Piracy encourages innovation?

[Tipsy Giant]

I am too poor to buy movies music and games, I pirate, if anyone thinks that means I shouldn't get to experience the media at no cost to anyone, you only believe so because you want to have what others don't and that is due to your weirdly small member!

What have you heard about my member?

This has to be the worst pro-pirate argument i have ever heard. People who buy games legitimately are snobbing you? It's such a sound argument I can't believe the pirate party hasn't adopted it as a slogan. Do you know how much a game cost? On average $60 brand spanking new... if you saved 2 dollars everyday for a month you could buy that game brand spanking new... or you could wait several months and buy it for significantly cheaper.

No sir! I say it is you pirates who are snobs, you put your fingers in everything and play it until you are bored with it, promising to purchase it if its good, and then cast it away and pirate another game because even though you love that game, and you played 150 hours of it, it still wasn't good enough for you to save up some money to buy it, even at a discount.

Plus I don't know how poor you are if you have a computer that can play the games that come out now, and can afford to pay for an internet subscription, but golly jee willikers... your wallet just happens to be empty when you visit a torrenting site.

And you OP, piracy does not encourage innovation, it encourages more piracy and lost profits. Loss of profits = less risk taking by developers. Less Risk on New IP's seems like exactly the opposite no?

This poster said everything I was going to and much more eloquently.

The "I cant afford it so no-one is losing out" arguement is utter twaddle. I cant afford to eat at Michelin Starred restaurant every night but that doesnt give me the right to run in off the street and steal their stuff.

Try saving up your money and then buying it, this culture of instant gratification is half the reason the Western Worlds economy is in the crapper

But in your example the restaurant lose something physical when you steal whereas with digital distribution you can only argue that they may have lost money if you were to have bought it instead

 

[Tipsy Giant]

But if I steal that car the dude whos car it is doesn't have a car anymore, if I torrent a movie for example, who finds out? I always go to the cinema to watch movies i'm excited about but if it just came out online and isn't available another way and I wanna see it, whos to stop me?

The car doesn't belong to anyway except BMW, it just came of the shop floor. They miss out on the profit they are entitled to for the work they put into designing and building that car. Its no different then pirating a movie or game, the developers and production crew put a great deal of time and effort into these creations not just so some schmuck and come along and steal their work. Having put in the time and effort it is their right to receive the profits from it, it is not your right to play or watch it.

I completely agree! If anyone should make money of of their creation it should be them, however, If I choose to download it for free and try it out, if I enjoy the game and then buy some of the studios older games, if I then look into their next project and save up for it.... That is the real pirates at work, trying something usually leads to buying something

 

[loremazd]

No, Tipsy Giant is right. If you're pirating something, you never intended to buy and there never was a potential sale. It's all on your conscience. There is a potential sale being lost in case someone buys a used copy or rents/borrows a game, thus giving the money to the retailer (boom, sale lost!) and then pirating taking the game/software without a single cent money unit going to the publisher. And there's even no conscience involved - he paid! - hell, he might not even know he got a used copy. But that's a whole other can of worms.

Besides, the developers already got their paychecks. It's the investors who are at risk of not getting their money back. Naturally, it isn't as black and white for indie and small developer crowd, but the "market" there is smaller, prices are lower and piracy risk is thus (theoretically) reduced, which is what the thread originally addressed.

*sighs*

Fine.

You lot win.

Everything will be fine. People should continue to take things and claim ownership/entitlement to products for free. There is nothing on the line. In fact, why don't I just support this Software company that I am working for free? I mean, it's not like I'll the money, I can just take all the entertainment I want and not bother with paying for it. And while I'm at it I will write this novel here and then publish it into the hands of the masses for free as well. Not like my time is worth jack, eh?

Yeh.

Sounds good.

*shakes her head and leaves*

Anah'ya, I completely agree with you! Whether it's an author writing a book, a musician recording a song, or a developer making a game, they all deserve to see the fruits of their labour. Denying them that right is completely wrong.
Plus, if you can afford to pay for a decent internet connection, and buy an up-to-date computer, (several hundreds of pounds right there) I don't see how suddenly you have no money to purchase games.

