Well I do have my other option, its called Comic Books themselves, and I want to read Final Crisis, Flashpoint, and New 52 Justice League.King Billi said:
Please don't reboot the DC Movies....anything but that.
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They've invested too much in the current continuity to try rebooting it already. At the very least, they'd be losing the mostly-praised performances of Affleck and Gadot.
If their respective solo movies tank, I imagine WB would just put their superhero franchise on ice for five or ten years and focus on like, Harry Potter or something. Then do a universe-reboot in a decade or so, redo Superman, redo Batman...on and on and on.
But no. Trying to reboot their films at this juncture would only do more damage to their reputation.
The point is that Snyder isn't the problem. His style aggravates some people, but at least it's a distinctive style, and you can't deny that he kicks the shit out of Nolan (and any Marvel director other than the Russo brothers) when it comes to fight scenes.
He's just got the misfortune of being high-profile enough and divisive enough that he becomes the scapegoat for the shortcomings that are really the fault of WB's editing practices and David Goyer, who is a garbage person.
If their respective solo movies tank, I imagine WB would just put their superhero franchise on ice for five or ten years and focus on like, Harry Potter or something. Then do a universe-reboot in a decade or so, redo Superman, redo Batman...on and on and on.
But no. Trying to reboot their films at this juncture would only do more damage to their reputation.
300 is a generally good film, and Watchmen was about as good an adaptation of the comic as was possible considering the nature of the comic itself.undeadsuitor said:and? so he made some average adaptations in the past, doesn't help BvS or the entire DCCUSamtemdo8 said:Snyder made 300 and Watchmen so screw youundeadsuitor said:
The point is that Snyder isn't the problem. His style aggravates some people, but at least it's a distinctive style, and you can't deny that he kicks the shit out of Nolan (and any Marvel director other than the Russo brothers) when it comes to fight scenes.
He's just got the misfortune of being high-profile enough and divisive enough that he becomes the scapegoat for the shortcomings that are really the fault of WB's editing practices and David Goyer, who is a garbage person.
If they do reboot it again, who's to say they'd do this? How do we know they wouldn't be smart enough to do what the DCAU (the objectively best DC universe there ever was) did and have it START with all of them established and doing their thing? After all, Batman and Superman are so ingrained into our culture that their origins are modern mythology. They're basically doing Justice League with only half the main cast being introduced as it is, why would they not say 'fuck it' and go all the way? It's not like we wouldn't go see it.Samtemdo8 said:
They will eventually, they always do, but I think they're going to ride out this continuity for a while---until audiences really turn on the whole connected universe trend.
I think it's lame. Hollywood can do better.
I think it's lame. Hollywood can do better.
Really there's no need to show Batman or Superman's origin anymore. Except perhaps a brief flashback. We've seen them in Movies, TV and comics for years now. Everyone has some idea what they're about.Samtemdo8 said:
All Star Superman the comic and adaption sums up Superman in 8 words "Doomed planet, desperate scientists, last hope, kindly couple". Batman way back in 1989 (for all it's flaws) introduces Batman fully formed as a character. Heck with Watchmen they showed the introduction and fall of an entire generation of unknown superheroes in a the introduction montage. Time doesn't need to be wasted on this stuff anymore.
You could on the strength of a good Batman and Superman introduce the whole justice league without origins. Then if audiences respond well to characters you can do personalized movies.
I'm so conflicted about Watchmen. I did enjoy it, heaps. It was very faithful in a lot of areas. I've heard Snyder had to battle some pretty bad executive meddling, that the studio wanted it to be updated to modern times with the Iraq war instead of Vietnam, less flashbacks and a good-guys win ending. So with that in mind what he did was great.bastardofmelbourne said:
But there's a lot of style over substance and he frequently misses the tone of the comics by a broad margin. The superheroes are glorified too much in it. A key event is the alley fight, in the comics it's brutal one sided and Nite Owl and Silk Spectre seemed to enjoy it just a little too much (Silk Spectre lights an almost post-coital cigarette). In the film it's there and somehow more brutal but without that negative suggestion.
He made Ozimandas too scrawny and slimy (German accent in private?). In the comics he's basically Captain America/Steve Rogers meets the good part's of Batman/Bruce Wayne, peak human, super smart and a generally nice guy. It should be a twist in the film when he is the baddie.
And he kept stuff for no real reason than it was in the comics. Like Bubastis with zero explanation or pay off. The scene where Silk Specte engages the flamethrower because she's looking for a cigarette lighters makes no sense when all her smoking has been cut (more executive meddling). And Dr Manhattan not going into the chamber to retrieve his watch. What's with that? Broke the whole clock symbology.
That sounds overly critical. Some stuff there is just great. The intro montage worked well. The extended version of Original Nite Owl's death is gut-wrenching. Rorshach is a blast. Even changing the ending a bit, I think worked given the medium.
I just feel with some pragmatic cuts, some recasting and some editing of the tone, it could have much better.
I want them to reboot Joker, but I say keep Suicide Squad.
