Planescape: Torment... Why?

[AzrealMaximillion]

I am one of the people who didn't like Planescape Torment. When it was released I was underwhelmed, and recently I tries to get into it again and was bored after the first few hours. Combat is horrible, don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Maybe after you run around the city for a bit longer than I did, the story picks up but it just wasn't my cup of tea. I liked the beginning in the Mortuary, but once outside I just stopped caring. I love reading books, so it wasn't the text that bothered me. One day I'll maybe try again with Planescape, but I can't honestly recommend this game to anyone. Neverwinter Nights 1&2 I have enjoyed much much more.

Planescape isn't supposed to be focused on combat. It's about the choices you make with the narrative and the puzzles. Just like a regular D&D 3.0/3.5 game. If you play through enough of the story you'll get completely enthralled in the The Nameless One's story.

It would make Shayamalan cry. It really would.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I hear a lot about Planescape: Torment. Mostly that it is one of the greatest RPGs ever made and everyone should give it a go.

Well, I like to think that I know a fair amount about games, and that it's something of a duty of mine to play some of the best of them.

Unfortunately, I'm also a student, so I can't just be spending money willy-nilly. I'm looking at the game on GOG.com right now, and whilst it is only a very reasonable 10 dollars, I just can't bring myself to click "Download Now"

So I put it to you, o peoples of Escapia, convince me that this game truly is as great as people say it is. Tell me I'm a fool to hesitate. Conversely, tell me why you think I SHOULDN'T buy the game, and why it's a waste of money.

Pictures, words, videos, poetry, whatever. Just tell me why I should get this game.

Perhaps the most compelling reason is the way the story begins. A tabula rasa mystery, set in a strange setting (Sigil, city of doors, gateway to the immortal planes and the planes surrounding it). If you were at all an old school AD&D player, this game would have immediately set you off but I'm guessing you're younger and missed out on the days when AD&D was contemporary.
Anyway, the game itself is quite expansive for the time it was produced in. Lots of side-quests, tons of lore. NPC's that are colorful and interesting. I would daresay that Bioware's KotOR was a spiritual successor in the NPC backstory category, or at least they had played the hell out of Torment.
But as I say, old games are hard for relatively younger gamers to get into. Nostalgia colors a lot of things, but I would say that Torment isn't a game that fits that description. I believe its still relevant as a game, and still carries with it a perfect mesh of story, gameplay and puzzles. Trust me, get yourself trapped in the Lady of Pain's maze for worshipping a dead god and you'll understand what I mean.
Oh and one more note: Jennifer Fucking Hale and Dan Castellaneta both voice for the game as well as the venerable Keith David, John de Lancie (of Star Trek The Next Generation fame as Q), and Tony Jay, the man who in my opinion made the Soul Reaver cast super-awesome (may he rest in the Manda).

 

[CD-R]

If you do try to play it I recommend using a walk-through.

http://gamebanshee.com/planescapetorment/walkthrough.php

This one is pretty good since it doesn't give away any story spoilers.

 

[PleasantKenobi]

So I put it to you, o peoples of Escapia, convince me that this game truly is as great as people say it is. Tell me I'm a fool to hesitate. Conversely, tell me why you think I SHOULDN'T buy the game, and why it's a waste of money.

Essentially, it has one of the best stories in an RPG ever, but it also has an utterly awful combat system. It requires a bit of dedication to get the most out of it. Also, if you do buy it google a character build because there is one specific build that is the best for getting conversations etc.

Personally, I tried to play it and abandoned it (temporarily) about 1/4 of the way through for various reasons, mainly the sheer scale of the world being a bit overwhelming. At some point I will go back to it, I'm sure.

Follow this guys advice, because if you can put up with the dodgey UI and awkward dungeons crawls, then Baldur's Gate II and Icewind Dale should knock your socks off. BGII is overall a better experience with less of the issues that plagues PS:T combat and gameplay mechanics while Icewind Dale 1 and 2 are solid dungeon crawling fun with little story to slow you down.