No one has a "right" to sell anything just because they made something. It's always up to the consumer (except in cases where laws force people to buy a product) to decide if something is worth purchasing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You have the right to sell anything you make, sure people may or may not buy it, but et me break this down to you, while you may not agree on the specific price it's being sold at, If you use it the one who made it does have the right to your money. More than that, the law is on their side if they ever decide to sue you. Given legal costs it's unlikely, but the law is firmly on their side.

 

[loremazd]

But if I steal that car the dude whos car it is doesn't have a car anymore, if I torrent a movie for example, who finds out? I always go to the cinema to watch movies i'm excited about but if it just came out online and isn't available another way and I wanna see it, whos to stop me?

The car doesn't belong to anyway except BMW, it just came of the shop floor. They miss out on the profit they are entitled to for the work they put into designing and building that car. Its no different then pirating a movie or game, the developers and production crew put a great deal of time and effort into these creations not just so some schmuck and come along and steal their work. Having put in the time and effort it is their right to receive the profits from it, it is not your right to play or watch it.

I completely agree! If anyone should make money of of their creation it should be them, however, If I choose to download it for free and try it out, if I enjoy the game and then buy some of the studios older games, if I then look into their next project and save up for it.... That is the real pirates at work, trying something usually leads to buying something

There is no such thing as a real pirate or a fake pirate. They are all pirates and they're each individuals with different moral standards.

-most- pirates aren't noble dogooders with illusions of changing the industy, they're media hoarders. They realised they can shoplift without getting caught and are going on a spree.

 

[GeneticallyModifiedDucks]

Edit: Mispost. Don't mind me.

 

[The Hairminator]

Everything will be fine. People should continue to take things and claim ownership/entitlement to products for free. There is nothing on the line. In fact, why don't I just support this Software company that I am working for free? I mean, it's not like I'll the money, I can just take all the entertainment I want and not bother with paying for it. And while I'm at it I will write this novel here and then publish it into the hands of the masses for free as well. Not like my time is worth jack, eh?

Whether or not they should is hardly relevant. People will still buy your game and people will pirate your game, no matter what. You can't stop either of those factions, so you have to take them into account and encourage people to buy your game and support you. The market is fast and harsh, so if the "buy" camp isn't big enough, you have failed and possibly bankrupted. Make a better game next time, or use "better" DRM. Your best bet in the 21st century? Be Blizzard or Valve.

You're missing the point. The point is that there shouldn't have to be any annoying DRMs, because people shouldn't pirate. It has nothing to do with what the situation looks like, it's about what it should look like, wether it be realistic due to human nature (or otherwise) or not.

I'm so glad that was your response, I actually am recording an album that will be free to download, so when it is available i'll let you know

I still have a feeling that if music was your only income, and you felt that your music was good enough to make money from, you would.

 

[TheComedown]

I completely agree! If anyone should make money of of their creation it should be them, however, If I choose to download it for free and try it out, if I enjoy the game and then buy some of the studios older games, if I then look into their next project and save up for it.... That is the real pirates at work, trying something usually leads to buying something

No. No it doesn't. Have a look at aPods said again.

No sir! I say it is you pirates who are snobs, you put your fingers in everything and play it until you are bored with it, promising to purchase it if its good, and then cast it away and pirate another game because even though you love that game, and you played 150 hours of it, it still wasn't good enough for you to save up some money to buy it, even at a discount.

He is right, you all say this, but never follow through, the game is never worth it no matter how good you think the game or the dev may be. Stop lying to yourselves. Name one situation where you pirated a game then bought it or another game from the same developer? Cause I assure you while you all think this is what you do, none (if not, a tiny minority) actually do.

Wait what? "That is the real pirates at work"? So real pirates aren't actually all about me me me, pillage and steal? It's all about try before you buy? That doesn't make any sense, if it were measurable on a scale those that "try before you buy" and actually follow though on the buy part would be less of a pirate.

 

[CountryMike]

It could instigate creative ways to compensate with piracy. Developers could and should come up with new and fresh ideas to give the retail game an edge over a pirated version.

It's all about offering a better product than your competitor. In this case the 'competitor' being the pirate version.

