Piracy, simply put.
- Thread starter RubyT
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This post made coming back to peruse the thread worthwhile.Fawxy said:THIS THREAD IN A NUTSHELL:
OP:
ESCAPIST:
OP:
Just give it a rest everyone. Seriously.
Call it a gray issue all you want, debate semantics until your face turns blue, justify/vilify it all you want... it doesn't change anything. Pirates will continue to pirate, and continue to hurt the industry.
The majority of internet pirates are greedy, lazy, self-entitled, freeloading cuntwads who don't deserve your time of day. So you know what? Don't give it to them.
Next time you see a thread like this, throw up the internationally (except Sweden, the dirty bastards) accepted greeting towards an internet pirate: a great big motherfucking middle finger.
Just an interesting point:
Piracy at the end user could almost be considered victimless, excluding the loss of income for the producer and and creator. However, recent research into the trends of piracy are displaying an alarming tendency of root level piracy, that is piracy at it's source,to be the result of organised crime. Articles in The Australian, the Telegraph, and a book adopted by the Australian Institute of Criminology as acceptable research material, "Film piracy, organized crime, and terrorism" support this theory. As Organised crime is a large and robust organisational structure with many interests in the criminal world it is clear that any money coming to such an enterprise through "Relatively inoccent" means such as piracy is still ultimately going to support drug traffic, murder, and other such unsavoury areas.
Oh, and to the OP, If you wanted a philisophical discussion that is what you got. However, if you wanted a philisophical debate where each side presented thier view objectively either pro or con piracy, then you should have ensured that your argument was devoid of falacy.
Piracy at the end user could almost be considered victimless, excluding the loss of income for the producer and and creator. However, recent research into the trends of piracy are displaying an alarming tendency of root level piracy, that is piracy at it's source,to be the result of organised crime. Articles in The Australian, the Telegraph, and a book adopted by the Australian Institute of Criminology as acceptable research material, "Film piracy, organized crime, and terrorism" support this theory. As Organised crime is a large and robust organisational structure with many interests in the criminal world it is clear that any money coming to such an enterprise through "Relatively inoccent" means such as piracy is still ultimately going to support drug traffic, murder, and other such unsavoury areas.
Oh, and to the OP, If you wanted a philisophical discussion that is what you got. However, if you wanted a philisophical debate where each side presented thier view objectively either pro or con piracy, then you should have ensured that your argument was devoid of falacy.
Okay. Piracy.
If I download a game, the developers don't get paid.
But what if, like me, you borrow games from your friends? Or the video store? I borrow an Xbox game a week from my local video store. Does that make me a pirate? Because the developers aren't getting my money?
Under Anti-Piracy laws, they'd have to be banned too. And all content would have to be strictly enforced so I don't loan my friends my Xbox games.
Also, a full price game in Australia is $100-$120. In America I believe it is still around $60. Why? When our dollar is equal or greater than yours and has been for several months?
That's why I 'Pirate' games from my friends or the video store. Because I don't like being ripped off.
If I download a game, the developers don't get paid.
But what if, like me, you borrow games from your friends? Or the video store? I borrow an Xbox game a week from my local video store. Does that make me a pirate? Because the developers aren't getting my money?
Under Anti-Piracy laws, they'd have to be banned too. And all content would have to be strictly enforced so I don't loan my friends my Xbox games.
Also, a full price game in Australia is $100-$120. In America I believe it is still around $60. Why? When our dollar is equal or greater than yours and has been for several months?
That's why I 'Pirate' games from my friends or the video store. Because I don't like being ripped off.
So is it against the rules of the forum admit to breaking the law or... is this discussion too heavy for The Escapist even though piracy is an incredibly relevant topic to gaming?lRookiel said:
Or are you actually mad because it's repetitive?
well I suppose your right that it isn't theft
It is much more equatable to counterfeiting
Yeah, I'm making money out of thin air but it's not like anyone else is losing money therefore it's okay.
Edit: on second thought we should actually refer to piracy as counterfeiting instead of theft I DARE someone to tell me it isn't counterfeiting.
It is much more equatable to counterfeiting
Yeah, I'm making money out of thin air but it's not like anyone else is losing money therefore it's okay.
Edit: on second thought we should actually refer to piracy as counterfeiting instead of theft I DARE someone to tell me it isn't counterfeiting.
uh...these people.
Look, im not saying i dont pirate...but i wont say i do because im pleading the fifth.
But i dont try and cover it up as something other than stealing. ITS STEALING!
And because of that i do try to buy the actual product to support the artist.
stop trying to cover it up by saying 'nothing is taken' if you made music or something and your not breaking even and you find out hundreds of people were torrenting it you would be pissed too.
Stop acting like its a noble cause, the content was produced to and intended to be sold, and pirateing does not allow that. Stop acting like its not, if you pirate, fine, but dont try and defend it as anything other than you dont want to shell out money for it.
Look, im not saying i dont pirate...but i wont say i do because im pleading the fifth.
But i dont try and cover it up as something other than stealing. ITS STEALING!
And because of that i do try to buy the actual product to support the artist.
stop trying to cover it up by saying 'nothing is taken' if you made music or something and your not breaking even and you find out hundreds of people were torrenting it you would be pissed too.
