Pokemon needs to stop being afraid of innovation.
- Thread starter immortalfrieza
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Oh, you mean this one? I never noticed it above your ranting and raving.ZeroMachine said:
Besides the fact that I never said that they had to change the formula at all, the formula is this: Pokemon type advantages Vs type disadvantages + collector's joy of catching Pokemon, it's everything around it that needs to change, and there's a LOT of ground to cover. To actually answer your question, besides the fact that Pokemon is going to wither away and die from stagnation in the next few years just like every other type of media always does if they don't, what you wrote in that very same post provides that answer:ZeroMachine said:
v v
You know why this happened? One of 2 possiblities:ZeroMachine said:
1. They've NEVER released a Pokemon game in March before, which considering how many there are I doubt it.
2. It's because the games responsible for these sales ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO DO AT LEAST A LITTLE INNOVATION!!!! This is the far more likely explaination, they didn't really do THAT much, but they at least tried and I hope they continue to do this.
My replies will be in bold.
Making a different game as a spinoff of the series is fine. But to change the main series in the ways you suggest would be self defeating on Nintendo's part.
You don't understand marketing. You don't understand business. You don't understand success.immortalfrieza said:
Making a different game as a spinoff of the series is fine. But to change the main series in the ways you suggest would be self defeating on Nintendo's part.
soz for delayed reply had to sleep and go to school. firstly i liked dragon age 2 as well it just felt a hell of a lot better imo. secondly a pretty damn big example of my point is mass effect. me2 brought along a tonne of changes and it was praised for it (even though i preferred me1). this is something that pokemon is in a dire need of. if it follows its current path it is going to be left behind. and let me make this clear I DO NOT WANT THIS. i want pokemon to have success for another few generations. if it makes some decent changes then it will get this success but if it doesnt then im sorry to say it but it will die.ZeroMachine said:
Wow. This is a pretty excellent list. Speaking as a 16 year old who only recently lost faith in the series as a result of White being more of the same, I agree with just about everything here.
1. The plot has always been my main problem. It never changes and it never gets any better. Asides from plot twists etc, I'd like a moral choice system. Remember in the first game when you get to the end of nugget bridge, a Team Rocket grunt asks if you want to join Team Rocket and you don't even get the option to say no? He just carries on like you refused the offer. Getting to join the bad guys would give those games far more replay value.
2. I agree with this point to. I can't offer any suggestions at the moment because I'm lacking in imagination.
3. You're too right there. Gamefreak have to stop treating us like fucking idiots. Even the children who play this game can't be this stupid......can they? They have to drop the face slappingly obvious moral messages andstop having the characters explaining the plot to us like we couldn't already work it out.
4. Don't agree entirely with this point. I don't think pokemon should get all the experience just for being there but they should get some. It would make grinding a lot less tedious. Speaking of grinding....
5. The combat needs to change. Grinding in pokemon is the most mentally draining experience in any game I've ever played. Look at grinding in Persona 3. It's quick and actually quite entertaining. I'm not sure about making it an action RPG although a combat system similar to Personas would really speed things up.
6. I like the idea of wiping out all the common pokemon in an area to make the rare one easier to find. I don't like the idea of kocking a pokemon out then walking up to its cold body and throwing a standard pokeball at it. That would make the game too easy.
7. YESYESYES!!! I agree with this 100 percent. I heard that Black and White would have Phsychic, Dark and Fighting starters. I was pissed whenit turned out to be the normal triangle of starters. We should have a starter pokemon for each type. That way I can start of with a Ghost.
8. I think you should have to get to a certain level before you can force them to evolve. Otherwise you could catch a level 9 Dratini and force it to evolve twice on the spot.
9. Just Gamefreak trying to snatch more of our hard earned cash. And people are obviously falling for it because they keep doing it. I'm just waiting for them to release Pokemon Grey.
Other suggestion I would make to improving the franchise would be to make it open world or better yet, give us proper side quests like any other RPG.
1. The plot has always been my main problem. It never changes and it never gets any better. Asides from plot twists etc, I'd like a moral choice system. Remember in the first game when you get to the end of nugget bridge, a Team Rocket grunt asks if you want to join Team Rocket and you don't even get the option to say no? He just carries on like you refused the offer. Getting to join the bad guys would give those games far more replay value.
2. I agree with this point to. I can't offer any suggestions at the moment because I'm lacking in imagination.
3. You're too right there. Gamefreak have to stop treating us like fucking idiots. Even the children who play this game can't be this stupid......can they? They have to drop the face slappingly obvious moral messages andstop having the characters explaining the plot to us like we couldn't already work it out.
4. Don't agree entirely with this point. I don't think pokemon should get all the experience just for being there but they should get some. It would make grinding a lot less tedious. Speaking of grinding....
5. The combat needs to change. Grinding in pokemon is the most mentally draining experience in any game I've ever played. Look at grinding in Persona 3. It's quick and actually quite entertaining. I'm not sure about making it an action RPG although a combat system similar to Personas would really speed things up.
6. I like the idea of wiping out all the common pokemon in an area to make the rare one easier to find. I don't like the idea of kocking a pokemon out then walking up to its cold body and throwing a standard pokeball at it. That would make the game too easy.
7. YESYESYES!!! I agree with this 100 percent. I heard that Black and White would have Phsychic, Dark and Fighting starters. I was pissed whenit turned out to be the normal triangle of starters. We should have a starter pokemon for each type. That way I can start of with a Ghost.