Though considering how often DC reboots its comics, it rebooting its movie universe would not be so outlandish.
As for people critical of super hero movies as a whole...go away. You don't have to watch them, but don't spoil my fun. MCU forever.
Though considering how often DC reboots its comics, it rebooting its movie universe would not be so outlandish.
As for people critical of super hero movies as a whole...go away. You don't have to watch them, but don't spoil my fun. MCU forever.
Like Spider-Man and X-Men, I'm now adding Batman and Superman to my list of "I won't watch another film origin story" list. I'm sick of seeing Batman's parents get shot, I'm sick of Peter's Uncle being shot, I'm sick of seeing Clark Kent become Superman, and I'm sick of seeing Professor Xavier found his school for gifted mutants.
Besides that? The only movies I go to theaters to see are horror movies, Ghostbusters, Star Wars and comic book movies. I don't venture out for any other genre- for these, I would prefer watching it at home on my own TV with surround sound and a pause button.
Besides that? The only movies I go to theaters to see are horror movies, Ghostbusters, Star Wars and comic book movies. I don't venture out for any other genre- for these, I would prefer watching it at home on my own TV with surround sound and a pause button.
I don't care all that much. But I would agree in principle that trying to improve quality is preferable to rebooting material.
I don't think we're in that much shortage of space movies in recent years. Ender's Game, Gravity, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Martian, Interstellar, Kelvinverse Star Trek, Europa Report, Space Between Us, Passengers, Infini, 400 Days, etc. I suppose you could throw in Star Wars if you want as well. Whatever your thoughts on them individually (can't comment on all of them myself), I don't think the genre is in as such dire straits as, say, fantasy movies (has there been a success since Harry Potter/The Hobbit?)Ezekiel said:
Well, Suicide Squad apparently made decent money despite being garbage so DC's cinematic monstrosity will probably keep lurching along for a couple more years at least.
Now if they could just hire some competent scriptwriters and directors they might be able to squeeze out something worth remembering.
Now if they could just hire some competent scriptwriters and directors they might be able to squeeze out something worth remembering.
Why not treat the current movie-verse as Earth 2? You know, kill off Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman in the first 5 minutes of the next film, and bring in Jay Garrick (Flash), Kendra Saunders (Hawkgirl) and Alan Scott (Green Lantern).
And, it could also bring the movie-verse in line with the CW-verse. A fully integrated movie/TV-verse would put them ahead of the MCU.
And, it could also bring the movie-verse in line with the CW-verse. A fully integrated movie/TV-verse would put them ahead of the MCU.
I like that the CW universe has already established the idea of a multiverse, both to explain in universe things, their crossover with Supergirl and it passively explains the DC movies as well.madwarper said:
If they did, I probably wouldn't care. I have zero investment in their cinematic ventures for the time being. Suicide Squad was garbage, BvS was enjoyable but rubbish as well. Maybe I'll go check out Justice League if it somehow manages to turn out decent, but otherwise I'm perfectly fine with letting this dumpster fire die down. Maybe if the standalone Batfleck movie manages to be good I'll go see it.
For starters, no-one those who those fucking characters are. Two of them are the weird early versions of current characters, and one is a lady version of a character whose origin story is so messed up that even he doesn't know if he's an ancient Egyptian or a possessed archaeologist or an alien cop.madwarper said:
It would be the worst decision they could possibly make, from both a narrative perspective and a business perspective. It would be even worse than rebooting the entire universe and doing a combined adaptation of All-Star Batman and Robin and Superman: At Earth's End.
Even the Earth-2 comic title, which I felt handled the idea really well, still fucked it up a dozen issues in.
I'm probably coming off as a grumpy bastard, so I apologise in advance, but superhero television is - as a general rule - steaming butt-chutney. The only good superhero TV show I've seen so far is Daredevil. Every other one was middling to bad depending on what season you were watching.madwarper said:
That's not even getting into scheduling problems (the same actors are gonna find it hard to film Justice League and a year's worth of television back-to-back) and continuity problems. What do they do when the TV show has the big twist that Professor Zoom is actually Barry's father or whatever, and then the movies have to work with that?
As far as I care, the TV shows should keep it to broad-strokes references, like Daredevil did. They referenced the events of The Avengers and even worked it into the background of the plot, but none of the film characters appeared personally and the conflict was on a totally different level. Although I'm hearing that the Infinity War cast list has the entirety of Marvel TV on it, which makes me...apprehensive, to say the least.
I don't see how that's a negative. As it would only take 10 minutes to give two of them their origins;bastardofmelbourne said:
Random guy, Jay Garrick, has Hermes crash in front of him and gives him his remaining powers before dying.
Meanwhile, sole survivor of a train derailment, Alan Scott, becomes the avatar for the Earth's "green" and uses the ring he was about to propose to his now deceased boyfriend.
Hawkgirl? She's just there. Want to know about her? Read a comic. Or, spend half a second on google. Not everything needs to be spoon-fed to the audience.
Permission to grump granted.
It might be a risk, but whatever the results, it can't be worse than their current attempt at a cinematic universe.
