Pissed at my English teacher, justified?

[cheesyman987]

I remember earlier this year when something like this came up. We had to write about the themes of loyalty and betrayal in a text type apart from novels. When I wanted to do Catherine because of the interactivity and player control of the story, I had to do some convincing before I was allowed to do it.

My friend, however wanted to do the Bible... He wasn't allowed to do it until he argued literally until the day before it was due.

I got 86% (I went well over the limit, wanted to add plenty of detail), my friend got 46% (did it the day it was due, barely got in the minimum amount of time), so at least some teachers take games seriously... Unlike our government (I am Australian).

 

[Dags90]

The teacher did not specify what was or wasn't art, it is on her if your definitions clashed.

And that's a discussion that could, and should have been held before any sort of writing occurred. OP was being egoistic and myopic in assuming video games are generally accepted as an art form. That he waited only until after he got his graded paper back to have this discussion is entirely his fault. As I said before, this could have been a two minute discussion after class the day the assignment was given.

Being pissed at his English teacher is certainly easier than being disappointed in himself though.

 

[Aidinthel]

Weren't games declared as officially being art a while ago?

Sort of. I don't think there's any official definition of what is and is not art, but the National Endowment for the Arts is about as good an authority on the subject as any.

 

[inquisiti0n]

1. Video Games aren't art: Ok, I don't fully believe that. Much more accurate is "not all video games are art". There are some games out there that are just terrible. Their graphics are terrible, story telling is terrible, etc. They just aren't art. There are some games that have elements of art (graphics, story telling, etc), but it seems more like a bits of other paintings pasted together than actual art. Then there are some games that are art. Silent Hill 2 for example.

Thing is, even if he chose Bioshock or Okami or SotC, the teacher would have said the same thing. While she's technically right that Pokemon Red isn't art, her reasoning for why it isn't (because it's a game) is wrong.

More importantly OP, did she specifically say that you were docked marks for choosing a video game? It could've just been a comment unrelated to the marking criteria.

 

[MoNKeyYy]

The prompt for my essay was "Describe how an artwork has influenced your life." So I wrote my paper about how Pokemon Red got me into video games, and how that has influenced my interest in technology. This was last month. I finally get the paper back, having scored an 85%, which ordinarily I'd be okay with but, on the grade sheet, she wrote "The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'. I tried making my case but she would not relent. I'm thinking of going to my counselor, since it makes up like half my quarter grade and I'm kind of pissed about being docked points because she disagrees with me on what is, at best, a semantic argument. Should I?

Try citing Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Association] and claim that the sticking point in the case was that video games are art and that they communicate ideas (That's an oversimplification, granted)

If she won't listen to legal precedent, you can always appeal to school authorities. Even if they won't get her to change the grade, that will be something noted about her, and she likely wouldn't like that.

You should have cleared this up with her before hand though.

This. In the eyes of the US government (I noticed you're from the US) video games are art and deserve the same protection as film, literature, music, theatre and visual art, so point that out. It's an easy argument to win.

 

[Nickompoop]

Weren't games declared as officially being art a while ago?

Sort of. I don't think there's any official definition of what is and is not art, but the National Endowment for the Arts is about as good an authority on the subject as any.

This right here ^

Use the National Endowment for the Arts' recognition of video games as art to justify your viewpoint to the dean of the English department. Don't go to your counselor, they don't have the power to discipline your teacher.

However, there is the possibility that going to your teacher's boss will make your teacher hate you. And having your teacher hate you is really, really risky in a subjective class such as English where all of your grades depend on your teacher's opinion of you.

1. Video Games aren't art: Ok, I don't fully believe that. Much more accurate is "not all video games are art". There are some games out there that are just terrible. Their graphics are terrible, story telling is terrible, etc. They just aren't art. There are some games that have elements of art (graphics, story telling, etc), but it seems more like a bits of other paintings pasted together than actual art. Then there are some games that are art. Silent Hill 2 for example.

I am impressed by your courage. You're posting an incredibly inflammatory (and ultimately incorrect) statement about video games on a gaming site. It's like endorsing socialism on a Fox News website.

Of course, you're probably just trolling, but if this is legit, it's quite impressive.