 

[Anah'ya]

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to JaymesFogarty, you can tell because that's who I quoted. Learn something every day eh.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't in the moment realize what an incredible break of etiquette it is to quote another poster whom I was not previously in a conversation with. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for pointing this disgusting violation of unwritten rules out to me.

*tips her hat and takes a deep bow*

 

[Delusibeta]

I don't think so. In fact, I think it kills the industry; as more games are pirated and made easier to steal, fewer people will want to release their games on the PC. Piracy is much, much less prevailent on the PS3 and the Xbox 360, and lately most developers have been making their games for the consoles primarily, knowing where the money is.

Can I just point out that, in my opinion, there is actually a trend towards making a PC version lately. For example, Dead Rising 2 has a PC version, despite the first game being a 360 exclusive. In fact, the majority of major multiplatform titles (ignoring the Hero and Rock Band games) seem to be getting a PC release. Certainly, there's been far less console-exclusives released then there was a few years ago.

 

[BENZOOKA]

No it does not, and is in fact just another pathetic excuse that pirates use in an attempt to make their piracy look "noble" as apposed to just being something people use to obtain free shit.

/thread at first reply.

OP's idea fails. Hard. Popular titles get pirated just because they are more popular and not-so-popular titles tend to be more experimental.

 

[Woodsey]

I will never understand what it is about "anti-pirates" that always results is such over the top douchebag behaviour especially since most of them are just pirates of a different flavour anyway.

Care to expand on this?

He's using pirate-logic (AARRRR).

Agreed with your first post as well. Why would people attempt new ideas that will likely sell less initially anyway, as well as having to deal with thieves.

I don't think so. In fact, I think it kills the industry; as more games are pirated and made easier to steal, fewer people will want to release their games on the PC. Piracy is much, much less prevailent on the PS3 and the Xbox 360, and lately most developers have been making their games for the consoles primarily, knowing where the money is.

Can I just point out that, in my opinion, there is actually a trend towards making a PC version lately. For example, Dead Rising 2 has a PC version, despite the first game being a 360 exclusive. In fact, the majority of major multiplatform titles (ignoring the Hero and Rock Band games) seem to be getting a PC release. Certainly, there's been far less console-exclusives released then there was a few years ago.

To be honest it ebbs and flows; 2006 was awful yet 2007 was amazing (from what I can remember of the two).

 

[loremazd]

No, Tipsy Giant is right. If you're pirating something, you never intended to buy and there never was a potential sale. It's all on your conscience. There is a potential sale being lost in case someone buys a used copy or rents/borrows a game, thus giving the money to the retailer (boom, sale lost!) and then pirating taking the game/software without a single cent money unit going to the publisher. And there's even no conscience involved - he paid! - hell, he might not even know he got a used copy. But that's a whole other can of worms.

Besides, the developers already got their paychecks. It's the investors who are at risk of not getting their money back. Naturally, it isn't as black and white for indie and small developer crowd, but the "market" there is smaller, prices are lower and piracy risk is thus (theoretically) reduced, which is what the thread originally addressed.

*sighs*

Fine.

You lot win.

Everything will be fine. People should continue to take things and claim ownership/entitlement to products for free. There is nothing on the line. In fact, why don't I just support this Software company that I am working for free? I mean, it's not like I'll the money, I can just take all the entertainment I want and not bother with paying for it. And while I'm at it I will write this novel here and then publish it into the hands of the masses for free as well. Not like my time is worth jack, eh?

Yeh.

Sounds good.

*shakes her head and leaves*

Anah'ya, I completely agree with you! Whether it's an author writing a book, a musician recording a song, or a developer making a game, they all deserve to see the fruits of their labour. Denying them that right is completely wrong.
Plus, if you can afford to pay for a decent internet connection, and buy an up-to-date computer, (several hundreds of pounds right there) I don't see how suddenly you have no money to purchase games.

No one has a "right" to sell anything just because they made something. It's always up to the consumer (except in cases where laws force people to buy a product) to decide if something is worth purchasing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You have the right to sell anything you make, sure people may or may not buy it, but et me break this down to you, while you may not agree on the specific price it's being sold at, If you use it the one who made it does have the right to your money. More than that, the law is on their side if they ever decide to sue you. Given legal costs it's unlikely, but the law is firmly on their side.