8. I think you should have to get to a certain level before you can force them to evolve. Otherwise you could catch a level 9 Dratini and force it to evolve twice on the spot.
9. Just Gamefreak trying to snatch more of our hard earned cash. And people are obviously falling for it because they keep doing it. I'm just waiting for them to release Pokemon Grey.
Other suggestion I would make to improving the franchise would be to make it open world or better yet, give us proper side quests like any other RPG.
yes another person who agrees with the op. join our fight against the haters of this change.run_forrest_run said:
Yes, join their fight to ruin a perfectly good series.black_knight1337 said:
These changes won't innovate pokemon, they won't improve pokemon.
They will rip out everything that is pokemon, besides the actual critters, and stuffs it into a action paced bile of rubble.
Pokemon doesn't need a story, I could enjoy the games if all the dialog was replaced by Weebl and Bob. If you're looking for a story in a RPG, this one is not for you.
The game mechanics are perfectly fine, turn based combat is based on tactics, thinking ahead. Like that lesser known game called chess. Making it a action RPG like Tales series will radically change the formate of the game. removing the very thing that makes pokemon fun. Pokemon is a game where you think of a strategy or a tactic and try to best your opponent.
Now don't get me wrong, I liked the Tales series, and I love the combat. But that's the Tales series.
I also like Fallout, but I would never suggest a First Person Thundershocker game.
Turning pokemon in an action RPG is as smart as turning Zelda in a shooter.
This post turned out longer then I expected it to, so there's a summary at the bottom.
-----------------------
This is usually the attitude that takes a game and runs it straight into the ground. No offense to your ideas, they are great ideas that work in games, but if implemented into Pokemon they wouldn't be as cool as you think they'd be. Plus, most of your ideas aren't even innovative, they're methods other games use quite commonly and for one I'm very happy Gamefreak haven't taken some of them on.
To start, I agree whole heartedly to this post on page 1.
Your argument about the Battle System.
-----------------------
I would actually love to see a Pokemon game that had real time battles. One of my dream games would be a SSB style brawler with every single Pokemon a playable character. Their 4 moves could be mapped to the B button while the A button takes care of weaker variations of Bite, Tackle, Scratch, and so-forth. That being said though, the Pokemon games are about training your Pokemon to battle each other, not taking control over them and battling with them as avatars in some weird anime knockoff. Pokemon games are still one of my favorite Turn Based RPGs, and one of the few I can play without getting bored (The others included Golden Sun).
Also, turn based is a lot more suitable for a portable game. You can look away from the game for a moment without worry or having to pause during Turn Based Combat if you're out and about, need to catch a train, or someone yells "DUCK!"
Your Argument about the Story
-----------------------
For reasons other then how it's told I'm not the biggest fan of Black and White's story, but so far it's had the deepest storyline of any of the main series and for what it was I did not mind it. I don't think adding anymore would help it, Pokemon's story has been simple enough with simple enough goals that any player can understand what they need to do and how to do it. Adding anything to it makes the game more about the characters and story then the gameplay, building your unique team, and the resulting interaction with other players.
Your Argument about the Multiple Versions
-----------------------
Finally while I'd agree it is annoying to still run the whole two version gimmick it's understandable why they still do it. It was meant to make the Pokemon game more sociable, and to put it bluntly if you need to buy both copies of the game just to get all the Pokemon then you need some more Pokemon playing friends. Gamefreak can probably remedy this by adding a randomizing code into one version that restricts some Pokemon from being found in one cartridge and not the other, but I can see that annoying some people that have a system going with a friend where they each get different versions to help each other collect all the Pokemon. In short, selling 2 versions is the middle ground between forcing too much social interaction between players and not forcing enough. If you want to be able to finish the game on your own there are plenty of single player games out there for you, but Pokemon isn't one of them, it's primarily a multiplayer experience.
Your other Arguments
-----------------------
Everything else you said, about evolution and leveling, I can tell you right off the bat that wouldn't be good for the series. Instant evolution is just lazy, if you really wanted to collect all the Pokemon in the game the least you can do is take on the challenge of training them. If not then you can just tell yourself "It's just a game, I don't really have to collect them all." The argument that it's too easy to power level with only three Pokemon makes me wonder how much of the game you understand. The concept of leveling in the Pokemon Titles is easy enough for a kid to comprehend and I'm sure there are Pokemon that can wipe out almost all opposition, but all it takes is one decent level type advantage to derail everything. That is one of those aspects at the core of the tried and true Pokemon gamplay.
And as for your last bit about not being able to catch fainted Pokemon, I agree it can be annoying but changing that would just make things far too easy. Especially with Legendaries.
My issues with the Pokemon Titles
-----------------------
As for Problems I DO see with the Pokemon games, I can agree there are some and I've had my own ideas on the subject.
Story:
-----------------------
For starters, while the stories have been good I feel they're drifting into the realm of over-the-top antics. To summarize, the first game was about a young boy who set out to train a team of Pokemon in order to collect badges and battle the greatest trainers of the region. Along the way he had several run-ins with Team Rocket, a Mafia-like group who's intentions were to gain power through the use of Pokemon, including experimenting on them and stealing Rare and Powerful Pokemon from other trainers. Using the trust and friendship between himself and his Pokemon, the boy put an end to Team Rocket's abuse of Pokemon and finished his quest to be the best.
