Please let Pokemon gracefully exit.

[Agente L]

Many friends of mine (some which are pretty...hardcore into pokemon.) said that B&W was by far the best entry in the series.

So, opinions. You disliked it. Doesn't mean it's has to be objectively bad.

 

[Russirishican]

I don't have any of the generation 5 games and for me, Pokemon doesn't exist past generation 4. Its like Ronald Reagan, toward the end of his life he became a babbling, mindless ninny due to Alzheimer, but instead of that we choose to remember him for all the good that he did for America. So yes, let Pokemon die, it wants to die. How about releasing all the gameboy games for the DS so we can give that to our children instead? Maybe Ash can go back to Kanto and take the gym challenge again, since apparently his memory and pokemon are wiped every time he crosses the border of a region. Just please, please, don't add a single other Pokemon, pretty soon we'll be getting into the thousands and I'm sorry, the creativity in your inkjet monster printer started running out around Gen 4. Accept it and move on.

 

[silver wolf009]

I would point you all to this:

Spoiler

It's name is Trubbish it is a 5th Gen Pokemon, prominent in Black and White. It is quite literally a garbage bag with eyes. It's name is quite literally the word 'rubbish' prefixed with a 't.' When I saw this in the game for the first time, this was the point I realized, "Shit they are running out of ideas."

I did not enjoy Black/White anywhere near as much as I enjoyed the original R/B/G and the subsequent remakes Fire Red and Leaf Green. Now this is not to say "I didn't enjoy it, so no one did" BUT it is to say that when you do have a large amount of people feeling disenfranchised by these new Pokemon, a significantly larger amount of people than when say Gen 3 or 4 came out, maybe we need to have a more in depth discussion than just yelling at each other about whose OPINION is more valid.

May I point you towards Muk, a pile of mud. How is Muk better than Thrubbish?

How is Muk any better than Thrubbish? I'll tell you how. Because Muk's evolutionary chain has the single greatest origin story of any Pokemon ever.

Muks are born from Grimers, who were first created, via *Bombastic 60's Movie Trailer Voice* X-RAYS FROM THE MOON!!! /Voice

That's right, created via an emission from the moon, that I'm pretty sure the moon doesn't emit naturally. Due to this lack of naturally produced, *Bombastic 60's Movie Trailer Voice* X-RAYS FROM THE MOOON!!! /Voice, we are forced to jump to the next logical and rational conclusion.

That being, of course, that Muk's are the eventual side effect of secret Space Nazi experiments with the Necronomicon to create X-Ray producing sludge demons.

Obviously, Muk are humanity's last hope from the oncoming invasion of Swastika shaped poison mud people!

[HEADING=2]HUMANITY'S LAST, BEST HOPE![/HEADING]​

As for the continuation of Pokemon as a franchise, I think I'm pretty Pokemon'd out. I foresee my next, and last purchase, being that of a RSE sequel or remake, but nothing more. I love Pokemon, but as it stands, I'm more or less done with them, at least as I stand right now.

The designs are starting to wear on me a bit, and as a post on these forums pointed out, it does look more and more like they're wearing clothes, and in some cases, they literally are wearing clothes. Also, before it gets brought up, Jynx's "Dress" always appeared to me to be more of a shell or natural armor.

Anyway, as for my final points: 1) If Pokemon were to end, I think now would be a decent enough time to do it, but I'm not hoping for that. Honestly, I'd like them to take a break and really think of how to shake the can up for a few years before they try again. And 2) Nintendo is not ending it. That's a premonition I'm more than comfortable backing up. Wish what you may like, but as it stands, making as much as it is, it's not going to gracefully exit. Oh no, far from it.

 

[Innegativeion]

Also, before it gets brought up, Jynx's "Dress" always appeared to me to be more of a shell or natural armor.

Jeeze, really? If you're willing to suspend disbelief far enough to claim that flowing drape with breast cups is natural armor you can

NOT

make a reasonable argument that ANY other pokemon EVER looks like it's wearing clothes.

You just can't. Not if Jynx's dress-as-natural is a given.

[sub]That said, while I disagree that pokemon should end or has declined in quality, I do agree that Ninty would never think of ending it as it stands. Also I like muk, and don't really understand the hate for trubbish and family. Trash bag, believe it or not, ISNT the dumbest idea for a pokemon yet conceived.[/sub]

 

[GamemasterAnthony]

Also, before it gets brought up, Jynx's "Dress" always appeared to me to be more of a shell or natural armor.

Jeeze, really? If you're willing to suspend disbelief far enough to claim that flowing drape with breast cups is natural armor you can

NOT

make a reasonable argument that ANY other pokemon EVER looks like it's wearing clothes.

You just can't. Not if Jynx's dress-as-natural is a given.

[sub]That said, while I disagree that pokemon should end or has declined in quality, I do agree that Ninty would never think of ending it as it stands. Also I like muk, and don't really understand the hate for trubbish and family. Trash bag, believe it or not, ISNT the dumbest idea for a pokemon yet conceived.[/sub]

Speaking of Jynx...who here has seen this [http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-theory/game-theory-pokemon-jynx-justified]? It's quite an eye-opener as to the origins of certain Pokémon.

Anyways...I think in regards to this topic, if we really want to see definitive proof that this game isn't going anywhere soon, we should look at how much it has improved over the generations. To do that...just look at the Pokémon themselves!

Take a look at the type distribution for RBY. I just used the fully evolved versions for this chart. "Plain" refers to single types.

Spoiler: RBY types and combos

Normal: 11 Plain, 4 Flying
Flying: 4 Normal, 2 Fire, 1 Water, 1 Electric, 1 Poison, 2 Bug, 1 Rock, 1 Ice, 1 Dragon
Fire: 5 Plain, 2 Flying
Fighting: 4 Plain, 1 Water
Rock: 1 Flying, 2 Water, 3 Ground
Ground: 3 Plain, 2 Poison, 3 Rock
Electric: 5 Plain, 1 Flying
Grass: 1 Plain, 3 Poison, 1 Bug, 1 Psychic
Bug: 1 Plain, 2 Flying, 1 Grass, 2 Poison
Poison: 3 Plain, 1 Flying, 3 Grass, 1 Water, 2 Bug, 2 Ground, 1 Ghost
Water: 6 Plain, 1 Flying, 1 Fighting, 1 Poison, 2 Psychic, 2 Rock, 3 Ice
Ice: 1 Flying, 3 Water, 1 Psychic
Psychic: 5 Plain, 2 Water, 1 Grass, 1 Ice
Ghost: 1 Poison
Dragon: 1 Flying

Total unique combos: 31

As you can see the distributions are all over the place. Two of the types only have one combo and only a select few have a lot of combos...with Flying, Water, and Poison having the greatest variety. Also note the large number of Normal types as well. Not a lot of balance between the types here and not a lot of unique type combos.

Now...let's look at JUST the Pokémon released for BW. Again, same rules with the RBY distribution. I will not be including Keldeo, Melodetta, or Genosect though as they have not been released to us.

Spoiler: BW types and combos

Normal: 5 Plain, 2 Flying, 1 Grass
Flying: 1 Plain, 2 Normal, 1 Rock, 1 Ground, 2 Electric, 2 Psychic, 1 Water, 1 Dark
Dragon: 2 Plain, 1 Fire, 1 Electric, 1 Ice, 1 Dark
Fire: 2 1/2 Plain, 1 Dragon, 1 Fighting, 1 Bug, 1 1/2 Psychic, 1 Ghost
Fighting: 4 Plain, 1 Fire, 1 Rock, 1 Grass, 1 Dark, 1 Steel
Rock: 1 Plain, 1 Flying, 1 Fighting, 1 Bug, 1 Water
Ground: 1 Plain, 1 Flying, 1 Electric, 1 Water, 1 Ghost, 1 Dark
Electric: 2 Plain, 2 Flying, 1 Dragon, 1 Ground, 1 Bug
Grass: 5 Plain, 1 Normal, 1 Fighting, 1 Bug, 1 Poison, 1 Steel
Bug: 1 Plain, 1 Fire, 1 Grass, 1 Rock, 1 Electric, 1 Poison, 2 Steel
Poison: 1 Plain, 1 Grass, 1 Bug
Water: 4 Plain, 1 Flying, 1 Rock, 1 Ground, 1 Ghost
Ice: 3 Plain, 1 Dragon
Psychic: 4 Plain, 2 Flying, 1 1/2 Fire
Ghost: 1 Plain, 1 Fire, 1 Ground, 1 Water
Dark: 2 Plain, 1 Flying, 1 Dragon, 1 Fighting, 1 Ground, 1 Steel
Steel: 1 Plain, 1 Fighting, 1 Grass, 2 Bug, 1 Dark