 

[PleasantKenobi]

Anyway, the game itself is quite expansive for the time it was produced in. Lots of side-quests, tons of lore. NPC's that are colorful and interesting. I would daresay that Bioware's KotOR was a spiritual successor in the NPC backstory category, or at least they had played the hell out of Torment.

Aren't some of the guys at Bioware guys who worked at Black Isle? That is how I always thought it had worked, or are they linked in some capacity?

EDIT: well, a quick google search and Baldur's Gate was published by Black Isle while Bioware developed it. The similarity in style of writing and some gameplay elements across all these isometric RPGs, from the Infinity Engine up into present day games like KotoR would suggest that they had at one point a strong working relationship or Bioware are literally the sucessors to Black Isle, at least in style.

 

[EHKOS]

its only ten dollars.....

ok I can see why the game is great, its got a fantastic world and a really really cool story

however dont get it unless you know you can "really" play an oldschool RPG, and if your not like me and cant play somthing unless its pretty (Placescape isnt ugly..but its old)thats jsut me..I have gaming ADD

for me its "yeah I can se why its great...but I dont wanna play" things

Yeah I have that problem too. That and I hate isometric views.

 

[seraphy]

Torment is simply put best game there is. So close to art that games are able to get. Planescape also has best story any game has ever thrown at paying customers.

What I especially like about it that pacifist run is possible about it. You only have to fight 4 characters to get through the game. Four and you don't even have to kill any of them, expect that zombie at the start perhaps. So awesome.

However as others have said it is an old game. There are mods however that you can use to get resolution better about it.

 

[Candidus]

It's a fantastic game and most of what you're going to hear from those who recommend it is going to be spot on, but add a pinch of salt to any raving you hear about its philosophical merit. It hangs around the college A-level / early university zone philosophically.

Don't get me wrong, it's thought provoking, particularly if existential, ethical and political concepts haven't made it on to your list for higher education. The way these subjects are included is entertaining all on its own- the writers occasionally make very sophisticated use of the game setting to demonstrate ideas, as well as just describing them.

Obsidian, Bioware and Bathesda are no longer capable of writing on this level. They've been demonstrating their concept-famine for years and years now. TES has never been a high-brow experience (just an awesome one), Obsidian has been producing garbage since (and including) NWN2 and Bioware is a lost cause as long as The Helper is waiting in the wing, with a pen full of effluent and a memory laden with BL visual novel endings (and Twilight).

So if anything, get it because it's a game that has no modern equivalent, which represents a narrative zenith from which we are still descending toward some horrific sub-fanfiction quality nadir (Dragon Age 3, probably).

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

At least in my opinion, whether you'd like PS:T can really be boiled down to a single question: Do you like Jean-Paul Sartre?

If yes, do not hesitate to buy it. If no, get it if you like slow, plot-heavy RPG's with little action and extensive dialog (seriously, the game's script has a higher word count than War & Peace or even Atlas Shrugged).

 

[ResonanceGames]

Torment is worth playing for the art style and the fact that you can grab pretty much any random block of dialog from the game and it will be excellent. It also has great characters and a totally unique setting. But it's the stuff like this that makes it a must-play:

I know that you, like a fly, rise up from the wreckage of your old shell, buzz about for a time, and curl up and die at the window of truth. You bumble about the pane, seeking the light without any plan to your actions, and fall exhausted when you fail. You alight on others to feed from them for a time, and move on with no regard to them. I have watched you come here and listened to your words, and watched you move away no wiser. Will you learn from your mistakes, seeker?"

But lest you think the game is all dry and heady, there's also stuff like this:

Nordom: Attention, Morte. I have a question. Do you have a destiny? A purpose?
Morte: Is Annah still wearing clothes?
Nordom: Affirmatory.
Morte: Then the answer is yes.

