Pissed at my English teacher, justified?

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BabyRaptor

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Dec 17, 2010
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Yeah. I'd complain.

If you weren't given any notice that she had specific expectations for the definition of Art, then you have a good case.
 

Radelaide

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May 15, 2008
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Flame me all you will but Pokemon is not art, nor will it ever be.

I love Pokemon. I grew up on it. I set up Pokemon trading centres at school where you could bring in your gameboy and battle/trade with each other based on your poke-levels. It's interesting, wonderful and I adore it, but I could NEVER call it art.

I am aware the term "art" is suggestive, but I find some of the shots in Assassin's Creed and Batman to be more artful than Pokemon ever will be.
 

Charli

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Nov 23, 2008
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I don't want to get you in trouble, but I'm behind you 100% if you want to argue this point.

If you feel the battle is worth it on a deeper principle than a essay score. Then do it.

I would.

To those dissenting: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109835-Games-Now-Legally-Considered-an-Art-Form-in-the-USA

There is the specifics in worded offcially looking form, but as someone who practices the literal artsy stuff for gaming purposes, there is so much art that goes into a collaboration of such magnitude, and if FILMS are an art form then video games are so much art it's not even a debate.
 

Bob_Dobb

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Aug 22, 2011
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Approach her after class, look her in the eye and ask her "Why aren't video games art?" if she talks about Call of Duty, Halo, Manhunt etc. you talk about Playboy isn't artistic photography and Transformers isn't exactly highbrow cinema then to prove it is art you talk aboutPsychonauts and Silent Hill 2 for being fantastic as an interactive medium.

So pretty much, every game might not be the next Picasso or even try to be, neither is every painting, photo, film or drawing but there still are examples that are art for both camps.

EDIT: Sorry for the grammar in my first paragraph, there are no periods reading back on it, but I'm not changing it now.
 

Vkmies

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Talk to her. I mean, you could make arguments that she had no way in fighting. Win the argument, make your teacher ashamed and higher some grades! It's a WIN-WIN-WIN-situation!
 

Scarim Coral

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Oct 29, 2010
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While I do think it's justified for you to be pissed at your teacher but I don't think it's worth it to get the score alter. I mean that is still a decent marks? Just discuss with the teacher beforehand when you get a new assignment.
 

Kpt._Rob

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Apr 22, 2009
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Yeah, there's a time to stand up for what you believe in, but there's also a time to know when you should've known better. As you said yourself, it is a semantic argument. Anything you can say about her, quibbling over details, could inversely be said about you. I too happen to believe in the games as art argument, however it's no secret that this isn't the societal consensus. I would ask her as politely as you can if she might allow you to make your case, either after class, or even in a scheduled teacher-student meeting type thing. If she's unwilling, then going another level up in order to appeal her unwillingness to hear your case might prove fruitful, but if the administration feels the same way that she does, you might find yourself living Sisyphus' life story.

Alternatively, one option might be to try to take the case to your student council. Now, student councils are generally useless party planning committees, however if you can convince them to appeal to administration for you, you might have a better chance getting them to listen to you. They're a little more likely to be open to at least holding a debate about whether or not games are art, and if they'll consider it at least a worthy point to argue over, you might be able to make the case that from the perspective of your own generation the debate about whether or not games can be art is a legitimate topic, and because of a semantic misunderstanding created by a generational gap you decided to write about what you felt was art, and thusly were working within the context of the assignment, because the ambiguity of the word "art" had not been consensually agreed upon between you or your teacher.

On the other hand, they might point out that you should've asked her if she was alright with that interpretation of her essay to start with. If she pulls the "you should have asked first, and I might've considered it then" card, you might be trying to save a sinking ship with a spoon.
 

Stu35

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EternalFacepalm said:
Soccer is not art. It's not something creative, that can create something that makes you think. It's a sport.
Strongly disagree.

On both counts.

Speaking as someone who despises (association) football, but who still occasionally finds myself at Elland road watching Leeds, it most certainly can have some incredibly creative elements to it - infact a players creativity is a huge way of boosting their stock within the game.

Secondly, I hate bloody poofball/girlball/fussball etc. with a burning passion, it's a boring, non-contact(for all intents and purposes) game with players more worried about their hair than actually sportsmanship... And therfore I refuse to accept it as a sport.


So, two things there - Football as an art form? I'd say it could be if you give it the right criteria. Football as a sport? Again, with the right criteria it is not.

Of course, this is just ridiculous, because it is widely accepted fact that football is a sport, not an art. Just as it's widely accepted with games that they are games, not art. Not saying that games SHOULDN'T be considered art, simply that they aren't by most people, and one has to consider the ignorant majority when one submits academic essays.

Now... My advice to the OP: If you've got the time, write an Essay on why Video Games are art, make it convincing (albiet not too long-winded), if she reads it, you may change a mind, even if she doesn't you've shown a willingness to do work in your own time and off your own back, which can't be a bad thing.
 

