Piracy and the Industry.

[Shru1kan]

ITS A CRIME.

However, I do pirate. But read on, bear with me, I am not evil incarnate for doing so or a lowly thief.

Copyright infringement or theft. Semantics. It's a crime. However, the worse crime is the RIAA bankrupting and vilifying 14 year old girls and their whole families for 100k or more when the actual damages are less than 15 dollars!

No, I don't pay for my music. I have 5 new albums from 2010, and guess what? I have seen every one of the bands which I "irreparably damaged their livelihood", or ate their firstborn, from what record companies make it sound like because they cant stand to fucking swim in 50's rather than hundred dollar bills, this year. Don't buy and support record companies that take 90%+ of the take, support the band and see them live if you really care.

In my pirating heyday, I took tons of stuff. I have paid most of it off, but I can tell you that my music library would not be creeping up on 3000 songs had I not pirated. Why? It led me to try new bands that had been recommended to me without fronting 10-15 bucks a pop. I told my friends about them, they listened too, and suddenly the band had 6 or more loyal fans, and many many album sales and concert tickets sold. Free advertisement for the band, and most of them see this, only a few bands really oppose the piracy vehemently. this is a corporate ploy because suddenly the middleman is being cut out slowly in the form of the internet and widespread word of mouth advertising.


The industry refuses to change, in fact videogames went downhill. I remember a day with demos being commonplace. Music has no fucking excuse to not adapt to a changing market. Don't charge so much (and nobody say its only ten-fifteen bucks, label gets nine-fourteen of it, they can afford to make the album 6 bucks and take five, and still give the artist a dollar.) and that would cut down on a major amount of piracy. If I can sell 500 products at 5 dollars profit and you can only sell 100 at 15, I make more money. Its called capitalism, give it a shot, dumbasses. Suddenly people like me might make a lot more purchases and you would have 25 extra bucks from me this year if you followed my price suggestion.

On videogames. I have pirated Oblivion, Fallout 3, STALKER Clear Sky, and Crysis. I now own three those games. Guess why I pirated them? BECAUSE I'M ON A POC AND WOULD APPRECIATE A DEMO. None were available, no rentals exist for PC, so I was wise with my money and tried it before I bought it, for a gauge of the game and if it would run smoothly. I downloaded Crysis and when it started to chug I promptly deleted it, and saved myself 50 bucks. I haven't been in the position of having a subpar game I obtained for free, but I can assure you that I would delete it after a day or so, much like a rental, and never bother with it again. So Crytek never lost money from me, and I never lost money to Crytek. It's a win-win.


Piracy law is disgusting. As mentioned earlier, the RIAA goes after the weakest and most vulnerable families. I remember a girl was sick in the hospital, and the RIAA caught wind that she had 7 songs. The amount? Tens of thousands of dollars. The cost of those songs on iTunes (the actual damages)? $6.93. that is cruel and unusual punishment, but the government lets it fly because they cant seem to break away from big business. In a theft case of a tangible object, the criminal must pay back the damages and do community service or maybe jail time. Steal a thousand dollar item? You pay a thousand and maybe get up to 90 days in jail. Most likely community service as long as it wasn't stolen out of someone's house. How can the RIAA sue for a staggering THOUSANDS OF PERCENT more than the actual damages incurred when the shopkeep just gets made whole? Well I'll tell you one thing, the shopkeep is getting fair treatment. Justice is about being made whole, not turning a huge profit and ostracizing the criminal for a seven dollar infraction! Thats classified as a misdemeanor!

So until there is reform, I will pirate. Reform of Piracy laws and the industry. Fair punishment and maybe a corporation who doesn't automatically assume that I have unlimited amounts of cash to blow on stuff I might not like.

And yes, I may be a rare breed of pirate for paying my debts, but would you really deny the poor such a joy as music (I COMPLETELY agree they don't need videogames, however) because the RIAA wants 14 bucks? Absolutely not, music has been and should be free. However with all the tech and distributing costs, it should it least be a lot less than 15 bucks.

Please, Americans, and everyone else too if there is a similar situation in your country, demand more of your government, videogame studios, and the music industry. And all of this may be irrelevant soon if ACTA passes. Its bad. If you haven't heard of it please look it up and write to your government officials if it affects your county.

 

[Sleekgiant]

Do you think I would feel any pity for artists who make millions to lose some revenue.