Cut to Black and White, there the story is about a young boy who starts an adventure with two of his friends, all three with different goals. Cheren want's to be the strongest, Bianca just want inner strength, and you have the same goals as the boy from the first game. In your travels you watch as Cheren and Bianca learn valuable lessons about strength (an aspect I really enjoyed) and had several run-ins with a almost cultist party of Anti-Trainer activists run by an insane king who wants to rule the world by conditioning his heir to hate humans and assume the role of a prophesied Hero who's meant to change the world. Turns out then that you are the chosen Hero and you have a climactic battle with Legendary Dragons at the top of a Castle that rose from the ground.
If you get what I"m going for (without even having to mention the Legendary battles involving the Earth, Sea, Air, Time, Space, Shadow Dimensions, and eventually the God of everything), it's that Pokemon has taken a leap from a story more rooted in Science Fiction with story aspects and a majority of Pokemon that have explainable, almost reality resembling qualities, to something so bizarre, over-the-top, and mythological. While I'm sure some prefer it this way, the reason a lot of people jeer the newer Pokemon designs are due to this over-the-top nature they've adopted over the years. It's made for some good games, but it's gone too far.
Gameplay
-----------------------
The gameplay is solid, but one thing is for sure; after a certain point it becomes tedious and the challenge is lost without taking it to league matches. Gamefreak has done something in the past that I'd wish they'd expand upon and that's Re-Battles.
I find myself, most times, retraining a new team after the Elite 4. New Pokemon, Pokemon from other games of mine, that whole deal. Except the way they have it now this is very, very tedious and it results in nothing more then a grind until I'm of a level where I can refight the Elite 4 or any of the pre-determined re-battle opponents.
What I'd like to see though, are Re-Battlable Gym leaders and trainers with area based levels and teams that will change based on the Pokemon in your party. That way, you can basically replay the game with a new team anytime after the Elite 4. The story will be over, but at least the grind of wanting a new team will be eased and you can actually give yourself a challenge while training your new team beyond wandering into slightly higher level grass.
On a second note, I don't like the BP system. If anything, that's a little tedious (Goes back to the it's too tedious to even waste my time on it.)
2 Pokemon = 1 Battle
7 Battles = 3 BP
16 BP= 1 Good Item
35.3 Battles = 1 Good Item
At least 8 Good Items to collect
282.4 Battles = 8 Good Items
Improvements I'd like to see in future Pokemon Titles
-----------------------
Was going to call this part innovations, but innovations are rarely discussed prior to release as innovations by creative teams (They refer to them as "Good Ideas").
Branching, Choice Driven Events.
-----------------------
What better way to make an RPG game more about the player is to have choices that yield responsive results. From as small as getting different items for different answers (Something they already do) to having that choice affect some else down the line resulting in a slightly different outcome for characters. Replayability is one thing, but it'd also make the player feel more in control of their character and influence more of what the next step is then just what Pokemon you used to get there.
There are Major plot points that, arguably, you shouldn't miss. IIt's hard to picture a game where you can completely ignore the Villainous team, but maybe a nice dynamic would be if you decide to ignore them and not meddle in their affairs they decide to come after you for your powerful Pokemon you've been training. Things like that can really add a bit of "What will happen next" and "did I influence this" to a game who's story has been pretty predictable up to this point.
Sub-Abilities
-----------------------
This is nitpicky, but I wanted to add this. This mainly involves the ability "Levitate" and how I think it, and a few other abilities possibly, be added only as sub-abilities that a few Pokemon have.
For those unaware, Levitate is a special ability that makes your Pokemon immune to Ground Type attacks. It's normally given to Pokemon who, based on their sprite, do not come into contact with the ground or and hover above it (as in the case of ghosts). These Pokemon look like then can, and should, be able to avoid attacks like Dig and Earthquake, yet without the ability they're sunk. This results in them only being able to have this ability and no others, which in a lot of strategies the choice of ability is a major factor in move set. Without multiple possible abilities, Pokemon like Flygon end up with very little quality move sets. Like I said, nitpicky.
Summery
To summarize, since I went into this post not expecting to write a whole article on the subject;
Your Arguments and my Retort:
-----------------------
1.Turn Based vs. Real Time is a Personal Preference and Turn Based just happens to be more suitable for Portable Titles.
2. The story is simple enough to where it's more vital that you focus on your influence in the game rather then the NPC characters influence.
3. Multiple Versions foster Socializing in a more controlled manner then randomly selecting catchable Pokemon or making all Pokemon catchable.
4. Instant Leveling is Lazy, and if you're not motivated to try leveling then just repeat to yourself it's just a game you don't really need to.
5. Higher Levels don't always equal advantage in battle, though most times they do to offer a easier, fun experience to smaller children.
Problems I see with the games:
-----------------------
1. The stories and Pokemon are getting way to Over-The-Top and should return to more grounded roots.
2. Previous trainers and gyms not able to be re-battled or only able to be rebattled with super powerful Pokemon..
3. The tedious BP system.
Things I'd like to see included:
-----------------------
1. Choice influenced story elements.
2. Sub-Abilities are a small change that we can do without but would make my Flygon cooler.
Extra Note
-----------------------
Is it just me, or is it weird that as soon as you beat the Elite 4 in Black and White, the strongest Trainers in the Unova Region, the next route has you battling trainers with Pokemon 20 levels above the Elite 4. So much for them being the strongest.
-----------------------
This is usually the attitude that takes a game and runs it straight into the ground. No offense to your ideas, they are great ideas that work in games, but if implemented into Pokemon they wouldn't be as cool as you think they'd be. Plus, most of your ideas aren't even innovative, they're methods other games use quite commonly and for one I'm very happy Gamefreak haven't taken some of them on.
