves, within reasonable degrees.

Ahhh I just saw, I completely misread and misunderstood your syntax. Youa re equating PUAs to Quacks and Serious Dating coaches to professionals. Yes, true, I agree. Disregard my post.

 

[Something Amyss]

I wouldn't go 100% that far. Sure, it's true for many self styled Pickup artists. But there's legitimate and serious dating experts out there that can absolutely help people improve themselves, within reasonable degrees.

And there are legitimate dieticians that can absolutely help people improve themselves, which is why Letalisk's metaphor seems accurate.

 

[Kathinka]

I wouldn't go 100% that far. Sure, it's true for many self styled Pickup artists. But there's legitimate and serious dating experts out there that can absolutely help people improve themselves, within reasonable degrees.

And there are legitimate dieticians that can absolutely help people improve themselves, which is why Letalisk's metaphor seems accurate.

Yeah it's legit, I completely misread, sorry about that, my bad.

 

[DefunctTheory]

So, disregarding this guys disgusting behaviour, what do you guys think of the idea of a legitimate pick up artist?
Someone who simply teaches us men how to become more attractive to women, in order to have consensual sex.
No con games,harassment, minimum amount of drugs. He just teaches us what is and isn't attractive .

I'd probably be ok with it if he wasn't encouraging sleazy behavior. Fortunatly I have the perfect person in mind.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/1baf054a7ddb9ae490d383df3b1f2a80/tumblr_myyhxnU6Wp1rkpfcgo4_250.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/cba9b7d1f5cb4c314990a6bc16a3fb2c/tumblr_myyhxnU6Wp1rkpfcgo3_250.gif

The world would be a far better and more interesting place if we could only learn from Gomez Addams the secrets of human happiness and how to treat your fellow man.