 

[Bruin]

One of my favorite artists put it this way:

"I would love to give my music away for free. I would like everybody to swim in my albums and I'd mail them to everybody in a Christmas card. I'd also like to get a free Thanskgiving turkey, free clothes for my kids, free food for my table and a brand-new, free fishing boat.

But that's not the world I live in. Until then I'll be against piracy."

To expand on that: It's their livelihoods here. This is how they make money--this is how they eat, how they keep a roof over their heads and whatnot.

So yeah, that $10 album probably won't hurt them in the long run. But what if thousands of people stole that $10 album--or millions. What if somebody stole $10 from you every paycheck? What if ten people did? What if a thousand people did, etc, etc. Rightfully it's their money, whether it's them being greedy or not.

I don't give a damn about the huge record labels, but for the genuine guys, like the one I quoted, it seems wrong to steal their music. Under that banner I can't say I condone piracy at all.

Who the fuck pays $15 for an album anyway? Go on iTunes and get it for $10 at the most.

 

[Shru1kan]

One of my favorite artists put it this way:

"I would love to give my music away for free. I would like everybody to swim in my albums and I'd mail them to everybody in a Christmas card. I'd also like to get a free Thanskgiving turkey, free clothes for my kids, free food for my table and a brand-new, free fishing boat.

But that's not the world I live in. Until then I'll be against piracy."

To expand on that: It's their livelihoods here. This is how they make money--this is how they eat, how they keep a roof over their heads and whatnot.

So yeah, that $10 album probably won't hurt them in the long run. But what if thousands of people stole that $10 album--or millions. What if somebody stole $10 from you every paycheck? What if ten people did? What if a thousand people did, etc, etc. Rightfully it's their money, whether it's them being greedy or not.

I don't give a damn about the huge record labels, but for the genuine guys, like the one I quoted, it seems wrong to steal their music. Under that banner I can't say I condone piracy at all.

Who the fuck pays $15 for an album anyway? Go on iTunes and get it for $10 at the most.

I do like the quote, and I can really respect that. But if that band is under a big record label and not self produced, then they get an abysmally low cut. Like I said, the LABEL can afford to take a hit, but don't fuck artists more than they already have.

Sure, at the end of the day its thousands of people stealing a dollar from the hard working artists, and thats still bad. But the problem cannot be easily circumvented minus going to concerts, which I advocate strongly.

And deluxe editions, paying for the tangible CD (which I like to have), and obscure bands all boast a higher price tag.

 

[Bruin]

One of my favorite artists put it this way:

"I would love to give my music away for free. I would like everybody to swim in my albums and I'd mail them to everybody in a Christmas card. I'd also like to get a free Thanskgiving turkey, free clothes for my kids, free food for my table and a brand-new, free fishing boat.

But that's not the world I live in. Until then I'll be against piracy."

To expand on that: It's their livelihoods here. This is how they make money--this is how they eat, how they keep a roof over their heads and whatnot.

So yeah, that $10 album probably won't hurt them in the long run. But what if thousands of people stole that $10 album--or millions. What if somebody stole $10 from you every paycheck? What if ten people did? What if a thousand people did, etc, etc. Rightfully it's their money, whether it's them being greedy or not.

I don't give a damn about the huge record labels, but for the genuine guys, like the one I quoted, it seems wrong to steal their music. Under that banner I can't say I condone piracy at all.

Who the fuck pays $15 for an album anyway? Go on iTunes and get it for $10 at the most.

I do like the quote, and I can really respect that. But if that band is under a big record label and not self produced, then they get an abysmally low cut. Like I said, the LABEL can afford to take a hit, but don't fuck artists more than they already have.

Sure, at the end of the day its thousands of people stealing a dollar from the hard working artists, and thats still bad. But the problem cannot be easily circumvented minus going to concerts, which I advocate strongly.

And deluxe editions, paying for the tangible CD (which I like to have), and obscure bands all boast a higher price tag.

In that particular case, you're only worsening the problem.

Under that logic, it's okay to steal because that person can make more money anyway. It's flawed logic. You can't tell somebody "I'm stealing from you, but you can work to get your money back,".

We can paint the record labels however we'd like--in the end it's justification for a crime. That doesn't mean it's still not a crime, especially when the justification for the crime doesn't make the law void.