To start, I agree whole heartedly to this post on page 1.
It's all true, kinda like the new MLP cartoon you are not the game's demographic. The developers can add in little nudges here and there to acknowledge your existence, cause they just love your admiration for their hard work, but at the end of the day they are making a game aimed at school kids to whom things like easy to understand gameplay, flexible story, and the social aspect of trading is essential to the game.Plinglebob said:
Your argument about the Battle System.
-----------------------
I would actually love to see a Pokemon game that had real time battles. One of my dream games would be a SSB style brawler with every single Pokemon a playable character. Their 4 moves could be mapped to the B button while the A button takes care of weaker variations of Bite, Tackle, Scratch, and so-forth. That being said though, the Pokemon games are about training your Pokemon to battle each other, not taking control over them and battling with them as avatars in some weird anime knockoff. Pokemon games are still one of my favorite Turn Based RPGs, and one of the few I can play without getting bored (The others included Golden Sun).
Also, turn based is a lot more suitable for a portable game. You can look away from the game for a moment without worry or having to pause during Turn Based Combat if you're out and about, need to catch a train, or someone yells "DUCK!"
Your Argument about the Story
-----------------------
For reasons other then how it's told I'm not the biggest fan of Black and White's story, but so far it's had the deepest storyline of any of the main series and for what it was I did not mind it. I don't think adding anymore would help it, Pokemon's story has been simple enough with simple enough goals that any player can understand what they need to do and how to do it. Adding anything to it makes the game more about the characters and story then the gameplay, building your unique team, and the resulting interaction with other players.
Your Argument about the Multiple Versions
-----------------------
Finally while I'd agree it is annoying to still run the whole two version gimmick it's understandable why they still do it. It was meant to make the Pokemon game more sociable, and to put it bluntly if you need to buy both copies of the game just to get all the Pokemon then you need some more Pokemon playing friends. Gamefreak can probably remedy this by adding a randomizing code into one version that restricts some Pokemon from being found in one cartridge and not the other, but I can see that annoying some people that have a system going with a friend where they each get different versions to help each other collect all the Pokemon. In short, selling 2 versions is the middle ground between forcing too much social interaction between players and not forcing enough. If you want to be able to finish the game on your own there are plenty of single player games out there for you, but Pokemon isn't one of them, it's primarily a multiplayer experience.
Your other Arguments
-----------------------
Everything else you said, about evolution and leveling, I can tell you right off the bat that wouldn't be good for the series. Instant evolution is just lazy, if you really wanted to collect all the Pokemon in the game the least you can do is take on the challenge of training them. If not then you can just tell yourself "It's just a game, I don't really have to collect them all." The argument that it's too easy to power level with only three Pokemon makes me wonder how much of the game you understand. The concept of leveling in the Pokemon Titles is easy enough for a kid to comprehend and I'm sure there are Pokemon that can wipe out almost all opposition, but all it takes is one decent level type advantage to derail everything. That is one of those aspects at the core of the tried and true Pokemon gamplay.
And as for your last bit about not being able to catch fainted Pokemon, I agree it can be annoying but changing that would just make things far too easy. Especially with Legendaries.
My issues with the Pokemon Titles
-----------------------
As for Problems I DO see with the Pokemon games, I can agree there are some and I've had my own ideas on the subject.
Story:
-----------------------
For starters, while the stories have been good I feel they're drifting into the realm of over-the-top antics. To summarize, the first game was about a young boy who set out to train a team of Pokemon in order to collect badges and battle the greatest trainers of the region. Along the way he had several run-ins with Team Rocket, a Mafia-like group who's intentions were to gain power through the use of Pokemon, including experimenting on them and stealing Rare and Powerful Pokemon from other trainers. Using the trust and friendship between himself and his Pokemon, the boy put an end to Team Rocket's abuse of Pokemon and finished his quest to be the best.
Cut to Black and White, there the story is about a young boy who starts an adventure with two of his friends, all three with different goals. Cheren want's to be the strongest, Bianca just want inner strength, and you have the same goals as the boy from the first game. In your travels you watch as Cheren and Bianca learn valuable lessons about strength (an aspect I really enjoyed) and had several run-ins with a almost cultist party of Anti-Trainer activists run by an insane king who wants to rule the world by conditioning his heir to hate humans and assume the role of a prophesied Hero who's meant to change the world. Turns out then that you are the chosen Hero and you have a climactic battle with Legendary Dragons at the top of a Castle that rose from the ground.
If you get what I"m going for (without even having to mention the Legendary battles involving the Earth, Sea, Air, Time, Space, Shadow Dimensions, and eventually the God of everything), it's that Pokemon has taken a leap from a story more rooted in Science Fiction with story aspects and a majority of Pokemon that have explainable, almost reality resembling qualities, to something so bizarre, over-the-top, and mythological. While I'm sure some prefer it this way, the reason a lot of people jeer the newer Pokemon designs are due to this over-the-top nature they've adopted over the years. It's made for some good games, but it's gone too far.
Gameplay
-----------------------
The gameplay is solid, but one thing is for sure; after a certain point it becomes tedious and the challenge is lost without taking it to league matches. Gamefreak has done something in the past that I'd wish they'd expand upon and that's Re-Battles.
