Pissed at my English teacher, justified?

[MorganL4]

The prompt for my essay was "Describe how an artwork has influenced your life." So I wrote my paper about how Pokemon Red got me into video games, and how that has influenced my interest in technology. This was last month. I finally get the paper back, having scored an 85%, which ordinarily I'd be okay with but, on the grade sheet, she wrote "The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'. I tried making my case but she would not relent. I'm thinking of going to my counselor, since it makes up like half my quarter grade and I'm kind of pissed about being docked points because she disagrees with me on what is, at best, a semantic argument. Should I?

I don't know if you live in the states....... But if you do show her this and tell her you want your grade revised: http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-27/tech/supreme.court.video.game.art_1_sale-of-violent-video-video-games-hansel-and-gretel?_s=PM:TECH

Because if you go to a public school, then she works for the government. And the Supreme Court is the government's highest ruling body.

 

[peruvianskys]

Honestly, even if you don't reject video games as art completely, I can't imagine it's easy to make a case that Pokemon Red is an art piece. Pokemon Red is awesome but it's hardly even close to the artistic high water marks in the industry. Pokemon Red does not speak to the human condition. It's just fun.

 

[ike42]

Should I?

There are a few sides to this argument. If you just want to skip to the end and to my advice, go right ahead.

1. Video Games aren't art: Ok, I don't fully believe that. Much more accurate is "not all video games are art". There are some games out there that are just terrible. Their graphics are terrible, story telling is terrible, etc. They just aren't art. There are some games that have elements of art (graphics, story telling, etc), but it seems more like a bits of other paintings pasted together than actual art. Then there are some games that are art. Silent Hill 2 for example.

2. What you should do: Calmly ask your teacher for the criteria of art or what she considers art. Calmly ask why video games do not fulfill that criteria. Calmly explain why Pokemon Red fulfills at least some portion of that criteria. Calmly defend your position; try to link parallels to the things she said were art. I honestly cannot tell you why Pokemon Red is art(I don't think it is). Nor can I tell you what elements of art it has. That is on you. The key is to do it calmly. As soon as tempers start running high, the discussion is over and you have lost. The teacher did not specify what was or wasn't art, it is on her if your definitions clashed.

If you want to go with the argument that some video-games aren't art because they have crappy stories and/or graphics then you should look up the form of art called Dada. Basically it's taking any object and displaying it as art. One guy even took a toilet, signed his name on it and put it in a gallery. The truth is that all video-games are art in that they are part of an art-form. Some, like Pokemon are just crappy art. I would use this same argument to say that all novels are art, even terrible ones like Twilight.

 

[klaynexas3]

so the fact that legally speaking video games are considered an art form is not enough to pass it as an art form? so if the teacher had said that a painting or a book was not an art form either, by your logic, the teacher is the one in the right. yes the OP should have talked to his teacher before hand, but it's not entirely his fault, as in that video games are a work of art, so the teacher is wrong to have marked him off for him using that as his art form. he should fight to get his grade back to what it would have been if the teacher knew video games are an art form, because they are.

Some games are considered art form by the National Endowment for the Arts. Saying all video games are art is as silly as saying that reality TV or documentaries are art. Those are visual media that are forms of journalism, though they may have parts of them which are given artistic direction like graphics, visual and sound editing, etc.

Even if we grant video games as art, and specifically grant Pokemon Red as art, there are problems with his paper. From his synopsis, the OP didn't write about how the art in Pokemon Red influenced him. He wrote about how the technology of Pokemon Red influenced him. If the paper was about how the story of Pokemon Red made him think about the value of loyalty, he'd have more of a leg to stand on.

What he wrote is the thematic equivalent of writing about how one of his parents was crushed by a statue, or a building. It has nothing to do with the pieces as artworks.

they never said some games are to be considered art. they said interactive games. they didn't make any cut off marks. and i am pretty sure that pokemon red falls into this category of being an interactive game. how well written his paper is, to me, doesn't really matter. he just shouldn't lose points because he chose video games as the art form. now if the teacher docked points for the above reasons you stated, that'd be understandable, but that isn't why she docked them.

 

[Freechoice]

Snip

Just wanted to get your attention, OP.

From Antonin Scalia during the Brown v. Electronic Merchant's Association Supreme Court case.

"Like the protected books, plays, and movies that preceded them, video games communicate ideas--and even social messages--through many familiar literary devices (such as characters, dialogue, plot, and music) and through features distinctive to the medium (such as the player's interaction with the virtual world). That suffices to confer First Amendment protection."

His description is of art. Art is an expression of ideas meant not to convey information, but emotion. More importantly, the precedents are art. Precedent is king.

As for proof in Pokemon Red?

