Pissed at my English teacher, justified?

[2xDouble]

I don't want to get you in trouble, but I'm behind you 100% if you want to argue this point.

If you feel the battle is worth it on a deeper principle than a essay score. Then do it.

I would.

To those dissenting: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109835-Games-Now-Legally-Considered-an-Art-Form-in-the-USA

Sorry, I *really* have to disagree with you there. Just because the medium has been defined as art across the board doesn't mean it applies to everything. With that logic, games like CoD are art. And that's the furthest thing from the truth. Take into account that there needs to be boundaries to what can and cannot be called art otherwise it takes anything special out of the word or the effort that goes into creating true pieces of art.

That's quite a lot of passion you have there, but you're completely wrong.

A work of art is a work of art. Like all art forms, there are good pieces and there are bad pieces. The Call of Duty series is just as much art as Twilight is, whatever you may think of them. The only exception is obscenity, but there is a world of difference between artistic nudes vs pornography, or photos of the horrors of war vs crime scene photographs and snuff films.

You may not like Call of Duty. You may not accept the subject matter, or are drawn away from the experience by technical issues, or maybe some douchebag called you names on the internet... but it is still art, and has a right to exist and be called as such. The fact that there are arguably better works is irrelevant. That's like saying daVinci's Vitruvian Man or Pieta aren't art because Michaelangelo's David, or van Gogh's Starry Night, or Shakespeare's Othello is better. (Actually it's more like saying postcards aren't art because National Geographic or Discovery Channel is better, but that's a more obtuse metaphor. heh)

It may not show the care and craftsmanship of other pieces, but that doesn't make it not art. That makes it bad art.

Flame me all you will but Pokemon is not art, nor will it ever be.

I love Pokemon. I grew up on it. I set up Pokemon trading centres at school where you could bring in your gameboy and battle/trade with each other based on your poke-levels. It's interesting, wonderful and I adore it, but I could NEVER call it art.

I am aware the term "art" is suggestive, but I find some of the shots in Assassin's Creed and Batman to be more artful than Pokemon ever will be.

I beg to differ again, but you absolutely do consider Pokemon art (though you refuse the semantics). Simplistic and pixelated Pokemon invokes far greater passion in you in this post than all the pretty pictures or story depth you praise in Assassin's Creed or Arkham Asylum. That, my friend, is the definition of art.

Beauty may be in the eyes of the beholders, but Art is in their hearts.

 

[Thetwistedendgame]

Was it not officialy stated that videogames are art a half year ago?

 

[teisjm]

You're justified.
If you wanna do somethign about it, i suggest asking her what she defines as art, and then why she does it.
If you wanna discuss subjective matters with people, if you just plain out disagree they tend to be very protective of their oppinions, but if you ask them to explain them, you force them to think about their opinions, giving you an opening to influence them, if you have some good arguments.

Most people, myself included, often value their subjective oppinions a lot higher than the facts or lack of facts they're build on actually support. So you need to get past the shell of oppinion vs oppinion, which easily becomes a me vs you argument, and discuss the facts that are the foundation of those oppinions.

 

[Jakub324]

What a *****. Yeah, you should argue that grade and get the one you deserve!

 

[Beryl77]

First of all, I can't tell you whether you should do that, it might be not worth if you're ok with the score. Pissing of your teacher, is sometimes not the best thing to do. I've seen cases where that ended badly for students. It's up to you, whether you think it's worth the risk.
But if you really want to do it then:
If she didn't define what her criterias for art are, then yes, you can do that. It's her own fault if she didn't give a definition beforehand, she can't just suddenly say afterwards, that this isn't art, which is a matter of perception anyway. I've seen people draw a red line on a white wall and everybody went "Ohhhh, Ahhh, wonderful art". So if that's art then I don't get why some games can't be considered art. Just look at the hl2 mod "Dear Esther", in my opinion that's an artistic master piece.
Sure there are games which you couldn't really consider are but you have to make her realise that there are games which can be called art. So choose the right games for your argument, like shadow of the colossus, Silent Hill 2, Half-Life 2 etc. and of course in your case, Pokemon. Tell them why you think that it's art, which aspects of the game make it art etc.
People need to learn that times have changed and new forms of art have arrived. The problem is that many still view games as, well games. Something that's just there to entertain children and not a form of artistic expression. There are some great artists working in the gaming industry but it's still hard for many to accept those things.

 

[LJJ1991]

I'm studying to be an English teacher in high school. I have to say, when I saw the...

"The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'.

I was instantly pissed. But first of all, I have to ask: Did you write your paper analyzing video games as an art or did you focus on the technology aspect? If you focused on technology, I have to agree with the grade your teacher gave you, whether I agree with the way she views video games. If you did focus on the art aspect, then you've got a case.

What I think you should do is bring to her outside research and PROOF that video games are an art form. I would put together examples that emphasize art and aesthetics (i.e. The Legend of Zelda games [anything really works, just not gritty brown shooters]). Show her THIS THREAD (except any trolling that may have happened or could happen), show her concept art, show her screen shots, show her a credits list from a game so she can see how many artists are on there, show her the music that is involved, show her cinematics, and, best of all, compare video games to movies and books. I'll bet top- dollar that she believes writing is a form of art. Well is simply storytelling (even analysis and research papers) and video games are INTERACTIVE STORYTELLING. I think this is the best way After all, she graded based on her BIAS.

You're justified in being pissed, but your teacher is justified in her remark. Unless you're completely dense, you knew full well that claiming a video game is art in an academic paper that would be graded by someone who most likely has never played a video game before would receive a comment of "this isn't art". In which case, you would have gone into the paper knowing that at some point you would have to defend your point, which you did. She didn't go for it, and you should accept that.

You could have bullshitted your way through how a painting made your life better, but you didn't. And now you want to make a teacher's life even tougher by trying to get your counselor on her case about semantics.

You knew this would happen. There was no way you couldn't have known. You made your bed, now sleep in it.

This, however, is completely wrong. I wrote an academic essay on video games, in a 300- level English course, at my university and presented it to an elderly professor who had never touched a video game in his life... This paper was our final exam for the semester in a very difficult course... And I got an A.

 

[chinangel]

The prompt for my essay was "Describe how an artwork has influenced your life." So I wrote my paper about how Pokemon Red got me into video games, and how that has influenced my interest in technology. This was last month. I finally get the paper back, having scored an 85%, which ordinarily I'd be okay with but, on the grade sheet, she wrote "The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'. I tried making my case but she would not relent. I'm thinking of going to my counselor, since it makes up like half my quarter grade and I'm kind of pissed about being docked points because she disagrees with me on what is, at best, a semantic argument. Should I?

if you're american, then you can point out that they are legally considered art. Therefor her personal opinion is invalid.

 

[devotedsniper]

i thought video games were classed as art now? you should find the link about it from here and show it to your tutor.

Personally i always thought they were art because look at the amount of time that goes into creating the graphics, it may come from 1's and 0's instead of a paint brush or pencil but the developers but just as much effort in.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

Bahaha. Pokemon? Dude, of all the games you could have picked to make your case, you picked Pokemon?

I'd say you're lucky to get an 85%. If I was your teacher (I am a teacher by the way), I would have given you hell for picking such a crappy game.

In case you haven't understood me - walk away with your 85% buddy.

If I was his teacher (I am a teacher as well, by the way) I would laugh at him for using the Pokemon example as well. Still I have a (professional) problem that the teacher here gives this shitty explanation. I would have written under his exam something like: "You really tried hard to explain that a Pokemon Videogame is art? But even Tetris has more art than that game!"
In case you didn't understand me - The chosen topic is good, the choice of the actual game is bad. The teacher is acting unprofessionally in my opinion.

 

[Stu35]

*snip*

Video games can be something that can affect you emotionally, and perhaps change your perception of something. Anything that can largely affect someone emotionally (of course, I could have elaborated on this, but to save space, I won't), is considered art by me. I've never seen anyone describe that level of affection to football, or any sport, really.

You've not met many football fans then?

I myself am a Rugby fan, and I've felt physically ill, and emotionally drained, watching my team fail to make the playoffs this year. A few years ago when we were relegated from Super League I watched a lot of grown men crying, a year later when we were promoted I saw the jubilation in those same men.

When Scotland (my country) lost to Argentina I felt gutted, when we went down to England, I had to take a 30 minute shower I felt so horrible.

These, of course, are stupid emotions, and I accept it's retarded of me to feel so strongly for the fates of 13 or 15 men who I have no influence on, on what is, ultimately a simple game.

But there it is, sport CAN and DOES affect people in deeply emotional ways - I would argue far more than computer games (I've never seen hundreds of thousands of people line the streets of a city to celebrate a computer-game victory, However I saw the city of San Francisco go nuts last year over baseball, and I watched the All Blacks parade on the news after this years Rugby World Cup).

So, Whilst you may not have seen Sports engender that kind of emotional response that you deem necessary for something to be "art". I have, and I believe I've provided some pretty definitive examples of it there.