Stop acting like its a noble cause, the content was produced to and intended to be sold, and pirateing does not allow that. Stop acting like its not, if you pirate, fine, but dont try and defend it as anything other than you dont want to shell out money for it.
I've never changed what I was talking about. Where does it say they are both mutually exclusive?Alterego-X said:
You ever heard of "The tragedy of the commons". Look it up. That's basically piracy in a nutshell. He is hurting profits. Saying "I wouldn't have paid for it even if I could afford it" is the single, feeblest excuse you can possibly have. That's the same thing you hear people who rob stores say. You're aren't taking money away from them, but you are using a product that they have put a price tag on for absolutely no fee, which in turn hurts them later down the road.
Is it as bad as straight up stealing from some one? No. That's why we get people like you who have rather deranged views when it comes to things like this. It hurts the people who made the game. If you really wouldn't have paid to play the games in the first place, than tough shit. You don't get to play the game.
This... makes absolutely no sense. Seriously, the more I read it the more it just baffles me how you came to this conclusion.
Is this really how you justify piracy? Because this is pathetic.
Theft by taking out stuff from the original game to sell later would be one. Don't give me the "then don't buy it" clause, that's just giving producers the shoddy logic of "people like having half a game".Mortai Gravesend said:
Sure, I don't 'have' to buy it. But say that, for example, I just wanted to do something like take a character model from it for research. Would I shell 60 bucks out just to have that character model? No. Of course, this is a particularly shoddy explanation because not everyone would do it just to see that model.
I believe in the removal of society where things like greed are replaced with the ways of old where skill meant more than how much money you have. If I can't afford to shell out money for every single game I'm curious about, then I'll use my 'skill' to be able to play it anyways. Call it unethical, but so is everyone else.
I always have to wonder when I see these kinda arguments that Piracy isnt that bad how the person would feel if they were the victim of piracy and if they'd feel the same.
...
That and why it matters if its from a corporation or an individual. If you pirate from an individual, just means decrease the chance of another corporation forming.
not that i condone piracy, and the argument the OP put forth is rather... flawed :/
EDIT:
So the first example is perfectly legal to do. The second dealing with personal relations borrowing is under the Used/second hand side of the argument. Neither is piracy.
As to your price comparison, blame the market you live in. its still no excuse to pirate, since most of the reasons (if not all) can be boiled back down to your country's politics/laws/views on the game industry and not the developer themselves just saying lets screw over australia, cause its funny.
EDIT2:
If you needed a <url=http://www.edmunds.com/rolls-royce/phantom/2011/?sub=sedan>car for the future would you spend:
A) $380000
B) Nothing.
Then in theory no one is going to PAY for it when they can just take it. it doesnt mean its legal, and it certainly doesnt mean its right.
And if everyone just up and said fuckthat noise Im not paying for anyhting again, then money would stop circulating, and slowly as it added up, that means less money is in a market, which is less to go around (this assuming we dont want to print more and avoid inflating the currency). No money circulating, no money that can be used to buy or pay things and reward someone who has done work. No work, no product. Which is all well and good if its just a few companies for games, but then you start to see gas going away, farmers stop growing food, and the power is no longer working. because why pay when you can just take, completely ignoring the otherside of that financial market equation.
...
That and why it matters if its from a corporation or an individual. If you pirate from an individual, just means decrease the chance of another corporation forming.
not that i condone piracy, and the argument the OP put forth is rather... flawed :/
EDIT:
If you borrow through a store (which is called RENTING legally) and is a practice developers already knowof and plan their incomes around. if you borrow from a friend, its second hand, so the game is paid for and the corporation doesnt lose profit.Malidictuim said:
So the first example is perfectly legal to do. The second dealing with personal relations borrowing is under the Used/second hand side of the argument. Neither is piracy.
As to your price comparison, blame the market you live in. its still no excuse to pirate, since most of the reasons (if not all) can be boiled back down to your country's politics/laws/views on the game industry and not the developer themselves just saying lets screw over australia, cause its funny.
EDIT2:
then why pay for anything? If you can get it for free through some illegal act (which what you're doing is illegally copying an idea that is produced and owned by someone, which is copyright infringement [and still a theft if some way where you're taking the idea and not providing compensation for it], which is still illegal) then why not? lets take the car example.Wargamer said:
If you needed a <url=http://www.edmunds.com/rolls-royce/phantom/2011/?sub=sedan>car for the future would you spend:
A) $380000
B) Nothing.
Then in theory no one is going to PAY for it when they can just take it. it doesnt mean its legal, and it certainly doesnt mean its right.
And if everyone just up and said fuckthat noise Im not paying for anyhting again, then money would stop circulating, and slowly as it added up, that means less money is in a market, which is less to go around (this assuming we dont want to print more and avoid inflating the currency). No money circulating, no money that can be used to buy or pay things and reward someone who has done work. No work, no product. Which is all well and good if its just a few companies for games, but then you start to see gas going away, farmers stop growing food, and the power is no longer working. because why pay when you can just take, completely ignoring the otherside of that financial market equation.
Your entire argument is null and void from the first sentence. Piracy is stealing. The act of downloading an illegal copy of [insert item here] is the theft of digital property, which is copyrighted under the law of that country, which constitutes stealing. The item my not be a tangible product, but you're still committing a crime.RubyT said:
There. Can we please be done with these moronic threads now? -_-