 

[efAston]

OED definitions of art that relate to what she would have meant


5.I.5 The application of skill to subjects of taste, as poetry, music, dancing, the drama, oratory, literary composition, and the like; esp. in mod. use: Skill displaying itself in perfection of workmanship, perfection of execution as an object in itself. Phr. art for art's sake. Hence in many allusive phrases (see quots.).

7. a.II.7.a chiefly in pl. Certain branches of learning which are of the nature of intellectual instruments or apparatus for more advanced studies, or for the work of life; their main principles having been already investigated and established, they are in the position of subjects requiring only to be acquired and practised. Applied in the Middle Ages to ?the trivium and quadrivium, a course of seven sciences, introduced in the sixth century?the trivium contained grammar, logic, and rhetoric; the quadrivium arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy' (Hallam); called also the free or liberal arts. Hence the ?faculty? of arts, and arts ?curriculum,? embracing the portions of these, with subsequent additions and alterations, still studied at the Universities, and the degrees of ?Bachelor? and ?Master of Arts? conferred upon students who attain to a prescribed standard of proficiency in these branches of knowledge, or, as it is called, ?graduate in arts.?

10.II.10 A pursuit or occupation in which skill is directed towards the gratification of taste or production of what is beautiful. Hence the Arts: (specifically) = the fine arts; see next sense. (Cf. 5, 6.)

11.II.11 In prec. senses, but particularized:? a.II.11.a by an adjective, as magic art (or the black art), military art, the healing art. industrial arts, mechanical arts, useful arts: those in which the hands and body are more concerned than the mind. fine arts: those in which the mind and imagination are chiefly concerned.

It probably would have helped if you'd qualified video games as an art in passing, preferably with a quotation, eg someone well regarded saying "art is anything which...".

 

[Aidinthel]

However, there is the possibility that going to your teacher's boss will make your teacher hate you. And having your teacher hate you is really, really risky in a subjective class such as English where all of your grades depend on your teacher's opinion of you.

That's what I'm worried about. Even if he wins this he could still lose badly in the long run.

 

[Darthbawls77]

Not worth it. You got a solid 85%, sparking a conflict over what you yourself admit is semantics is more likely to do more harm in the long run than good. If this were a conflict that came up repeatedly it might be worth arguing, but honestly over a one time issue it's not worth the righteous indignation.

Besides your teacher most likely had clear examples in mind for the project. She didn't say 'anything that changed your life' but an artwork and... I'm sorry, but it's freakin pokemon. I kinda agree with her. Look I loved Pokemon red too, I still own it in fact, but it ain't art. It's just a game, a means of silly entertainment. She would have been just as annoyed if you'd said it was a basketball game you watched as a kid or an action figure you grew up playing with. It's just not the sort of thing that pops to mind when an English tearcher is talking about 'artwork'.

I don't think it's anything personal on her part, admittedly I don't know the teacher obviously, but regardless fanning the flames over a relatively inconsequential issue again is more likely to do harm in the long term than good.

Um despite you thinking Pokemon isnt art in some way is wrong. Artistic direction is what made that game into a franchise and changed games and the world at the same time, not in the way you might want but it still happened. Go ahead try to make a game without any artists and see how far you get.

 

[NightmareWarden]

Video games are a form of art, I refer you to Extra Credits for a detailed look at how and why. It is probably going to be difficult to convince people from an older generation that there is any valid point that video games have art when they will only see negative points like "too much sex, too much violence, too much drugs" and other prejudices. You know, like how in the "distant" past parents warned children that TV would rot their brains?

Anyway, you have a valid reason to be annoyed that your teacher took so many points off for, what is ultimately, HER OWN OPINION. Are all shows on TV forms of art? No. Are all video games good examples of art? No. Can video games be good examples of art? Yes. The same reason books can be good forms of art, such as in teaching a lesson through the struggles the hero faces, can be taught through a video game. Your teacher is probably basing her belief about all video games based on a select few, which is wrong and stupid. In pokemon black and white the views from the antihero N are a terrific example of the lesson that games can teach through story telling. The view that living things shouldn't be used as slaves and that it is wrong to treat any living thing in an inhumane way is a lesson which all of the pokemon have stressed to some extent. It is an art through the creativity of the story and...diversity... of the pokemon and it teaches a lesson, so I believe that it meets enough qualifications for it to work for your assignment/essay. Good luck!

