Pokemon Is Mature: You Just Have To Look For It.

[Kanye-Westeros]

The way I see it is:

Pokemon plot = fun for the whole family.

Pokemon lore = nightmares forever.

To be honest, Pokemon is just an in-depth game on all its fronts. The combat is such a simple system, but when played competitively, its explored in unbelievable depth. Same goes for the world and story; once you start digging, you realise just how deep that rabbit hole goes.

It really is a game for everybody. Its has potential to be a fun game for kids, and it has potential to be a fun game for adults; its good for both hardcore and casual. Its one of those games that is just easy to learn and difficult to master, which I consider to be the best kind of game.

Pokemon is not for kids, Pokemon is not for adults, Pokemon is not for the family, Pokemon is for everyone.

 

[hooglese]

The first 2 pokemon movies kind of had it too. Mewtwo talks about the meaning of life and is essentially psychic jesus, and in pokemon 2000 James is just fully out of the closet. The rest are trash though.

 

[AlbertoDeSanta]

To be honest, Pokemon is just another example of the Devs, Writers and localization team getting crap past the radar. MOST entertainment aimed at kid does it, and adults find these references interesting. I for one class this sort of stuff as that. Pokemon will never be a 'mature' game, not in the sense that we are using it.

 

[shintakie10]

The pokemon cemetery was probably the first time I ever realized that pokemon wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. Before then I'd only really been subjected to the cartoon where people get blasted, zapped, blown up, burned, launched into space and nothin really bad happens.

Played the games for a while, same thing. When you beat a pokemon or your pokemon get knocked out they don't die, they simply faint and can be healed back up in 6 seconds flat.

Enter the cemetery, the saddest shit my 11 year old brain could think of. It was kinda terrifyin to me to realize that pokemon actually died, not only could they die they could be outright killed. The story of the cubones mother bein killed and its spirit attackin anyone that came near because of the way she died? Heart breakin. All those trainers who came to mourn their lossed beloved pokemon?

I cried. I saved and cried and turned off the game because it wasn't somethin I was prepared to deal with. Death never comes into play at all in pokemon until you're shoved head first into it at that cemetery and you're forced to realize that it wasn't all fun and games, that sometimes bad things actually did happen and team rocket didn't always go blastin off again.

 

[Plucky]

Real-life animals and the Old Real World Canon theory

Spoiler

I just assume the earlier games in the series was when Game Freak has more creative freedom, Nintendo presumably hates realistic violence and things such as drugs/religion being mentioned at the time...and presumably wore down as the 90's went by, the Mansion is presumably Abandoned because it was the original place of Mewtwo's creation...this was before Nintendo realized how much of a cash cow the franchise became before having the idea of the First Movie, this is slightly emphasized when they removed all mention of Kanto from the 1st generation games to make it feel more accessible and believable as a fantasy-based game to a non-Japanese audience.

It's possible that the mentioning of real animals is just that; like i mentioned, the original games was probably IN Japan, which also indirectly justify Lt Surge being in a war (probably Vietnam) and passing mentioning of the Moon Landing and Space shuttle Columbia (which was edited out in the remakes due to the diaster...)

Sinnoh Myths and the advancement of Humans

Spoiler

The context of the Sinnoh myths might be implying that Pokemon and Humans got along at one time (the 'same table' thing was actually marriage in the Japanese version) or you could take that as something such as Humans and Pokemon was equal until Humans advanced, the other legend is basically something of a Nature-Culture thing, becoming empowered by intelligence could be a dangerous thing since it caused him to kill for bloodsport and tossed aside the lessons he learned whilst wastefully disposing corpses improperly instead of filling the circle of life; essentially one could assume that the end was that the Human had nothing and realized it after it was too late.

Eventually natives from Sinnoh migrated to Johto, which they communed with the natives of Johto to create a monument to their god who shared a singularity which is known as the Sinjoh Ruins; there Event Arceus can "reprogram" the universe in such a way, that it creates a new Dialga/Palkia/Giratina without causing any distortions...or possibly the world outside has been remade?

Before that happens, Regigigas finished its job of rearranging the world's continents, this is before they met with Johto's Unown and thus text, before then they used Braile, only evidence of this is the chambers where they sealed Regigigas' goons.

Legends and Jirachi

Spoiler

The way i see it about Legendaries; most of them are mostly seen as mythological figures with the strength to back them up, but with potentially no supernatural abilities, Entei being connected to a Volcano being born is unsupported, as for Jirachi, i'd like to think that he represents a living form of a star; he slumbers with one with the earth to unleash it's energy back into the earth giving it life (like how stars die out, leaving only dust which reforms into stars) in the Movie, presumably due to Butler's machine, it forced Jirachi to create an implausibility which indirectly is a corruption within the wisher's (butler's) heart and that it gave the earth's energy a physical form, which then caused it to go into a rampage, which justify why it absorbs pokemon.

As for the Unown, i theorize that they are legendary pokemon, however they themselves singularly doe not have the world creation powers of Arceus, Arceus could be an irregularity which then controlled the Unown to create a seperate realm of existance where their chaotic nature couldn't destroy it, however Unown are basically powerless in our realm unless in high numbers, think of them as Cthulu, the evidence is that you see Unown fly by when Dialga/Palkia is fighting but before the Giratina movie was about, which imply there are more worlds than the normal/distortion world, our ability of reading text may have controlled the universe somehow?

EDIT: It's possible that originally Mr Fuji IS the Scientist who created Mewtwo in the game's original canon they held him for Ransom o force him to diverge details about Mewtwo, that plan failed after failing obtaining the Silph Scope which they needed to catch Ghost Types for Mewtwo, eventually had HGSS played out, it would've implied that Team Plasma is more technologically advanced than first thought due to the REUSABLE Snarl TM inside the Lock Capsule, unfortunately Nintendo sped up BW so they probably re-purposed Genesect for the movie as a Techno-Biological Weapon to seek out Mewtwo.

Also, if Pokedex information is unknown, how do they know things like Gastly/Raichu can stun/put an Indian elephant to sleep...or that Pidgeotto can go at Mark 3...or something.

 

[AidoZonkey]

Pokemon is predominantly a kids game, there is no denying that. However, I find it to have themes darker and more mature under the surface of every game, you just need to know were to look. Many of these themes are simple like Red not having a dad, Pokemon fought in wars and Pokemon die, but others are so much more, theories about Giratina being the devil and Red being a spirit in gold & silver, ideas thought up by the community at large, that are founded when the games writers decide to take Pokemon in a certain direction

This is why I love Pokemon, it gives you something small like a dark pokedex entry or a small comment by one of the characters and leaves the different parts of the community to interpret it. In someways its one of the more mature games out there in the way that it creates its own world.

 

[Caiphus]

I've always considered Pokemon to have a mature side to it, although more for the fact that to play the games "perfectly" required you to pay attention to no small amount of spreadsheets. That, actually, almost puts me off.

Also I cried during the first Pokemon movie. So there.

Edit, so OP doesn't feel like I completely disregarded his post because it's long (what she said).
I haven't played Pokemon in a long time, so I can't remember Pokedex entries all that well. I'll have to take OP's word for it. but as a child ghost Pokemon freaked me out. There was the weird disconnect where, on the show, they were always kind of played for comedic effect. They'd just go around licking stuff.
But in the actual game, with that tower in Lavender Town? Whatever it was called. That was creepy as fuck for 6-year-old me.

So yeah. I'm guessing that they don't have any bits about eating Pokemon in the show? And that they also don't have anything about Pokemon wanting revenge on some fella with a sword.

Spoiler: Hee hee

 

[Ickorus]

I don't think Pokemon is particularly mature, I think like most other things designed for children they snuck in a little bit for adults to piece together, you'll probably find they've done this more in the later games than the early ones too because they know it has a reasonably large adult following now.

 

[Dragonbums]

but I don't see why everything has to be mature. Who wants games that are all brown and grey? While I do look forward to several of the upcoming games, I am also looking at Knack. The game is colorful and looks like it's trying to be fun. And that appeals to me more than "realistic" games at this point. It's kinda sad to say that a game looking to be just fun is unique and appealing, honestly.

What are you even talking about?

I never said Pokemon has to turn into a mature game.
I never said I wanted it to be more than what it is right now.
I never said I wanted the games to be realistic, or gritty.
If you read my statement in the OP you will see that I'm literally talking about things in game and speculations that people within the fanbase talk about due to certain events and dex entries making sense.

This whole thread is about the nuggets of information Gamefreak has left within the games that hint towards more mature themes in the Pokemon realm.

 

[Dragonbums]

I don't think Pokemon is particularly mature, I think like most other things designed for children they snuck in a little bit for adults to piece together, you'll probably find they've done this more in the later games than the early ones too because they know it has a reasonably large adult following now.

By Generation 5 they were more upfront about it.
The ending with Ghetsis shocked me.
Not because I wasn't used to seeing such blatant verbal abuse in videogames, but because Pokemon of all franchises are the least likely on my list of games to do it directly.
No allusions, no sugar coating it. It was plain up verbal abuse.

 

[Foolery]

Also, Gyarados's japanese spelling apparently derives from the japanese words for "massive killing" and the sound of piercing flesh.

Magikarp and Gyarados are also based on the old Chinese myth of the Dragon Gate. According to tradition, a carp that could leap the falls of the Yellow River at Dragon Gate (near Longmen, Zhejiang), would be transformed into a dragon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_in_Chinese_mythology#Carp

-In the pokedex entries revolving in Pokemon Silver it states that Gengar feasts upon the life force of it's victims. However in order for it to do so without being caught it hides in the shadows of it's victims waiting for the perfect opportunity. The only way to tell if a Gengar is nearby is if the temperature suddenly drops.
Knowing this information you can go back to the Red/Blue/Green versions(and their remakes) and think about the scenario with the haunted mansion.

Want to know something else creepy? There's a theory that Gengar is the spirit of a dead Clefairy. Plus, its name is not that far off from Gjenganger, the term for a revenant, the ghost of a deceased person from the grave, in Scandinavian folklore.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Gengar_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Name_origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjenganger

Spoiler

 

[Smeatza]

I wouldn't call it mature but there are definitely hints of a darker side to the lore.

There was a war at some point Lt. Surge speaks of it and he's a lieutenant.
Gothielle's ability to see the future often causes it distress when it witness' the death of it's trainer.
Parasect is the result of the parasitic mushrooms on the back of a Paras taking over its body altogether.
All the ghost pokemon have creepy origins/pokedex entries.
Cubone wears the dead skull of it's mother, some people speculate it's a Kangaskhan

Spoiler: Like this

I've always hoped they'd do a more mature pokemon game. I hear the mangas are on the more mature end, with pokemon dying and the like.

 

[Guffe]

The Pokémon lore is very interesting.
Everything it's taken from different folklore and beliefs and turned it into a fun game!
When looking more into stuff it can get pretty creepy, and as you said, if played competetively there are some very interesting tactics, in how to train and also battle.

 

[somonels]

If you look hard enough, you will see how this act of flinging a handful of poo at you is both mature and spiritually enlightening.
*Goes off to wash hands*
And that wasn't a joke.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.110009-Pokemon-A-Fruedian-Analysis
http://cartoonoveranalyzations.com/2009/04/09/pokemon-explained/

 

[Simple Bluff]

I thought gen 5's themes were massively overrated. They brought up the concept of capturing and keeping Pokemon, but said f all about actually forcing them to fight each other. And even then it turned out that Ghetsis WAS intentionally a bad guy and convincing people to release their Pokemon was just part of his scheme to take over the world or something. I was hoping for a sympathetic villain, a person whose only true desire was peace and equality among people and Pokemon, but employing such extreme methods to achieve that goal, had to be stopped. You can still do that sort of thing in kid related media.

But anyway, as regards to the OP:

-In the pokedex entries revolving in Pokemon Silver it states that Gengar feasts upon the life force of it's victims. However in order for it to do so without being caught it hides in the shadows of it's victims waiting for the perfect opportunity. The only way to tell if a Gengar is nearby is if the temperature suddenly drops.

Man, I'm pretty sure there exists a ghost type that eats children according to a pokedex entry. I can't remember which Pokemon or Gen, but I know it's somewhere.

In the real Pokemon world- not the game, this Pokemon would be a whole lot more dangerous to meet.

What you say is true, but I don't like that logic. A LOT of fantasy media would be terrifying if it was "real life".

- In Pokemon Diamond/Pearl if you go to the library in Canalave City you will notice that you can read a bunch of book in the upper floors.
There was an interesting folklore revolving around Pokemon and Humans

-SNIP-

Not only does this confirm definitely that Humans do eat Pokemon as a food source, but it basically explains the reason why Pokemon attack you out of the grass for seemingly no reason at all.

First, the knowledge that Pokemon are eaten is semi-common knowledge. Look at the Pokedex entry for Farfetch'd in Gen I; it clearly says that they are considered a 'delicacy'. In Gen II, Slopoke tails were sold as food (while it WAS considered a crime to harvest the tails, no one batted an eyelid about eating them). Magikarp has been referenced as a source of food in both the games (and the anime, but I don't think that counts) a bunch of times.

Secondly, the story itself is just a legend I believe, there's nothing to suggest that Pokemon ever spoke. I do agree that the subject matter is dark regardless.

-Part about legendaries-

Eh... you're drawing a lot of stuff here from the anime. There's nothing wrong with that, but I personally don't consider it canon. But to be honest, none of that sounds mature per se, just needlessly complicated.

Hey, OP. Have you ever heard of the "practically everyone in Kanto is an orphan" theory? Seems like the kind of thing you'd be interested in.

 

[suntt123]

I thought gen 5's themes were massively overrated. They brought up the concept of capturing and keeping Pokemon, but said f all about actually forcing them to fight each other. And even then it turned out that Ghetsis WAS intentionally a bad guy and convincing people to release their Pokemon was just part of his scheme to take over the world or something. I was hoping for a sympathetic villain, a person whose only true desire was peace and equality among people and Pokemon, but employing such extreme methods to achieve that goal, had to be stopped. You can still do that sort of thing in kid related media.

That would be N (full name: Natural Harmonia Gropius). Adopted by Ghetsis who claimed to be his father (though the resemblance is uncanny), told that humans treated pokemon unfairly and was used as his poster boy for team Plasma. Ghetsis also adopted the Shadow Triad and Anthea and Concordia to be his elite guards and N's friends/caretakers, respectively.

Also, when N left that caused a schism in Team Plasma. One faction was loyal to N and his goal for peace, the other was loyal to Ghetsis and his ambitions for domination. N's group went about in an effort to right their wrongs (finding lost pokemon and returning the ones they stole) and the other became a fully fledged terrorist group. They outright attack a town at one point.

 

[Dickdatduck]

If I enjoy something then I don't really care if it is for 10 year olds or 30 year olds I will just enjoy it. Is Pokemon mature? I neither know nor care, I just like playing the games and watcing the anime.

 

[Shinsei-J]

Pokemon lore hurts your innocence.
Trust me, it's not meant for the average child player.
Hints towards a great pokemon war, death and destruction creating and maintaing different Pokemon, the universe being created by gods created by gods, the whole thing is pretty messed up once you get in deep. Though make sure to not get the game canon mixed up with the anime canon, they're two entirely separate thing when it comes to lore and while the games may tinker with mature themes the anime is entirely for kid. In saying that I do still watch the anime on occasion because even if something is for children doesn't mean adults can't enjoy it, it's just that canonically it's a much brighter universe with much less depth.

Anywho, here's some Jwittz on the topic of the library quotes
and if you're looking for more stuff on the game canon I'd check out more of his stuff.

 

[Simple Bluff]

I thought gen 5's themes were massively overrated. They brought up the concept of capturing and keeping Pokemon, but said f all about actually forcing them to fight each other. And even then it turned out that Ghetsis WAS intentionally a bad guy and convincing people to release their Pokemon was just part of his scheme to take over the world or something. I was hoping for a sympathetic villain, a person whose only true desire was peace and equality among people and Pokemon, but employing such extreme methods to achieve that goal, had to be stopped. You can still do that sort of thing in kid related media.

That would be N (full name: Natural Harmonia Gropius). Adopted by Ghetsis who claimed to be his father (though the resemblance is uncanny), told that humans treated pokemon unfairly and was used as his poster boy for team Plasma. Ghetsis also adopted the Shadow Triad and Anthea and Concordia to be his elite guards and N's friends/caretakers, respectively.

Derp, I forgot N although he was certainly what I asked for. But he was a diamond in the rough and I think they should've gone the whole way with ALL of Team Plasma. As a whole, they're just a re-skinned Team Rocket. I mean there was a scene early on in the game where they beat a young, defenseless Pokemon.