 

[Vegosiux]

I know that you, like a fly, rise up from the wreckage of your old shell, buzz about for a time, and curl up and die at the window of truth. You bumble about the pane, seeking the light without any plan to your actions, and fall exhausted when you fail. You alight on others to feed from them for a time, and move on with no regard to them. I have watched you come here and listened to your words, and watched you move away no wiser. Will you learn from your mistakes, seeker?"

A very good one, but allow me to toss in one of my favorites as well:

Vhailor: When the injustice is great enough, justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it. None may stand against it. It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment, and lend its servant the power to pass sentence. Know this: There is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them. It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods. Know that for all who betray justice, I am their fate. And fate carries an executioner's axe.
Nameless One: I see.
Vhailor: No, you do not see. Pray you never will.

 

[GameMaNiAC]

Meh. If you're looking for the best RPG ever made, try Arcanum [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura], a game unmatched in depth and character development to this day. And my favorite game of all time for that very reason.

But to answer your question, yes. You should get Planescape: Torment, it's a terrific game and highly entertaining. High fantasy fun.

 

[ResonanceGames]

Meh. If you're looking for the best RPG ever made, try Arcanum [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura], a game unmatched in depth and character development to this day. And my favorite game of all time for that very reason.

Arcanum's a great game, but you also forgot to mention that it's also unmatched in brokenness and a lot of it is just thrown together. Fallout 2 is a much better example of that style of game, if you ask me. Much more consistently good.

 

[The Funslinger]

Snip

Let me put it to you this way. You could, today, walk into a games store and spend 90 bucks on a very pretty, yet under-developed, overpriced, half-assed game that'll give you maybe four or five days of pretty yet mediocre game play. Or, you could spend 10 bucks on a game that people - despite that game being 12 years old - still rave about, still obsess about and still buy at the games store for twice the amount you just past it up for and play for months on end.

The ball's in your court son. I'm sure you'll make the correct decision.

90 dollars? Where the hell do you live, and who's fucking with your economy?

 

[GameMaNiAC]

Meh. If you're looking for the best RPG ever made, try Arcanum [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura], a game unmatched in depth and character development to this day. And my favorite game of all time for that very reason.

Arcanum's a great game, but you also forgot to mention that it's also unmatched in brokenness and a lot of it is just thrown together. Fallout 2 is a much better example of that style of game, if you ask me. Much more consistently good.

Fallout 2 was much smaller in scale compared to Arcanum. And Arcanum had a massive selection of spells and technology creation kits, too. It was entertaining. And that's just gameplay-wise.

Let's not forget Arcanum's end boss is perhaps the most thought-provoking boss in video-game history. He had such amazing points that, in the end, I had no idea what I was fighting for anymore. He even made me consider his theories in real life, too. Something a game has never done before to me. And it is why the game has a very special place in my heart.

 

[KingHodor]

Meh. If you're looking for the best RPG ever made, try Arcanum [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura], a game unmatched in depth and character development to this day. And my favorite game of all time for that very reason.

Arcanum's a great game, but you also forgot to mention that it's also unmatched in brokenness and a lot of it is just thrown together. Fallout 2 is a much better example of that style of game, if you ask me. Much more consistently good.

Fallout 2 was much smaller in scale compared to Arcanum. And Arcanum had a massive selection of spells and technology creation kits, too. It was entertaining. And that's just gameplay-wise.

Let's not forget Arcanum's end boss is perhaps the most thought-provoking boss in video-game history. He had such amazing points that, in the end, I had no idea what I was fighting for anymore. He even made me consider his theories in real life, too. Something a game has never done before to me. And it is why the game has a very special place in my heart.

