Pirates, and how the US dealt with them.

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ButtonedDownParadox

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Aug 11, 2008
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rasman said:
Bizarre, I heard theres been more attacks on US freighters from other Somali pirates...makes me wonder how hard is it to keep a bunch of guys in a wooden fishing dinghy off a mass of steel like those super freighters?
They do have some serious equipment. Shortly after the hostage we're now discussing was rescued some pirates attacked another ship with at least one RPG and automatic weaponry. I'd imagine it'd be difficult to defend from an in-water ambush with the goal of least amount of casualties and thus they end up getting boarded.

Not to mention they'd probably have to go through all sorts of hoops before gaining authorization to return fire since again they're out at sea and could easily be sparking a national incident when they don't follow the protocol of the territory they're in. This is just coming from a layman though. It may very well be just as simple as you put it.
 

squirrelman42

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Dec 13, 2007
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I think that the pirates are talking big, but once the various pirate factions start getting their faces pushed in by navy seals, then they'll run away screaming.
 

ElephantGuts

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Jul 9, 2008
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Yeah this sounds good to me. I don't see how anyone could possibly be angry about this or take offense at all. They're pirates; they steal your shit and often kill you in the process. So what do you do? Kill them and take your shit back. That's how the world works. They're criminals.

And I am glad to hear that the snipers performed as well as possible and took them out with 1 shot kills. With all the money we're put into our military, they'd better be able to shoot three pirates without wasting any extra bullets.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Just look at what the French are doing, fucking owning and they seem to be fine.

Personally, I think it was the right choice, although now since there was another attack, although foiled the U.S. will have to step up patrolles and start escorting ships through that area
 

DrHaphazard

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Apr 15, 2009
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Also if anyone here is actually interested in the problem beyond the knee jerk reaction phase, theres a book out called Dangerous Waters. It was released in 2002 and is about the huge piracy problem in the Straights of Malacca, just south of Singapore.

The book answers the question of how exactly a small band of pirates can cripple a freighter as long as a skyscraper is tall. Quick overview though:

A) High efficiency boats = less crew = less costs & less protection
B) Boats are generally fairly low to the water, 15-20 feet down to the sea, an easy climb for a sailor
C) Minimum of safety measures, again to save on costs but also because the industry simply has not saw fit to change its ways yet in response to the new era of piracy
D) Arming crews is frowned upon in the industry. Amongst other reasons, any boat that comes into a port bearing weapons must register them with the authorities. This takes time in an industry where every hour lost cuts into profits.

As to why there are pirates in the first place, its simple. The benefit-to-risk ratio is astronomically in favor of the pirates. We hear mostly about the hijackings which are potentially massively lucrative, but way more common are simple cases of theft. If a somali gets his hands on the crew's cash and the stuff in the lockbox thats literally a treasure trove.

The international community has in fact been mobilised on this matter, and in no way are the Americans alone out there "policing the world" as some people on these forums will undoubtedly whine about. The sad fact is, however, that Somalia's failed state status will make any inroads extremely difficult.
 

tcolberg

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Oct 31, 2007
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The proper solution to support the new government in Somalia so that the country stabilizes and unemployment goes down, thereby reducing the incentives for Somalis to become pirates.
 

DrHaphazard

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Apr 15, 2009
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tcolberg said:
The proper solution to support the new government in Somalia so that the country stabilizes and unemployment goes down, thereby reducing the incentives for Somalis to become pirates.
Heh no one doubts that, and the man who figures out how to do so will earn his Nobel Peace Prize.
 

Xvito

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Aug 16, 2008
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That Dude With A Face said:
Xvito said:
That Dude With A Face said:
Xvito said:
Pumpkin_Eater said:
The only way to effectively deal with pirates is to kill them. Anything else encourages further attacks.
Yes, that's unquestionably the best way to deal with a problem, you get rid of it. /Sarcasm
How is that sarcasm? The best way to get rid of a problem is to eliminate the problem. No problem = no worries.
No, the best way to deal with a problem is not to get rid of it, the best way is to deal with it...
Yea, and then it becomes a problem AGAIN. Get rid of the problem to deal with it PERMANENTLY
No, if you get rid of the problem you don't deal with permanently, if get rid of it you get rid of it permanently.
 