In the original Pokémon Red/Blue, when you encounter your rival in Lavender Town, he asks whether or not you know what it's like to have one of your Pokémon die. At this point in the game, he no longer has his Raticate that he used in previous battles.Your rival battle before this took place aboard the S.S. Anne. Your rival's Raticate sustained serious injuries from the battle?but, because crowding and confusion on the luxury liner, he was unable to make it to a Pokémon Center in time and the Raticate passed away. The real reason your rival is in Lavender Town to begin with is to lay his deceased friend to rest.

Despite all of this, your rival never outwardly tells you that you're responsible for the death of his Pokémon. He hides his grief and instead channels that energy into the motivation he needed to continue his quest to become Indigo League Champion. The death of his Raticate effectively destroys your rival's impish, childhood innocence. Although he tells himself that he doesn't hold you responsible, he subconsciously holds a great deal of resentment towards you which further fuels his ambitions.

Tearfully swearing upon his Raticate's grave to not fail in what he set out to do, he trains hard in hopes of becoming better than you?defeating you?and to eventually make it to the Pokémon League. Mere moments after he became Indigo League champion, he was defeated?by you. Although he fulfilled his promise to his fallen Pokémon, it was only for a painfully brief instant.

In the end, your rival is scolded by his grandfather while you receive the professor's praise. During the course of the game, you steal your rival's innocence, crush his dreams, and ultimately snatch away the love of his own grandfather. Oh, and by the way, your rival doesn't have any parents. He's an orphan.


From a Gamefaqs post. It's tragedy, pure and simple.

Go see the counselor. Present them that.


Also, happy birthday.

 

[NightHawk21]

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Snip

I'm actually going to agree with these two posters. You could have really cleared it with her in like 2 seconds before you started. In addition I really don't think she docked you 15% just because of your topic choice. In fact I'm almost certain you had at least a couple spelling or grammar mistakes which under the rubrics used in my school would have automatically have been given you 95% on your assignment considering everything else is perfect. Finally you have to take into account that this is English we're talking about and while there usually are rubrics in place to help eliminate subjective grading it is still a very subjective subject and you will usually do a bit better or worse depending on who the reader liked your paper and style of writing.

All in all, I think you and the majority of high school kids need to learn a lesson: "Don't piss off your teacher." Yes you could go to the principal or VP or whatever, and shit you might even get a 90, but I hope you like losing all those marks in the long run over your next tests and assignments. Trust me when I say this (cause I learned this at a very early age) that school is a lot easier if your nice to your teachers and friendly. The amount of times my good standing with a teacher has allowed me to get an extension on something or squeeze out an extra mark later way outweighed getting a couple marks on some old assignment. Also who do you think the VP is going to side with, you or the teacher. He'll tell you exactly the same thing the poster I quoted said "You could have asked first."

Also your argument kind of falls apart when your referring to Pokemon Red as art. While art is subjective, I assure you that there are very few people who when they think of games as art pick one of the first pokemon games as there prime example.

Edit: Oh and in the grand scheme of things you lost less than 4% of your final grade, so nothing to get to arms about.

 

[Delsana]

The prompt for my essay was "Describe how an artwork has influenced your life." So I wrote my paper about how Pokemon Red got me into video games, and how that has influenced my interest in technology. This was last month. I finally get the paper back, having scored an 85%, which ordinarily I'd be okay with but, on the grade sheet, she wrote "The paper was excellently written but video games are not works of art." She said I had not 'followed the directions properly'. I tried making my case but she would not relent. I'm thinking of going to my counselor, since it makes up like half my quarter grade and I'm kind of pissed about being docked points because she disagrees with me on what is, at best, a semantic argument. Should I?

They're art, especially as they become more and more developed.

I've never heard of them not being seen as art.

 

[sinterklaas]

If you think of video games as art, then they are art to you no matter what your teacher thinks.

In other words, hell yeah you should be pissed.

^

Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect.

Videogames are art, your teacher was wrong.

 

[Batou667]

(didn't read whole thread, too damn long)

OP: you got 85%, personally I would just let it lie.

If you really want to argue your case, collect evidence from reputable sources - possibly your local government council department for the arts (I'm guessing you're in the US, so check your local and state government websites).

Also, Edge magazine has been a long-term proponent of the argument that games are art (some of them are bad art, but art nonetheless) - basically, videogames are multimedia in the same way that films and graphic novels are, and similarly they use a variety of artistic media (graphics, text and music) to provoke an emotional response form the viewer/player. Try to find out what your teacher's definition of Art is, and you can surely argue that videogames meet all the criteria.

But like I said, 85% is a perfectly respectable grade so don't rock the boat too much. Hopefully your teacher is open to a bit of friendly debate and, even if he/she doesn't end up amending your score, it might be an interesting exercise for both of you.

 

[the rye]

Pokemon Red in the academic world is not considered art, though you grade shouldn't be affected it should still be maintained that you should have written your essay on something that is in actually academic circles considered art.

I don't think Pokemon Red actually has any underline themes neither is it really conveying anything of any relevance it is just a game.

 

[band43seat]

very simple, use facts to your advantage, i believe the national institute for the arts would know more about art then her, and they have stated that videogames are art

http://www.fastcompany.com/1753652/its-official-games-are-art

 

[OriginalLadders]

Yes, you should. "Art" is not defined by the medium used and unless she specifically stated what mediums she would accept as "artwork" for the essay, then your teacher is in the wrong here.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

i'd be fucking pissed.

this is SCHOOL we are talking about, not some competition or your job, how can she deny you what is or isn't art?

i'd be hella pissed if that is the reason why i got marked down. honestly she should be happy that her student took a great interest and passion into the paper.

 

[DanielDeFig]

Let her know, that unless she want to get involved in a MASSIVE ongoing discussion about wether games should be considered art, then she can save time by letting this go.

Also, If you're a US Citizen, I hear they have recently classified video games as ert, according to that constitution they're so proud of.

 

[jurnag12]

I'd encourage you to take up a discussion with her about the whole 'Video games are art'-thing, but do it as an actual discussion about their artistic value, not in an attempt to raise your grade.

 

[Thespian]

The teacher is being ignorant. And that's okay. We are all god-damn ignorant. And what happens when someone is ignorant is, you correct them.
Which you should definitely do. The woman is a teacher, she is teaching a whole new generation of people. She needs to get down with the hip new hamlets that we will be praising, yo.
But seriously, a teacher should be open minded. If you had picked a book she never read and she said it didn't count as art, no one would let that shit fly, would they? And yet here she is doing the exact same thing with a video game. My friend, prevent that fecal matter getting airborne.

Besides your teacher most likely had clear examples in mind for the project. She didn't say 'anything that changed your life' but an artwork and... I'm sorry, but it's freakin pokemon. I kinda agree with her. Look I loved Pokemon red too, I still own it in fact, but it ain't art. It's just a game, a means of silly entertainment. She would have been just as annoyed if you'd said it was a basketball game you watched as a kid or an action figure you grew up playing with. It's just not the sort of thing that pops to mind when an English tearcher is talking about 'artwork'.

I'm really kinda sick of this pretension people come out with whenever the word "art" is used. I totally get what you are saying when you say that she was probably using the term artwork to mean a certain bunch of things that coincide with school curriculum well and why break the system just for the sake of breaking it, but at the same time...
"Silly entertainment"? Really? ALL of art is silly entertainment. That's basically the definition of art. And for me, the pokémon games were the same moralistic epics that have been praised in the world of literature, except they spoke to me in a modern vernacular, imparting the importance of relationships and fighting the good fight when I didn't even realize I was doing anything other than making dragons blow each other up.
To this day, I have learned more simple, practical lessons from games, comics and especially cartoons than I have from Shakespeare or poetry.
And secondly, you say that it's not the sort of thing that pops to mind when talking about artwork, and you are completely right about that.
... Why is that a bad thing, again?
Thinking outside of the box, innovating, being creative, in an English class? Geez, lock the guy up. We can't help but be inspired by certain things and why should we have to play the game in school and bullshit on about how "oh yes, this totally obfuscated poetic simile really became an applicable lesson in day-to-day life for me."
I mean, if that's the case, more power to you, but why is it the default? Why must "Game" or "Comic" always have the precursor of "Just a" in these discussions?

Anyway I ranted a lot there, so sorry if I came off too hostile. I know not all of it even applied to the quoted forumite.

 

[Kadoodle]

As someone who has written numerous paper for Art History (ie, my favorite class in the world), I have a bit of an idea of what is art and what isn't.

Videogames are art. Some are good art, others are bad art, but they are art. They're made with intent by people. They are a form of entertainment. They are a craft. Your teacher has probably never even played a videogame.

Complain about it, and write another essay giving logical reasons for why it is art.

 

[Kuroneko97]

Although I do agree with video games being some form of art (say what you want about Final Fantasy XIII, but those graphics blew my mind), the problem is most people over 30 don't see video games that way. They see video games as some brainwashing tool that keeps 25-year-olds in their houses and prevents them from contributing to society, despite whether or not they actually do.

There's two options I see here.
1. Take your grade and just shoot the teacher angry glares every once in a while for the rest of the year. Although from what you said about the grading scale, this might be a hard thing to take in. And he may get you in trouble for them glares.
2. Find the teacher in a calm time when she's in an okay mood and try to make your case. Make sure you present your argument well, because if you're mumbling and stammering a lot then it may just enforce that "video games brainwash kids" idea.

The second may help you stay on good terms with your teacher. If she doesn't accept it after that, well, you may just have to take it.

 

[Chaos1228]

Absolutely you should be pissed. Like people have said, they have the capacity to be art.
And you should take a picture of skyrim on ultra on pc and show her that .

 

[Peteron]

Well, that's because video games aren't accepted as art. Mainly because they are not.