I really liked the insane amounts of skills, spells and items in Morrowind, even though some them were basically game-breaking. Arcanum, however, is inherently broken. Not necessarily because of an absurdly large set of skills, but in its core game mechanics - most guns are basically useless, because they do so little damage and characters have so many action points that they can reach most ranged attackers within a single round. Also, melee damage gets massive, exponentionally increasing damage bonuses from a high strength stat, meaning that a quick-attack weapon (like, say, the ironically-named "Balanced Sword" that is one of the first items you learn to craft, or get crafted by an RPC you meet early on) will make short work of pretty much anything, effectively making bigger weapons like greatswords obsolete. Oh, and the worst part is that your character gets massive amounts of XP for hitting stuff. So you wanna play a diplomatic character that lets his half-ogre buddy do most of the fighting? Guess what, you're going to miss out on a ton of XP - so much in fact, that it's more efficient to just make a swordfighter and have enough skill points to spare to also become a master diplomat.
You want an actual example of how broken the system is? One of the party members you can recruit is a dog, whom you save from being kicked to death by a halfling. Unlike Dogmeat from Fallout, however, the designers gave him insane strength (since he can't spend any character points on intelligence or charisma), meaning that he can easily chew through guys in full plate armor, rock golems, or even reinforced doors. Did I mention you have to save this dog from being kicked to death by a halfling?

Still, I can't deny that the game had a great scenario/story and was very well written.

 

[michael87cn]

Planescape Torment is a really good book, but a horrible game.

The story is really good, but if you're not one for story Role-playing GAMES, and prefer gameplay to story, you'll be disappointed by the antiquated game.

Baldur's Gate suffers from the same problem.

Actually, any game that relied on the D&D (a board game) system like Icewind Dale are pretty subpar games too.

Fantastic reads though!

Put it this way: you could buy a great game off steam like X-Com UFO Defense or Torchlight or Terraria or Amnesia, or you could buy a really interactive book that's very confusing to get in to.

 

[The Madman]

Don't buy it.

Spend $20 on this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005JQ064A/ref=oh_o00_s00_i01_details

In all seriousness, the games are aging poorly because of their slow gameplay. However, they are far from unplayable, because you won't find another game like them today, or probably ever. In that uniqueness, you probably should try it. PS:T was probably the best of the D&D games, and can either make you appreciate or hate where games are today. I know I do a little of both.

Damn, is that for real? Because if so that's probably the best value game pack I've ever seen. Seriously. That's literally hundreds and hundreds of hours worth of classic PC rpg entertainment right there, some of the best games ever made.

Well, I'd say "Lose ToEE and I'll pay 25 bucks for it" myself. But jokes aside, yes, that's one great package and if you're missing games from it, totally worth the buy, too.

Why? Temple of Elemental Evil is fantastic, probably the best implementation of DnD combat in any game, well, ever. The combat is both challenging and entertaining and the games visuals surprisingly beautiful with its high resolution backgrounds and 3D sprites.

True the story isn't particularly good, but if everyone allowed to pull the 'Planescape is brilliant except for the combat' I can pull the 'ToEE is brilliant except for the plot' excuse myself. Damned good game, especially when it's been patched up with the Circle of Eight mod.

Put it this way: you could buy a great game off steam like X-Com UFO Defense or Torchlight or Terraria or Amnesia, or you could buy a really interactive book that's very confusing to get in to.

I disagree with you so strongly my teeth are clenched and I've been forced to type this very, very slowly because I'm so busy forming fists with my hands and waving them at the monitor dramatically. The combat in Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate is fantastic. Oh it's not perfect, but as far as DnD combat in games go it's beyond doubt the second best out there... the best being the game I was defending above. Some of the best squad-based isometric combat out there and the pause & play mechanic was so popular it's become a staple of the entire genre.

And even putting gameplay mechanics aside, DnD and roleplaying is about more than just that. It's about interaction, decision making, about playing a role in a world and reaping the consequences of your actions while enjoying a well thought out and enjoyable story. Something I daresay few if any games have done better than Planescape or Baldur's Gate.

How are they confusing either? I mean you reference X-Com and your avatar is from Fallout, both of which are much more user-unfriendly. Hell, Fallout 2's introduction is so unwelcoming I can't count the number of posts I've read about people complaining they've never gotten past the tutorial. The TUTORIAL!