I find myself, most times, retraining a new team after the Elite 4. New Pokemon, Pokemon from other games of mine, that whole deal. Except the way they have it now this is very, very tedious and it results in nothing more then a grind until I'm of a level where I can refight the Elite 4 or any of the pre-determined re-battle opponents.
What I'd like to see though, are Re-Battlable Gym leaders and trainers with area based levels and teams that will change based on the Pokemon in your party. That way, you can basically replay the game with a new team anytime after the Elite 4. The story will be over, but at least the grind of wanting a new team will be eased and you can actually give yourself a challenge while training your new team beyond wandering into slightly higher level grass.
On a second note, I don't like the BP system. If anything, that's a little tedious (Goes back to the it's too tedious to even waste my time on it.)
2 Pokemon = 1 Battle
7 Battles = 3 BP
16 BP= 1 Good Item
35.3 Battles = 1 Good Item
At least 8 Good Items to collect
282.4 Battles = 8 Good Items
Improvements I'd like to see in future Pokemon Titles
-----------------------
Was going to call this part innovations, but innovations are rarely discussed prior to release as innovations by creative teams (They refer to them as "Good Ideas").
Branching, Choice Driven Events.
-----------------------
What better way to make an RPG game more about the player is to have choices that yield responsive results. From as small as getting different items for different answers (Something they already do) to having that choice affect some else down the line resulting in a slightly different outcome for characters. Replayability is one thing, but it'd also make the player feel more in control of their character and influence more of what the next step is then just what Pokemon you used to get there.
There are Major plot points that, arguably, you shouldn't miss. IIt's hard to picture a game where you can completely ignore the Villainous team, but maybe a nice dynamic would be if you decide to ignore them and not meddle in their affairs they decide to come after you for your powerful Pokemon you've been training. Things like that can really add a bit of "What will happen next" and "did I influence this" to a game who's story has been pretty predictable up to this point.
Sub-Abilities
-----------------------
This is nitpicky, but I wanted to add this. This mainly involves the ability "Levitate" and how I think it, and a few other abilities possibly, be added only as sub-abilities that a few Pokemon have.
For those unaware, Levitate is a special ability that makes your Pokemon immune to Ground Type attacks. It's normally given to Pokemon who, based on their sprite, do not come into contact with the ground or and hover above it (as in the case of ghosts). These Pokemon look like then can, and should, be able to avoid attacks like Dig and Earthquake, yet without the ability they're sunk. This results in them only being able to have this ability and no others, which in a lot of strategies the choice of ability is a major factor in move set. Without multiple possible abilities, Pokemon like Flygon end up with very little quality move sets. Like I said, nitpicky.
Summery
To summarize, since I went into this post not expecting to write a whole article on the subject;
Your Arguments and my Retort:
-----------------------
1.Turn Based vs. Real Time is a Personal Preference and Turn Based just happens to be more suitable for Portable Titles.
2. The story is simple enough to where it's more vital that you focus on your influence in the game rather then the NPC characters influence.
3. Multiple Versions foster Socializing in a more controlled manner then randomly selecting catchable Pokemon or making all Pokemon catchable.
4. Instant Leveling is Lazy, and if you're not motivated to try leveling then just repeat to yourself it's just a game you don't really need to.
5. Higher Levels don't always equal advantage in battle, though most times they do to offer a easier, fun experience to smaller children.
Problems I see with the games:
-----------------------
1. The stories and Pokemon are getting way to Over-The-Top and should return to more grounded roots.
2. Previous trainers and gyms not able to be re-battled or only able to be rebattled with super powerful Pokemon..
3. The tedious BP system.
Things I'd like to see included:
-----------------------
1. Choice influenced story elements.
2. Sub-Abilities are a small change that we can do without but would make my Flygon cooler.
Extra Note
-----------------------
Is it just me, or is it weird that as soon as you beat the Elite 4 in Black and White, the strongest Trainers in the Unova Region, the next route has you battling trainers with Pokemon 20 levels above the Elite 4. So much for them being the strongest.
Since this is a very long post, I'll summarize it up here.
1. A good story would help, but it'd need to stay simple.
2. No, it should build on the formula as its foundation.
3. It already does this, even if it is primarily for kids.
4. They should continue to trim the grind down, but your idea wouldn't be a good way to do it.
5. No
6. That would just make the world less engaging. The second point is more interesting, but I'll address that at the end.
7. Huge balance issues.
8. Waste of time and money that could be spent on other areas.
9. I like the social aspects.
And...I guess I'll spoiler tag the rest to make this a little smaller for those not interested.
1. Story
2. Formula
3. Primarily for kids
4. The grind
They do need to continue to decrease the grind, but, to be blunt, what you're suggesting would be boring.
5. Turn-based battles
6. Capturing pokemon and encounter rates
The second half of your paragraph...that's an interesting idea, but it'd probably either make those battles too common or be such a small change that you'd hardly notice. The first would destroy that great feeling you get when you FINALLY get that pokemon you've been hunting, and the second would be a lot of work for something that wouldn't be a huge change.
Also, it'd continue a problem that I'll discuss later, near the bottom of this post.
7. More starters
Also, the starter is usually a pretty powerful pokemon, so you could end up replacing the cornerstone for your team with a wimp. Too hard to balance.
8. Evolve, damn it!
The problem here is that every pokemon would need a complete move set, since you could theoretically have a lvl. 5 Blastoise. This would be too hard to balance, and it would simply be a waste of development time that could better be spent on taking the grind down another notch, finding a way to make the world seem more alive (I'll elaborate on this in a minute), or making any number of smaller updates.