 

[rabidmidget]

Half the reason I don't pirate music is because I like to buy it as physical albums, why? F*cked if I know, so far the only real reason I can think of is that when people ask how music I own I can say (stretches arms) "This much"

Although this may change next year when I go to University and discover what "budget" means.

 

[Irridium]

Just a little nitpick here, Crysis had a demo.

However I agree that the industry itself causes a good chunk of piracy due to ridiculous pricing. Like with used games sales. Publishers kept prices high, Gamestop starts selling used copies for $10 less, the make lots of money, publishers ***** about it.

If they didn't want people buying used, then perhaps they should adapt to the market and lower their costs over time. Hell just lowering them by $5-$10 a month would do wonders.

Sorry OP, kind of got off topic there...

Honestly, your the type of pirate I don't have a problem with. One of the very, very small minority that actually pays when he likes something. I like you. Although I am very, very tired so perhaps I actually don't like you. Either way, I like that you pay for stuff when you end up liking them.

And fuck the RIAA. I hate them with a fiery passion and hope they all die in a fire. They're massive dicks who abuse the system and I hate them.

 

[Paulie92]

My library is around 7000 songs, I haven't downloaded a song of it. Me and my friend share all the music we think the other will like however we both buy the CD's. My favourite description of piracy comes from Henry Rollins on Talk is Cheap Vol. 4 (I think) I can't remember the exact quote but he says something along the lines of:

"If it's a really cool, small indie band trying to make money out of their CD sales buy that, if it's anything else... steal that sh*t motherf*cker!"

 

[mjc0961]

ITS A CRIME.

However, I do pirate. But read on, bear with me, I am not evil incarnate for doing so or a lowly thief.

Yes you are. Try to justify it all you want, if you sleep better at night good for you. But it will never change the fact that you are still just a lowly thief.

 

[BonsaiK]

Do you think I would feel any pity for artists who make millions to lose some revenue.

Probably not, but what about the artists who don't make millions? What about the ones who are signed to tiny independent labels, tour the country in clapped-out vans and station-wagons, sleep on people's lounge room floors because they can't afford hotel rooms, and basically live a hand-to-mouth existence?

 

[eytrvnbmgkhjiuty]

.

 

[iLikeHippos]

Well, first I'd like to say that these arguments are frail at the exception of the RIAA.

Need a demo? Watch youtube clips of games. It sure as hell brought mine attention to F.E.A.R 1, Gears of War, Halo (Machinima) and many other games.
The difference between gameplay videos and demos? That demos allows you to dick around for a short time before doing what you'd do in the gameplay.

Artists earning kazillion of dollars from tours? Think again.

At the end of the day, after all the calculations, they earn, depending on their band members, 80.000$ split between them all. The rest, which is the majority of the money (around 3-5 mil dollars) is paid for heavy fucking expenses. (None of them are Secondary needs such as drugs by the way. That is saved to that small pot.) That's when it's completely full too.
Tours got nothing against their music being sold by the record companies with profit.
... Which is kind of getting pirated... Yeah, you can see why they whine. If it didn't affect them, they wouldn't whine for shit.
Cause whining for no reason isn't cool. It hurts how the peeps looks at you.

All explained in detail by Nikki Sixx at one part in the Heroin Diary. [http://www.topmedicalbooks.com/the-heroin-diaries-a-year-in-the-life-of-a-shattered-rock-star] Read it; it's awesome.

Third off, need music? If you can get Spotify, than you have your problems solved.
Now, not ALL music in the WORLD can be taken in Spotify, but you could always buy the albums which contains the songs you wanted to listen to, than download them to the Spotify play list.
And, using spotify, you don't pay a dime, but the artists still gets paid.

At least, that is what I'm told... if I found out today that was not the case, I wouldn't say I'd stop using it though...

However, It's impossible for me to disagree that those huge corporate buttholes are squeezing out money from families they spot being perfect targets to make people learn what they'll do.
The only comfort I can see in this great unjustice is that they'll someday go... I'm not going to say Hell, cause that fails my logic.
But, someplace... Someplace they'll finally get what is coming to them. When they'll realize what the fuck they've been doing all this time with their power, and too late realizing it.

That's my 'lil rant.

 

[The Lunatic]

If it wasn't for piracy, I would never have bought most of the games I own.

Take from that what you will I guess.

 

[Marmooset]

Do you think I would feel any pity for artists who make millions to lose some revenue.