DracoSuave

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daftalchemist said:
You're justified in being pissed, but your teacher is justified in her remark. Unless you're completely dense, you knew full well that claiming a video game is art in an academic paper that would be graded by someone who most likely has never played a video game before would receive a comment of "this isn't art". In which case, you would have gone into the paper knowing that at some point you would have to defend your point, which you did. She didn't go for it, and you should accept that.

You could have bullshitted your way through how a painting made your life better, but you didn't. And now you want to make a teacher's life even tougher by trying to get your counselor on her case about semantics.

You knew this would happen. There was no way you couldn't have known. You made your bed, now sleep in it.
No way.

Ask your teacher to define what art is, and then find a video game that follows her chosen definition. Make that the next essay you write. If she balks at it, THEN appeal to higher authority.
 

SidingWithTheEnemy

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Sep 29, 2011
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Dags90 said:
This is really something you should've brought up with her before you even started writing it. That's entirely your error.

The topic of whether or not video games are art or not has cropped up on this very site, with notable people saying "no" or "not yet". Leaving that unresolved ambiguity with such a large portion of your grade at stake is irresponsible. You should be glad you got an 85%.

You could have taken two minutes the day the assignment was given after class to clear this whole thing up before it started. You didn't. Your fault.
No, not really, the teacher should have clarified her views on art first. Since [Art] takes very personal and debatable forms it is her job to clarify the assignment. Giving a very broad topic wihtout clear borders while not accepting the grey zone is unprofessional. Granted one could have asked her personally but she should have clarified it beforehand.
It's just like saying: "Write a poem" and then the teacher is upset that the student didn't use iamb or the hexameter style.

The thing that bothers me is the 85%, that seems pretty good so it could be seen as nitpicking aiming for an even better mark, especially since the relation with the teacher would deteriorate from now on.
 

EternalFacepalm

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Feb 1, 2011
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Stu35 said:
Video games can be something that can affect you emotionally, and perhaps change your perception of something. Anything that can largely affect someone emotionally (of course, I could have elaborated on this, but to save space, I won't), is considered art by me. I've never seen anyone describe that level of affection to football, or any sport, really.
That may seem like a narrow definition of art, but it really isn't. Pokémon Red obviously affected the OP emotionally, just as any game can do.
However, I really don't like football, so of course, I could be wrong on that.
 

Radelaide

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May 15, 2008
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Charli said:
I don't want to get you in trouble, but I'm behind you 100% if you want to argue this point.

If you feel the battle is worth it on a deeper principle than a essay score. Then do it.

I would.

To those dissenting: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109835-Games-Now-Legally-Considered-an-Art-Form-in-the-USA
Sorry, I *really* have to disagree with you there. Just because the medium has been defined as art across the board doesn't mean it applies to everything. With that logic, games like CoD are art. And that's the furthest thing from the truth. Take into account that there needs to be boundaries to what can and cannot be called art otherwise it takes anything special out of the word or the effort that goes into creating true pieces of art.
 

lionsprey

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Sep 20, 2010
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It kinda depends on what exactly she said since it can be interpreted in many ways.
although you have some of the blame as well since you should have checked if pokemon red was a approved subject.
 

rapidoud

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Feb 1, 2008
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t-money said:
If you think of video games as art, then they are art to you no matter what your teacher thinks.

In other words, hell yeah you should be pissed.
I can also think crap smeared on a wall is art, doesn't make it so. Ricky Gervais discussed this on his podcast, how Karl whistling 'is not self-expression'.

That being said, games are the only form of 'art' that is interactive if they are indeed art.
 

Trippy Turtle

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May 10, 2010
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Well she shouldn't have docked points at all which is what would be angry about. Doesn't really matter if she thinks video games are art or not.
 

bluemistake2

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Sep 25, 2008
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Video games have not been seen as artwork by most people in the world yet, only by most gaming communities and it's members, it's becoming art but slowly, really slowly.
 

EternalFacepalm

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Feb 1, 2011
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bahumat42 said:
Your telling me football can't be creative (yes it is football, you use your feet, get over it) so people doing this aren't being creative.

Tar it with the same brush we use on games, acknowledge whilst it can be artistic it often isn't.
That's completely missing the point. It isn't about being creative with the sport, it's the fact that no matter how "artistic" someone is with the sport, it still won't create that emotional affection art has.
At least not as far as my knowledge goes.
Yosharian said:
Bahaha. Pokemon? Dude, of all the games you could have picked to make your case, you picked Pokemon?

I'd say you're lucky to get an 85%. If I was your teacher (I am a teacher by the way), I would have given you hell for picking such a crappy game.

In case you haven't understood me - walk away with your 85% buddy.
Then you're a bad teacher. You shouldn't dock points because you dislike a game.