And, like your starter suggestion, this would be overwhelming for newcomers. Not to mention if a hypothetical Pokemon game were to include your suggestions, then this and a nearly unlimited starter selection would be a total game breaker...there'd be no way to implement these and then balance them.
9. Social aspects...or charging you twice, depending on the person.
How I think Pokemon could continue to improve:
Completely off topic, but why are people assuming the third installment of this generation will be called Grey? It wasn't Red/Blue/Purple, or Gold/Silver/Electrum...
1. A good story would help, but it'd need to stay simple.
2. No, it should build on the formula as its foundation.
3. It already does this, even if it is primarily for kids.
4. They should continue to trim the grind down, but your idea wouldn't be a good way to do it.
5. No
6. That would just make the world less engaging. The second point is more interesting, but I'll address that at the end.
7. Huge balance issues.
8. Waste of time and money that could be spent on other areas.
9. I like the social aspects.
And...I guess I'll spoiler tag the rest to make this a little smaller for those not interested.
1. Story
Fair enough. A good story couldn't possibly hurt a game. However, you should keep in mind that "simple" and "bad" are not synonyms; I don't think a twisty epic tale would really fit with the series. In fact, the perfect Pokemon plot would probably be very similar to the first two generations. Too much plot would detract from a game like these. I agree with your general idea...a good story would, of course, be beneficial, but I don't think it needs to be filled with plot twists, moral choices, or alternate endings. Sometimes, simplicity just works.immortalfrieza said:
2. Formula
I'm going to have to start the completely disagreeing here. If they were to focus on the plot, then the Pokemon formula should be its foundation. If you think about, the basic formula of the series is both a right of passage for this world's youth and the basis of its economy. I'd really like a plot to expand on the basic idea and do some world building (without getting in the way of the gameplay, of course), while I'd probably not enjoy one that threw away tradition for the sake of "innovation". Change for the sake of change isn't a good design philosophy.
3. Primarily for kids
And the disagreeing continues. They may not be the Pixar of gaming, but if they didn't have anything to appeal to an older audience, then that audience would be a tiny minority. Since we're talking about it right now, that obviously isn't the case. You may no longer find it appealing, but it's not like you have to stay with the series. Besides, the kiddyness is part of its charm.
4. The grind
Or they could just continue with that mechanic they implemented in the latest generation. XP works on a scale now--you get more of it for battling Pokemon above your level. So far, it seems like grinding isn't taking nearly as long.
They do need to continue to decrease the grind, but, to be blunt, what you're suggesting would be boring.
5. Turn-based battles
No. Like I said earlier, change for the sake of change is a bad idea. The combat system is the foundation for practically the entire game. If the battles are too slow, then you can turn the animations off. If they aren't engaging enough for you, you can try to get more involved with the strategy in the game. If that doesn't do it for you, then there's plenty of other options for your entertainment.
6. Capturing pokemon and encounter rates
While that would technically make a lot more sense, it'd also remove any strategy from a battle with a pokemon you want to capture, and it would destroy the choice that is present in every wild battle. Basically, it'd make it too easy and less involved.
The second half of your paragraph...that's an interesting idea, but it'd probably either make those battles too common or be such a small change that you'd hardly notice. The first would destroy that great feeling you get when you FINALLY get that pokemon you've been hunting, and the second would be a lot of work for something that wouldn't be a huge change.
Also, it'd continue a problem that I'll discuss later, near the bottom of this post.
7. More starters
The problem here is that you could accidentally run into the same issue that plagued players who chose Charmander in Red and Blue--you could end up with nothing that can reasonably defeat the first gym, and we all know how much fun a grind like that is. You could even accidentally make the game impossible to complete ("Hey, Abra, that looks pretty cool...what's 'teleport'?"). Of course, we'd know better than to do that, but would a little kid who's getting his first pokemon game know better? And how could a newcomer possibly choose from over 600 possible starters? Too many options at once can be overwhelming.
Also, the starter is usually a pretty powerful pokemon, so you could end up replacing the cornerstone for your team with a wimp. Too hard to balance.
8. Evolve, damn it!
Well, anyone who just wants to evolve a pokemon probably wouldn't care about the time investment, since the only reason other than wanting to use (in which case, the player would be leveling it) is to complete the pokedex.
The problem here is that every pokemon would need a complete move set, since you could theoretically have a lvl. 5 Blastoise. This would be too hard to balance, and it would simply be a waste of development time that could better be spent on taking the grind down another notch, finding a way to make the world seem more alive (I'll elaborate on this in a minute), or making any number of smaller updates.
And, like your starter suggestion, this would be overwhelming for newcomers. Not to mention if a hypothetical Pokemon game were to include your suggestions, then this and a nearly unlimited starter selection would be a total game breaker...there'd be no way to implement these and then balance them.
9. Social aspects...or charging you twice, depending on the person.
The borderline mandatory social aspect, like its kiddyness, is part of the games' charm for me. Even if you don't know anyone else who plays, there's always the online options for trading. There is absolutely no need to own multiple versions of a generation unless you actually want to. For those who do want to own multiple versions, they can spend their money how they want, and it's a bigger paycheck for the developers. I see no problem here.
How I think Pokemon could continue to improve:
I think the biggest problem is how the world feels like it's there to serve you. You ever wonder why every trainer you meet in the wilderness has a completely healthy team? It's like the only time NPCs battle is when you're there to witness it. Your suggestion about rare pokemon would continue this trend. "I've beaten a hundred Pidgeys, now that Clefairy is practically mathematically guaranteed to attack!"