(The 1/2 refers to the two forms Darmantian has.)

Total unique combos: 51

Here we can see a LOT more variety between the types and only a couple types that seem underappreciated. However, we still see quite a few choices to choose from as a result thus allowing for greater customization.

I think you see how Game Freak improved. The best part is it also provides a counterargument to the "too many Pokémon" complaint the Nostalgists have been becrying. Mainly because it could be argued that instead of "too many Pokémon" now we actually had "too FEW Pokémon" then.

 

[Tanis]

My major issue is that Pokemon seems to be evolving into Digimon, but not in the COOL way.

:/

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Geez... It's almost like you aren't in the target audience anymore.

Why wouldn't you want younger kids to have the same enjoyment you had when you were young? How would they do that if the game were only available on consoles that were phased out before they were born?

Just because YOU don't feel catered to anymore doesn't mean the series should stop.

In short, Fish gotta swim, Birds gotta fly, and Genwunners gonna Wun.

 

[Evil Smurf]

It's important to realize something. POKEMON IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOR KIDS.
.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.267885-Game-Freak-Pokemon-Isnt-Just-for-Kids?page=1

Please read this, then come back here and try to argue with that.

Nintendo knows that there are in fact older audiences, it doesn't heavily focus on them but I think given the direction of focusing on story is probably a sign that they do care and give an ear out. That and making the main trainers at the age of 15 instead of 10. Also:

Spoiler

Putting Red in Pokemon Black and White 2

Wow! even more reason to get B&W 2

 

[The_Echo]

There's only so many times you can release the exact same game and get away with it.

One could argue that's been Nintendo's business plan for a while now. When you take a look at all of their big franchises, (Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, etc.) each sequel is essentially the last game with one or two new things.

Anyway, Black and White were the first games to have a real plot. Maybe it wasn't the greatest plot of all time, but it was more than "I'm gonna be the Pokémon Champion!" plus some minor bad guy thing that was really just a catalyst to encounter the Legendary du jour.

I think they sacrificed new Pokémon for more story in Black/White 2. (I should mention I haven't been keeping up with news on the game, so maybe I'm completely wrong.) Why else would it be a direct sequel? I'd imagine creating a whole new generation of monsters takes up much of the development time.

Maybe they're done creating new creatures. Maybe they want to finally expand the world and the lore.

 

[Something Amyss]

Now, If this is the case with Black And White 2, except without the the third legendary pokemon unlock, they are in fact, the same game.

Of course, given they've already teased a new story and discussed elements of it, this hypothetical is completely pointless.

They are not, in fact, the same game. It'd be nice if there were new Pokés, but whatever.

 

[Something Amyss]

Maybe they're done creating new creatures. Maybe they want to finally expand the world and the lore.

I don't see them ending the new Pokémon. There have been several iterations that don't have new ones. This is actually fairly standard for the third version.

However, I wouldn't be horrified if they spent more time building the world around you rather than just giving you new pets.

 

[Daget Sparrow]

This is the EXACT thing I've been thinking! I knew I wasn't crazy.

...wait, damn! I wanted to be the crazy one.

 

[not_you]

Having played every pokemon game ever released...
and watched every TV episode english dubbed...

I can say that it hasn't changed at all...

yep, OP is right, the games haven't changed... They're still the same old story and (virtually) the same old characters doing it for the same old reason...

But, that's about all...

BECAUSE everything is still the same, the games are still great... If they were great then, they are still great now, because NOTHING has changed over the years...