"I must not have been sleeping, because I was at my desk and not in my bed."
Another, handier guide:
The pirate takes something that's not theirs.
The thief takes something that's not theirs.
What happens in the little squiggle star box means shit.

 

[Hateren47]

*Image*

Do you think I would feel any pity for artists who make millions to lose some revenue.

"I must not have been sleeping, because I was at my desk and not in my bed."
Another, handier guide:
The pirate takes something that's not theirs.
The thief takes something that's not theirs.
What happens in the little squiggle star box means shit.

Actually pirates don't take anything unless we are talking about robbery on the high seas.

OT: I wish the music industry would actually die. Any artist worth their salt can make their own label these days, and just because your can play drums it doesn't entitle you to a gold toilet. Music should be about music and not about being famous like it has become.

Edit:
Or do like Rednex. [http://www.rednexmusic.com/press-release-2010-01-07-ukgerman-no1-band-rednex-partners-with-pirate-bay-for-their-new-release] If these shitkickers can survive on donations and thepiratebay any musician can.

 

[MisterShine]

Onto my main point. I support copyrighting, I think without it at all, there would be a huge lack of innovation as there would be almost no reward for creating new things, as already existing large companies would just copy the design and produce/ship it far faster than any individual ever could. Do I think the system could use some changes, like making things abandonware [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware] much easier than they are done now? Making demos much more widespread, maybe even necessary? Making it illegal to not be able to return a product within a certain period of time, like is done with PC games now? Yeah.

But to me it all comes down to that people should have control over their own ideas. You are taking something to which you have no right. You are stealing. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/steal] Yes, there are some upsides to it. There are some downsides too. But the simple fact of the matter, as the laws are now [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright], you're taking someone else's stuff without permission or right.

I'll plagiarize myself from another thread on the politics board.

Also, I'd like to point out that there are quite a few people who don't understand economics.. ridiculous pricing? Don't like the price? Don't buy it. Surefire way to make the price go down.

 

[Marmooset]

*Image*

Do you think I would feel any pity for artists who make millions to lose some revenue.

"I must not have been sleeping, because I was at my desk and not in my bed."
Another, handier guide:
The pirate takes something that's not theirs.
The thief takes something that's not theirs.
What happens in the little squiggle star box means shit.

Actually pirates don't take anything unless we are talking about robbery on the high seas.

Not taking anything? So that song/program/movie just magically appeared on the hard drive?

The rationalization is amazing.

 

[Frungy]

This has been done to death so let's put a different spin on things. Modern culture is fast-moving and heavily media referenced. In order to socialise one needs a certain minimum level of media awareness, because everyday language is filled with references to modern media, for example "Dolp!" (a simpsons reference that makes no sense if you've never seen a simpsons episode). I was chatting online yesterday and I was probably the oldest person in the conversation and I wasn't following a lot of what was said. I occassionally poked someone for clarification and almost always it was a reference to a movie or a band. I'm fairly up to date on stuff, but I live in a foreign country so I generally don't watch the same TV or listen to the same music so a lot of the stuff blindsides me.

Given that basic human interaction and communication is a human right is it legally and morally defensible to exclude people from accessing certain material? Surely this is the heart of the "public domain" argument, that once something becomes iconic and enters everyday language and becomes core to interacting with society then it can logically no longer be copyrighted since copyrighting it would exclude those who don't have the means to buy it from normal human interactions and so prejudice their human rights.

I'm not talking about designer jeans here, and defending the right of someone to look cool. I'm talking about the media industry wanting to have their cake and eat it. They want their material spread across every media, on the side of every bus, playing on radio stations and TVs and the to be the topic of conversation in every playground... and then whine when people consider it part of the public domain and view it as free to take.

Sorry media industry, you've got to choose where to draw the line. If something is so popular that access to it is required to be normal then you can't whine. This may punish extreme success, but it is also Democratic, and that's the society we live in, a democracy. Capitalism does not supercede or cancel out democracy. There are so many cases where capitalism has superceded democracy (e.g. vote buying, industry lobby groups, etc) and universally they've resulted in societal injustices.

So go out there and vote for a politician who wants to curtail copyright laws. That's the only way this is going to change.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Probably not, but what about the artists who don't make millions? What about the ones who are signed to tiny independent labels, tour the country in clapped-out vans and station-wagons, sleep on people's lounge room floors because they can't afford hotel rooms, and basically live a hand-to-mouth existence?

They're livin' the dream.