Besides, let's not forget that DC managed to have fourteen years to continuity in their animated universe from BtAS to GLU.
That stuff worked in the Earth 2 comic because it a) took established elements from other New 52 books, like Wonder Woman, Swamp Thing and Animal Man, and b) it was itself a re-imagination of the old JSA characters, shedding their goofier elements ("I'm Alan Scott, I found a magic lantern near some train tracks, my weakness is wood.")madwarper said:
It would work as an entirely separate, supernatural-focused team movie. With Doctor Fate and everything. It wouldn't work as Justice League. People would show up and go "Who the fuck are these people? It's magic now? Where's Batman?"
In general, "read a comic" is a poor message to give the audience when making a comic book film. The job of an adaptation is to translate the comic into film. If it can't do that without telling the audience they oughta go read the comic, it's a bad adaptation simply because it has failed to adapt.
Look at Game of Thrones. At no point does it feel like the screenwriters went "Yeah, just go read the books so you can understand this one."
It can. It really [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catwoman_(film)], really [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_%26_Robin_(film)], really [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Men_Origins:_Wolverine], really [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Four_in_film#The_Fantastic_Four_.281994.29] can [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_IV:_The_Quest_for_Peace].madwarper said:
Really [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl_(film)].
Considering two of those books you like were written by Geoff Johns then are you supportive of him being given more creative control over the DCEU?Samtemdo8 said:
Would having one overriding vision guiding the direction and tone of these films such as Marvel has really be better? I mean it certainly works for them in creating crowd pleasing films but they lack a certain individuality don't they...
Everything good and bad in Man of Steel and BvS has been largely attributed to Zack Snyder specifically his idea for tone and his visual style. But that's also the point, his influence on those films is unmistakable so there was no reason to assume the future DC films under different directors wouldn't be completely different since DC didn't have such a firm control on the franchises direction. The individual directors of the Marvel don't often get to to exert so much personal influence on the films they make.
Personally I find that option more interesting. Sure they may stumble and make some bad films but their quality could be attributed to their respective directors. Much like the original comic books, consider Man of Steel & BvS as Snyder's "run" with these characters and when he finishes with Justice League other creators can take over with their own interpretaion.
Sorry for the ramble.
I've been asking for a reboot. And I don't think a reboot could possibly be any worse that what they are currently spewing out.
But, I still think DC's sitting on a really cool "soft reboot" that they COULD use. If they had any vision or talent at all that is.
Crisis. It's a no-doubt money grabber (even if it's terrible) and it reboots the DCEU in such a way that you can cherry-pick what may be good from several different sources of DC stories and can the rest. Crisis on Infinite Earths. The terrible Snyderverse's heroes get a visit from Pariah who foretells of the death of their universe. Heroes from the multiverse then team up to fight for the survival of their own or all universes. Nolan fans get Batman from the Nolan batman movies, heroes from DC's tv shows show up, Brandon Routh, Dean Cain, Tom Welling, Michael Keaton, and Adam freaking WEST... could all take part.
And in the end; you wipe out the Snyder continuity, create a new DC movie verse, save the DC tv shows (and create some new directions they can go with fallout from the Crisis event) and make a TON of money. And if there are any positives from the Snyder movies... well no reason you couldn't have them survive the event.
And yes, I found all of those (except for Fantastic Four) to be more entertaining than MoS.bastardofmelbourne said:
But, I still think DC's sitting on a really cool "soft reboot" that they COULD use. If they had any vision or talent at all that is.
Crisis. It's a no-doubt money grabber (even if it's terrible) and it reboots the DCEU in such a way that you can cherry-pick what may be good from several different sources of DC stories and can the rest. Crisis on Infinite Earths. The terrible Snyderverse's heroes get a visit from Pariah who foretells of the death of their universe. Heroes from the multiverse then team up to fight for the survival of their own or all universes. Nolan fans get Batman from the Nolan batman movies, heroes from DC's tv shows show up, Brandon Routh, Dean Cain, Tom Welling, Michael Keaton, and Adam freaking WEST... could all take part.
And in the end; you wipe out the Snyder continuity, create a new DC movie verse, save the DC tv shows (and create some new directions they can go with fallout from the Crisis event) and make a TON of money. And if there are any positives from the Snyder movies... well no reason you couldn't have them survive the event.
There is also Justice (That is what its called)King Billi said:
The Death in the Family
Arkham a Serious House on Serious Earth and Living Hell
2 Teen Titan Story Arcs by Marv Wolfman.
etc.
Yet I have seen multitudes of Commenters are youtube (and I have seen many commnets)Zontar said:
Asking for DC to do what Marvel did by making more individual character movies so movies like Justice League and Crossovers like BvS would make more sense and have more impact.
I'll be honest I never though X-Men Origins Wolverine was that bad of a movie?bastardofmelbourne said:
I mean watching it I never felt I was watching an AWFUL movie.
Like other than the Deadpool issue what was wrong with that movie?
And the 2000s Fantastic Four other than the portrayal of Galactus looks no different than how the Marvel Movies are now