Sure, SOME of the designs look like Game Freak is running out of ideas, but, in all honesty, I highly, highly doubt that...

Black/White 2... Can't wait for them... They might not add much to the originals, but, it's no different from, say... Yellow version, Crystal version, Emerald version, Platinum version...

Game Freak has been doing the "release new region, wait a few years, release second version of said region" since the dawn of the games...

TL;DR: Pokemon hasn't changed over the years, it's still the same... eg. still brilliant...

 

[Launcelot111]

They've done this sequel/expansion thing with literally every single generation of pokemon. Why is this worthy of getting mad about now? And if their changes and improvements are more extensive than the past sequel versions (as my little bit of research suggests), then why single this version as a showcase of creative stagnation?

 

[azukar]

snip

Apropos of nothing much, you have the most bestest animated avatar ever made in the history of ever. Ever.




As for the thread, birds fly, fish swim, Pokemon fans complain about the new generation. I hit my disillusionment point in third or fourth generation when I saw Wingull. Don't even know what it was about the Pokemon, but I just suddenly lost interest. If I was a whinging type of person, I probably would've been on forums back then complaining my head off.

Since then I've come back. Pokemon as a franchise is fine. I despise Icecream-mon, I'm bewildered that they made another Fire/Fighting starter, but oh well. I had more fun with White Version than any Pokemon game I've played since Gold version, back when that first came out.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

It's important to realize something. POKEMON IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOR KIDS.
.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.267885-Game-Freak-Pokemon-Isnt-Just-for-Kids?page=1

Please read this, then come back here and try to argue with that.

Nintendo knows that there are in fact older audiences, it doesn't heavily focus on them but I think given the direction of focusing on story is probably a sign that they do care and give an ear out. That and making the main trainers at the age of 15 instead of 10. Also:

Spoiler

Putting Red in Pokemon Black and White 2

Wow! even more reason to get B&W 2

What? Red? How? Where? Why? What?

 

[silver wolf009]

Also, before it gets brought up, Jynx's "Dress" always appeared to me to be more of a shell or natural armor.

Jeeze, really? If you're willing to suspend disbelief far enough to claim that flowing drape with breast cups is natural armor you can

NOT

make a reasonable argument that ANY other pokemon EVER looks like it's wearing clothes.

You just can't. Not if Jynx's dress-as-natural is a given.

[sub]That said, while I disagree that pokemon should end or has declined in quality, I do agree that Ninty would never think of ending it as it stands. Also I like muk, and don't really understand the hate for trubbish and family. Trash bag, believe it or not, ISNT the dumbest idea for a pokemon yet conceived.[/sub]

Never saw it as flowing. Don't know why. It always gave me the impression of rigidity.

 

[silver wolf009]

It's important to realize something. POKEMON IS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN FOR KIDS.
.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.267885-Game-Freak-Pokemon-Isnt-Just-for-Kids?page=1

Please read this, then come back here and try to argue with that.

Nintendo knows that there are in fact older audiences, it doesn't heavily focus on them but I think given the direction of focusing on story is probably a sign that they do care and give an ear out. That and making the main trainers at the age of 15 instead of 10. Also:

Spoiler

Putting Red in Pokemon Black and White 2

Wow! even more reason to get B&W 2

What? Red? How? Where? Why? What?

From what I've been able to find, he's going to be in some kind of elimination tournament, and he'll be scaled down to level with the other entries.

 

[Snoozer]

I got (back) into pokemon after playing HG. I also learned about the deeper mechanics of the game like EVs and DVs. It gets surprisingly complacated if you start breedig pokemon for perfect DVs. One hatched evee just mutated to a jolly 30|31|31|4(-)|31|31(+) while i was trying to breed a vaperon (with entirely different nature and stats).

So about the new games? The new pokemon arent as bad as you think at first sight. Most of the old ones are so much better because nostalgia. There were horrible pokemon in the past there are horrible ones now. The gameplay itself is still good and didn't change all that much and if it changed then for the better. And if the "all games are the same issue" bothers you it's more of a general nintendo issue.