As for whether it is worth the risk to continue an argument with your teacher rather than just settling with the acceptance that you're right...you've got me there.

 

[Nickompoop]

However, there is the possibility that going to your teacher's boss will make your teacher hate you. And having your teacher hate you is really, really risky in a subjective class such as English where all of your grades depend on your teacher's opinion of you.

That's what I'm worried about. Even if he wins this he could still lose badly in the long run.

He might just have to swallow the grade. If the teacher wins, he's screwed. If he wins, he's screwed. It's a Catch-22.

But what if he went to his teacher after the class finished? Sure he couldn't change the grade, but he could at least have the teacher disciplined. Of course, by that time it could be too late...

Dammit, this is really frustrating.

 

[Guffe]

I'm not really sure which I stand for here. I mean you are a member of the escapist so I doubt you've missed all the "games are art" topics on here and so you could've asked if she thinks this is okey. Then again what you think is art is pretty subjective, I mean some people find a few ink spots on paper magnificent art while I don't.
I say you should try to discuss with her about "what is concidered art, and why" and then based on that try to get those few extra points.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

The American Government has officaly made Video Games art, so yes, you have a RIGHT to be pissed.

I support you, bro. You deserve as many points as that paper was worth. If you were deducted points because of a personal opinion, then that is just plain wrong.

 

[Lexodus]

Definitely, she can't pull shit like this, especially not after they were legally classified as works of art ("Arts in Media").

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/16393-video-games-officially-considered-an-art-form-in-the-united-states/

 

[daftalchemist]

You're justified in being pissed, but your teacher is justified in her remark. Unless you're completely dense, you knew full well that claiming a video game is art in an academic paper that would be graded by someone who most likely has never played a video game before would receive a comment of "this isn't art". In which case, you would have gone into the paper knowing that at some point you would have to defend your point, which you did. She didn't go for it, and you should accept that.

You could have bullshitted your way through how a painting made your life better, but you didn't. And now you want to make a teacher's life even tougher by trying to get your counselor on her case about semantics.

You knew this would happen. There was no way you couldn't have known. You made your bed, now sleep in it.

 

[Engarde]

I'd just drop the damn issue and leave it at that. You should just let bygones be bygones and move on. Didn't it occur to you that not everyone would agree with your choice of red as art? Assuming everyone agrees with you doesn't work, sadly. Probably would have been a good idea to ask if red would be considered art when you were handed this work to do. Shame it got marked down, though.

 

[8a88leph1sh]

in my freshman (college) english course I wrote a similar subject arguing against government regulation of video games based on the grounds that they were works of art and my professor gave me an A. of course he was a very open-minded individual but I would appeal to her again and bring up the recent Supreme Court ruling: http://techland.time.com/2011/06/27/supreme-court-video-games-qualify-for-first-amendment-protection/.

be careful not to piss her off too much and if she just won't take it let it go. better to not make her outright hate you.

 

[weirdsoup]

A Pokemon game as art? You'd be hard pressed to argue that one. I think your basic argument is valid about how it influenced you and clearly the teacher agreed on that point given your score. I'd leave it as that tbh

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Your teacher is an idiot if she thinks she can define what is and isn't art.

To be clear: She is NOT an idiot for thinking videogames are not art. She is entitled to that opinion. She is an idiot for forcing her definition onto you.

Short version: Yeah, I'd be pissed.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

-Supah Snip-

Unless she clearly defined what sort of art she was talking about, you're absolutely right. And even then it would be wrong of her to decide what's officially art and what's not. But what I mean by "clearly defined" is if for example she said she wanted it written about paintings or sculptures or something. But if she just says "art"...What the fuck is art bro? Everything is art these days.

Clearly this.

And as you said, the fuck is art, bro?

Anything is classified as art these days. Even this.

I mean, what is this? A big lump of fur mixed with some garbage? Unbeliveable.