Ghost1800

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Apr 8, 2009
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http://www.unep.org.bh/Publications/Somalia/TSUNAMI_SOMALIA_LAYOUT.pdf

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html

I found these posted by someone on some other forums and I thought they would be relevant to the discussion. I think it might help explain the root of the problem if we start looking at things from both sides perspectives.
 

Skullcheese501

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Oct 17, 2008
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ElephantGuts" post="18.107326.1780912 said:
That's how the world works. They're criminals.But The problem with killing them is the fact that they are criminals we put criminals away for crimes they commit so i think killing them is the wrong way to deal with it.
 

[zonking great]

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Aug 20, 2008
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Oh, so the poor Somalis are attacking cargo vessels because we are stealing their fish? Not because they are LUNATICS IN A SHIT BIN OF A COUNTRY THAT HAS NOT FUNCTIONED PROPERLY SINCE ITS INCEPTION?
 

WolfThomas

Man must have a code.
Dec 21, 2007
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We discussion the issue of arming crews just recently:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.106950
 

teisjm

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Mar 3, 2009
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Danzorz said:
teisjm said:
Couldn't watch the video since i'm at work but from what i read the US snipers took 3 pirates out with headshots, cause they held a captain hostage.
Only right thing to do in the situation.

Keep shooting pirates with hostages, cause if they just send them back to Somalia they'll be on the sea again in a few days, because Somalia doesn't have the rescources to prosecute them or do anything about them.
Because their country is fucked you gotta' kill em'! I love this logic /sarcasm.
I can't blame the snipers, they were going to harm a captain.
What i meant was that you should take out those who takes hostages. thought that was pretty clear. I'm in no way saying anything about killing everyone from Somalia, that would be sick and nazi-level-evil.

My point is that if they're (pirates) willing to hold innoscent people at gunpoint and possibly kill them (hostages) then they're legit targets for snipers.

As a more long sighted solution they should try to establish some sort of industry or something so the people os Somalia would have a chance to get jobs and not end up with young men resolving to piracy, but poverty doesn't make piracy any more legit.

What i meant with the thing was that if they risk the lives of the hostages by trying to take the pirates as prisoners instead of shooting them they're not solving anyting because they'll be back at sea the next day with new hosatges.

edit: found a better way to clarify the response to your comment

They should be shot because they take hostages and are pirates.
Prison is a privilege criminals have in countries rich enough to support it, not a demand the criminals can make IMO.
 

soren7550

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Dec 18, 2008
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ElephantGuts said:
Yeah this sounds good to me. I don't see how anyone could possibly be angry about this or take offense at all. They're pirates; they steal your shit and often kill you in the process. So what do you do? Kill them and take your shit back. That's how the world works. They're criminals.

And I am glad to hear that the snipers performed as well as possible and took them out with 1 shot kills. With all the money we're put into our military, they'd better be able to shoot three pirates without wasting any extra bullets.
Too right mate.

Xvito said:
That Dude With A Face said:
Xvito said:
That Dude With A Face said:
Xvito said:
Pumpkin_Eater said:
The only way to effectively deal with pirates is to kill them. Anything else encourages further attacks.
Yes, that's unquestionably the best way to deal with a problem, you get rid of it. /Sarcasm
How is that sarcasm? The best way to get rid of a problem is to eliminate the problem. No problem = no worries.
No, the best way to deal with a problem is not to get rid of it, the best way is to deal with it...
Yea, and then it becomes a problem AGAIN. Get rid of the problem to deal with it PERMANENTLY
No, if you get rid of the problem you don't deal with permanently, if get rid of it you get rid of it permanently.
OK, let's take a look back at history: We got rid of Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire, and they're no longer problems. Negotiations didn't work, and what did? Going in and eliminating the problem.