Did I mention "using it without paying"? No, learn to fuckin' read and lay off the "h" and "a" keys, your keyboard will thank you.

All I am pointing out is that "making something" does not entitle you to money. BTW, if no one buys it, then you didn't sell it.

I find it laughable that you think anyone is arguing that anyone can be forced to buy anything. The consumer does not have to buy it, yes, nor do they have the right to get and use the product anyway. Your statement has no meaning because it is completely wrong. You have the right to sell any product you make, though the stipulation being you dont use anyone else' patented property to do so. That doesn't mean you -will- sell everything you make.

Making a product entitles you to demand money for its use, and the law protects that. That doesn't mean you -will- get money for it.

 

[loremazd]

I completely agree! If anyone should make money of of their creation it should be them, however, If I choose to download it for free and try it out, if I enjoy the game and then buy some of the studios older games, if I then look into their next project and save up for it.... That is the real pirates at work, trying something usually leads to buying something

No. No it doesn't. Have a look at aPods said again.

No sir! I say it is you pirates who are snobs, you put your fingers in everything and play it until you are bored with it, promising to purchase it if its good, and then cast it away and pirate another game because even though you love that game, and you played 150 hours of it, it still wasn't good enough for you to save up some money to buy it, even at a discount.

He is right, you all say this, but never follow through, the game is never worth it no matter how good you think the game or the dev may be. Stop lying to yourselves. Name one situation where you pirated a game then bought it or another game from the same developer? Cause I assure you while you all think this is what you do, none (if not, a tiny minority) actually do.

Wait what? "That is the real pirates at work"? So real pirates aren't actually all about me me me, pillage and steal? It's all about try before you buy? That doesn't make any sense, if it were measurable on a scale those that "try before you buy" and actually follow though on the buy part would be less of a pirate.

The only real excuse I can buy to pirate is to test if it will work, which I did with dead rising 2. Glad for it to, as it did not work, and I had to get it for the console. This, also, is why I think all PC games should have short demos, as the multitude of operating systems, video cards, sound cards, and drivers really mean there are a lot more bugs in pc games.

 

[Ralen-Sharr]

If I understand the pro-pirate argument correctly, it's not you stole (in the example posted earlier) a BMW from a person. You made a replica of the BMW and drove that away. Nothing is lost, just someone gaining.

I don't think that example really works for the idea the anti-pirate people are trying to get across.

Maybe this will work a little better.

Company A spends hundreds of millions of dollars researching a cure for some kind of cancer. They find that if you make a soup with everyday ingredients XYZ and let it ferment for a month it will cure that one particular cancer. A leak happens and the "cure" is made public. Everyone with that particular kind of cancer is cured, and the company goes broke since nobody bothered to pay them back for the investment. Now any company that innovates an inexpensive way to cure cancer will destroy any evidence that said cure existed since it's a death sentence for the company. Less risk taking delays medicines years and increases costs exponentially.

Does this convey the point?

 

[spartan231490]

I was reading through some articles about how The PC is concidered to be one of the best platforms for releasing games for new developers due to the low barriers of entry, and that it allows them to be more experimental with their games and a guide about the problems of piracy to the industry, something weird occured to me.

Piracy encourages innovation?

It's a widely know fact that the more popular a game is, the more likely it is that it will be cracked immediately and be pirated by many incredibly rapidly. As such, it seems like it would actually act as something of a leveler in this regard.

'Safe' games tend to succeed through marketing and excitement before anything actually happens, which is also one of the things that increases the rate at which piracy occurs, while experimental games tend to be a lot more polarised. A failed experiment might be a flop, but chances are that crackers are going to overlook it if it truely id terrible, while successful experimental games tends to gather a sort of cult status where the fans want to support the developer.

Looking at it, it seems as though piracy actually discourages mass market appeal, and instead encourages more experimental, niche titles. Looking though it, it seems to make some sort of sense, but it just feels wrong.

What?!
this makes no sense. Piracy, if anything, would discourage innovators becuase it's more time effort and money and people play the game you worked so hard for without paying you a penny.