That may seem like a narrow definition of art, but it really isn't. Pokémon Red obviously affected the OP emotionally, just as any game can do.
However, I really don't like football, so of course, I could be wrong on that.

I think it's a decent definition of art, I just don't think you can use that definition to exclude sport.

Of course, to use the same definition, one could claim that the XFactor is art, and I bloody hate XFactor.

 

[Slash Dementia]

I think your anger is justified--it's your grade. On the one part, video games--to me--are art; they have artists working on them and they have writers working on them (art + art = art?), as well as all those other positions. On the other side, an inspiration to you--and a rather big one it seems--was shot down. You should be mad at her, that's fine.

As for the teacher's side, I don't blame her one bit. If I'm generalizing correctly, she hasn't played a video game and sees it as just a waste of time and a distraction to outdoor activity and schoolwork. I never bring video games into academic subjects because they're always bound to lose and it probably wouldn't go over too well for me. Besides, your teacher gave you a still pretty decent grade, and I agree with the person who said to not go in guns ablaze. Just calmly talk to the counselor or your teacher and if it doesn't work out, don't hold a grudge--just move on.

 

[Keith Leung]

Ask her how she feels about a urinal with a signature on or a jar of artist poo and dare her to challenge the perception that art can be anything created by anyone who defines them-self as an artist (DaDaisM). Challenge her to define what are is? If it is even possible given that the definition of what is and what is not art is constantly changing (Post Modernism). You could even try and de-construct the idea of what defines a game as even this is not defined well enough.

To be fair though if I were approaching this subject I would of picked a game that was more clearly seen as art such Katamari Damacy and Okami, Im not saying Pokemon Red can not be considered art but rather from the sounds of this the target audience would not see past Pokemon being a game.

If you don't mind perhaps you could upload the essay onto the interwebs and allow all of us escapist to critique it, as if I am honest it quite hard to answer your question without seeing the piece of work.

 

[Yopaz]

It's been officially declared art even though I disagree that video games are art. You shouldn't bother though. You got a good score, but if you do direct her to the judgement of the supreme court.

 

[Robert Ewing]

It's like graphic designers and comic sans.

Teachers will never consider video games to be part of any human progress ever...

 

[Alexlion]

Her personal opinion should not affect your grade.

 

[Brendan Le Page]

The exact same thing happened to me not that long ago. what i did was give examples of how beautiful, artistic and perception changing games can be. my examples were shogun total war 2, bio shock (both, first one for story and art second just for art), limbo and finally Deus Ex human revolutions. all (except Bio shock 2) are undeniably great games and all i did was show how they looked and gave examples of how my perception of the world was challenged even changed by these games. in the end my augment was so persuasive i tuned my teacher into a gamer and now she tells me all about how shes doing in final fantasy.

 

[Saltyk]

If I were you, I'd show her evidence to the contrary after class. Show her some videos of Extra Credits, Shadow of the Colossus, or a variety of different games. Ask her for examples of art. She'll probably say movies and music at the very least, and counter her point by saying that not all movies or music are art. I wouldn't count Transformers, mindless action flicks, club music, or pornography as art. I think you can easily debate her on this. If she persists, you might want to bring in some other teacher (like a technology teacher) or a principal up to speed.

 

[Xanadu84]

First things first, realize that your teacher isn't some unreasonable wretch. Lots of people consider games to be simple toys, and really, Nintendo is a major reason for that. If you want to fight for your last 15 points, you have to go into the fight with the understanding that your teacher is reasonable. She is just also, well, wrong. Go into this argument angry and you won't get your points, and your teacher won't like you anymore.

Next step is to make your case. Do a short writeup of your arguments. Reference or link the sources you want to cite, in particular how games are legally recognized as art, and the California thing. Find a dictionary (Or even better, a used in class) definition for art, and explain how video games, and Pokemon in particular, fit the definition. Look up some game design experts who have interesting things to say on the matter.

The biggest problem you will probably have is not convincing her that games are art, but Pokemon specifically. She may have also taken 15 points away from anyone who answered Goosebumps, Archie comics, Transformers or something similar. I don't know the details of your paper or the assignment, so it is possible that she has a point here. If she does, accept that you had a decent grade and move on.

 

[SyphonX]

Yours was probably one of the only papers that were spot-on, and about something that legitimately changed your life. It sparked your passion for technology, etc.

I would wager 99% of the other student's papers were about, "I saw a painting once and it made me feel different inside.", because thats "real" art, ya know.