One change that would go a long way to fix this would be to have pre-damaged HP bars for wild pokemon and trainers in the wilderness. Buff their HP by the same amount that they loss to keep the challenge consistent (instead of having 70 HP, they have 95, but start with 25 damage). Maybe it could even be randomly generated (the only way it could possibly work for wild pokemon), so trainers you revisit won't have the same health as the last battle. Of course, gym trainers and Team Whatever members would have a fully healed team, since they fight you on their own terms most of the time.
This isn't exclusive to Pokemon, and I'd like to see more games do something like this. HP bars are an easy way to make it feel like NPCs actually do something when you're not there, but the only time I've ever seen it used is in World of Warcraft.
Other than that, here's a few short issues that could be addressed:
1. Continue to trim the grind down, but don't eliminate it. While grinding isn't inherently fun, it is part of the team-raising experience, and it should always be there...just to a slightly smaller extent.
2. Better dialogue writing--this series could easily become a spiritual successor to Earthbound, if they put in the right effort.
3. The ability to challenge NPC trainers. Walk to someone in the wilderness that you've already defeated, talk to him or her, and be given the option to challenge the NPC to another battle. Of course, it'd have to be after you leave the area so they would have been able to heal their team while you weren't looking. Not only would this give you another way to interact in the world, instead of just the world interacting with you, it'd also help kick the grind down since trainer battles give more XP.
4. The pokedex should have more information. Why do I need to capture something to tell its type? And why doesn't the pokedex contain an in-game move list for pokemon I have captured? Both of those would be useful features. While it's certainly not some huge problem, this would be very convenient.
5. As someone suggested earlier, the HMs are a problem. Gen.V has addressed this by decreasing the HM numbers, but I think they could go a little further by condensing the abilities. As you earn certain badges, Surf could also work like Whirlpool, Waterfall, and Dive; fly could double as defog, and strength could also include rock smash and rock climb. This would give them a grand total of four HMs (poor cut...only one use), assuming Flash stays where it is, and it wouldn't reduce the number of environmental road blocks.
Notice how these wouldn't change the core series for the sake of change, but instead improve on what's already there. When innovating a series, designers shouldn't ignore what came earlier; they should use it as a foundation.
One change that would go a long way to fix this would be to have pre-damaged HP bars for wild pokemon and trainers in the wilderness. Buff their HP by the same amount that they loss to keep the challenge consistent (instead of having 70 HP, they have 95, but start with 25 damage). Maybe it could even be randomly generated (the only way it could possibly work for wild pokemon), so trainers you revisit won't have the same health as the last battle. Of course, gym trainers and Team Whatever members would have a fully healed team, since they fight you on their own terms most of the time.
This isn't exclusive to Pokemon, and I'd like to see more games do something like this. HP bars are an easy way to make it feel like NPCs actually do something when you're not there, but the only time I've ever seen it used is in World of Warcraft.
Other than that, here's a few short issues that could be addressed:
1. Continue to trim the grind down, but don't eliminate it. While grinding isn't inherently fun, it is part of the team-raising experience, and it should always be there...just to a slightly smaller extent.
2. Better dialogue writing--this series could easily become a spiritual successor to Earthbound, if they put in the right effort.
3. The ability to challenge NPC trainers. Walk to someone in the wilderness that you've already defeated, talk to him or her, and be given the option to challenge the NPC to another battle. Of course, it'd have to be after you leave the area so they would have been able to heal their team while you weren't looking. Not only would this give you another way to interact in the world, instead of just the world interacting with you, it'd also help kick the grind down since trainer battles give more XP.
4. The pokedex should have more information. Why do I need to capture something to tell its type? And why doesn't the pokedex contain an in-game move list for pokemon I have captured? Both of those would be useful features. While it's certainly not some huge problem, this would be very convenient.
5. As someone suggested earlier, the HMs are a problem. Gen.V has addressed this by decreasing the HM numbers, but I think they could go a little further by condensing the abilities. As you earn certain badges, Surf could also work like Whirlpool, Waterfall, and Dive; fly could double as defog, and strength could also include rock smash and rock climb. This would give them a grand total of four HMs (poor cut...only one use), assuming Flash stays where it is, and it wouldn't reduce the number of environmental road blocks.
Notice how these wouldn't change the core series for the sake of change, but instead improve on what's already there. When innovating a series, designers shouldn't ignore what came earlier; they should use it as a foundation.
Completely off topic, but why are people assuming the third installment of this generation will be called Grey? It wasn't Red/Blue/Purple, or Gold/Silver/Electrum...
Hey, it's like I said to immortalfrieza, it's survived 15 years so far with little innovation while there were THOUSANDS of innovations in games happening all around them, and they keep being more successful. I doubt they'll have any issues for at least two more generations.black_knight1337 said:
EDIT:
*sigh*black_knight1337 said:
Oh, wow, kid. You really don't get the idea of "opposing positions" do you?
You aren't as bad as the OP, but stop being a dick to people who just disagree with you and supply opposing arguments. You really think everyone is going to agree with you guys when you're obviously in the minority? If you keep acting like this, then your changes DEFINITELY won't happen.
I think people need to stop comparing pokemon to other rpgs and start comparing it to other multiplayer based games.
The single player to pokemon has always been meh, Like call of duty.
The multi player is great, like (arguably) call of duty
Alot of your changed listed not only ruin the franchise but would only "improve(as I use the term as loosely as possible)" the single player. The multiplayer side of things would be ruined.
The single player to pokemon has always been meh, Like call of duty.
The multi player is great, like (arguably) call of duty
Alot of your changed listed not only ruin the franchise but would only "improve(as I use the term as loosely as possible)" the single player. The multiplayer side of things would be ruined.
Speak for yourself, I love the single player of Pokemon AND Call of Dutypretentiousname01 said:
But that definitely is the minority (around my age for Pokemon, altogether for Call of Duty), I'll admit that.
It's why I've said again and again and again and again and again, and so have millions of other people-
Make. A. Pokemon. M. M. O. R. P. G. You. Stupid. Nintendo.
Seriously. It's a fucking money hose. I don't get what they're waiting for.
Oh it needs to change alright - but if you've got a proven golden goose that lays the golden eggs, why try to mess with it? Pokemon is successful - it's main market is kids who haven't played too many of the previous games due to their young age. You don't have to innovate when your audience doesn't demand it.
I could think of a number of innovatios that Pokemon could make off the top of my head: Different starter elements, something other than gym leaders and team-rocket knock-offs, a change to the progression of the story... there's a lot they could do.
But they don't. Why? Because they don't need to and because it would be hard.
Now, the Pokemon series HAS introduced new elements over time. But it's a slow, slow process. Apart from fancier graphics, I expect the next pokemon game for the 3DS will follow the same basic formula: Fire, Water, Grass starters, Professor with a tree name, protagonist living with mum alone in house, rival (friendly or not) met in first town, you'll fight youngsters on the first road, you'll get the Fly HM around the 4th or 5th badge, there'll be a victory road of sorts, Elite Four + Boss (almost certainly your friend, rival or mysterios recurring character), yadda yadda yadda.
The formula works on kids. Every year there are new kids who are just getting into Pokemon for the first time. The fact that the newer games are very similar to older games doesn't matter to them. So nothing will drastically change. Sorry, get used to Pokemon being Pokemon.
I could think of a number of innovatios that Pokemon could make off the top of my head: Different starter elements, something other than gym leaders and team-rocket knock-offs, a change to the progression of the story... there's a lot they could do.
But they don't. Why? Because they don't need to and because it would be hard.
Now, the Pokemon series HAS introduced new elements over time. But it's a slow, slow process. Apart from fancier graphics, I expect the next pokemon game for the 3DS will follow the same basic formula: Fire, Water, Grass starters, Professor with a tree name, protagonist living with mum alone in house, rival (friendly or not) met in first town, you'll fight youngsters on the first road, you'll get the Fly HM around the 4th or 5th badge, there'll be a victory road of sorts, Elite Four + Boss (almost certainly your friend, rival or mysterios recurring character), yadda yadda yadda.
The formula works on kids. Every year there are new kids who are just getting into Pokemon for the first time. The fact that the newer games are very similar to older games doesn't matter to them. So nothing will drastically change. Sorry, get used to Pokemon being Pokemon.
I'm having a hard time judging wether you are serious or not.
This is pokemon for god sakes. It seems to be the only thing in the world that DOESNT need to innovate, because it will sell like hot cakes, no matter how or when it gets to where it needs to be.
Pokemon actually seems to have the right idea. Like mario, metroid, zelda and all those other good things, they've discovered a unique formula that gives plenty of satisfaction to all. Changing that would cause so much more chaos than NOT changing anything. It would be like arbitrarily throwing in a finishing move mechanic in super mario bros, where you jump on the goombas so hard their eyes shoot out, in true mortal kombat brutality style. Or, suddenly having Link have to enter a space ship to take down Gannons Space strike teams.
Like i said; pokemon has a formula that works for nintendo AND for the vast majority of players. It will probably stay the way it is until the end of time, so you might as well just get comfortable with it.
Also, why would you give the person acsess to whoever they want, the allow them the force them to level up? Whats to stop a player from choosing something that becomes an absolute beast, and just evolving them straight away? And what would you do about Eevee? Or Tyrouge?
This is pokemon for god sakes. It seems to be the only thing in the world that DOESNT need to innovate, because it will sell like hot cakes, no matter how or when it gets to where it needs to be.
Pokemon actually seems to have the right idea. Like mario, metroid, zelda and all those other good things, they've discovered a unique formula that gives plenty of satisfaction to all. Changing that would cause so much more chaos than NOT changing anything. It would be like arbitrarily throwing in a finishing move mechanic in super mario bros, where you jump on the goombas so hard their eyes shoot out, in true mortal kombat brutality style. Or, suddenly having Link have to enter a space ship to take down Gannons Space strike teams.
Like i said; pokemon has a formula that works for nintendo AND for the vast majority of players. It will probably stay the way it is until the end of time, so you might as well just get comfortable with it.
Also, why would you give the person acsess to whoever they want, the allow them the force them to level up? Whats to stop a player from choosing something that becomes an absolute beast, and just evolving them straight away? And what would you do about Eevee? Or Tyrouge?
The idea sounds good on paper, and it'd be fantastic to see it done successfully, but from my experience with WoW, the "hardcore" community can ruin the experience for others. Throw that in with how serious the Pokemon metagamers are, and...the result may not be pretty.ZeroMachine said:
Hmm...yup, that'd do it. Nintendo, make game freak make this, then sign me up for your next money printer!ZeroMachine said: